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An I overreacting to think that a swearing teacher is unprofessional?

(54 Posts)
mysterio1 Mon 18-Mar-19 18:11:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MitziK Mon 18-Mar-19 20:53:12

@ponyprincess strangely, I can differentiate between a child swearing in my presence because they're upset/stressed or swearing at me. So it's a daily occurrence to adopt strategic deafness. If I (and others) didn't do that, there would be constant threads on here complaining that somebody's child had been put in internal exclusion when they were just upset and it isn't fair that they should be punished when they didn't actually swear at the teacher/couldn't help it/don't believe it.

I haven't ever sworn at a child (or in their presence), but I can completely understand how somebody not experienced in classroom management left to deal with an entire class of teenagers on cover could be pushed into lapsing.

Personally, I think the OP should be more miffed that they stuck a TA on whole class cover because it would be cheap, rather than somebody on PPA covering or bringing in an experienced Cover Supervisor/supply teacher. But that's a whole different can of worms.

dirtystinkyrats Mon 18-Mar-19 20:58:33

No an adult shouldn't swear in school. And if he has lost it so much that he is swearing then he definitely shouldn't be in charge of a class again.

HaventGotAllDay Mon 18-Mar-19 21:03:27

I am invariably horrified at what MN deems teachers' appropriate behaviour to be.
This time, despite the misleading title, and whatever the context, I would probably take it further as it is way unprofessional and inappropriate. Mind you, I'd also make very sure it was true first.

ponyprincess Mon 18-Mar-19 21:10:03

onthenaughtystepagain I do hear what you are saying and I get that people swear and children will hear it

But I think there is a double standard that it is okay for the TA not the teacher (both are in positions of authority)

It is okay for a stressed TA but of a child told a TA to follow fuck off?

Everyone does get frustrated but the OP asked is this professional - - no I think

Is it understandable? I agree we all can get frustrated and express but I do still think if that was the case the TA should acknowledge the language was not appropriate in the context

ponyprincess Mon 18-Mar-19 21:15:28

MitziK the examples.given were aimed at the students - not oh fuck I stapled my finger as a PP said.

It is unprofessional so while maybe understandable I think it is fair to raise the issue

If it is a matter of schools mangaging classrooms and TAs not having training then isn't it better to highlight this ao they get support?

LJdorothy Mon 18-Mar-19 21:32:07

I don't think anybody was saying that it's okay for a TA to swear. But they are not teachers and so the OP's title is wrong. I think teachers on MN are perhaps a little tired of being slagged off, and it's even more annoying when no teachers are involved in this scenario and they are still being called unprofessional.

ponyprincess Mon 18-Mar-19 21:40:03

LJdorothy my comments were about how children should be respected in school and not a comment on the OP's title or engaging in a slagging of teachers or TA's

Cherrysoup Mon 18-Mar-19 21:43:01

Strictly no f bombs in front of kids. Bloody is my max, so I’d expect a complaint if I said fuck.

LJdorothy Mon 18-Mar-19 21:44:01

I wasn't commenting on your comment, ponyprincess! TAs shouldn't swear in front of pupils. I agree completely with that.

FunkyKingston Mon 18-Mar-19 21:48:34

What a little telltale tit your 14 year old is being about this. They were sworn at or told to go fuck themselves or that they were useless fuckers, but heard a TA use 'fuck' in a sentence. I doubt that any 14 year old will faint from hearing fuck or its derivatives in conversation. I find it impossible to believe anyone in the class room took genuine offence.

No the TA shouldn't have sworn, but I'm more askance at your offspring trying to land the TA in trouble by running to tell you about it.

Blissx Mon 18-Mar-19 21:48:57

Exactly LJDorothy

ponyprincess. No, it is not ok to say fuck in front of a class. Of course it isn’t and if you read back, no one has out and out said this. But teachers are sick of the MN threads about teachers (there have been many in the past few days alone) and this one isn’t even about a teacher! It can’t be ‘unprofessional’ if it’s not about a profession. It is unacceptable though, as is. TA covering a class but it isn’t even clear if the OP has brought the swearing up with the school or is even true.

Aragog Mon 18-Mar-19 21:50:40

Not acceptable for any adult to be swearing in hearing distance of school children, regardless of their role in school. Doesn't matter if they are unpaid volunteers or the headteacher. It's just not in and is totally unacceptable. It would be a potential disciplinary incident in every school I've worked in, though various factors would be taken into consideration regarding the result of the chat with the head teacher.

MitziK Mon 18-Mar-19 21:51:11

They won't get support. They'll get a bollocking if it's true (if not formal disciplinary action). And still be dumped on by having to cover for a qualified teacher/experienced cover staff.

Having said that, I'd at least have spoken to the TA or their line manager if I'd heard it - if it was exactly as told here - but 'training' will not materialise - training budgets are largely seen as being for teaching staff, not support.

Mind you, I do remember the investigation where one child and his mates swore blind to his mother that I'd told him to Fuck Off when he was just sitting and minding his own business. Unfortunately for him (and his Mum, because she was incredibly embarrassed about it afterwards after the fuss she'd made), others in the class confirmed that what actually happened is that I had walked into a mass pile on he'd instigated and I'd told him very clearly to move back whilst retrieving his victim from underneath a table. Teenagers can be right gits when hunting in packs - so is it worth 'trying to get the TA some training' when it might not be true?

ponyprincess Mon 18-Mar-19 22:17:31

LJdorothy
Sorry I misinterpreted

ponyprincess Mon 18-Mar-19 22:20:15

Blissx

I am not teacher bashing

I expect adults in a work environment to be 'professional'

I understand the difference between teachers and TA's but I still expect a basic level of behaviour of adults to children

Mammajay Mon 18-Mar-19 22:27:22

Absolutely wrong. A TA has a role as a significant adult and should understand boundaries.

ponyprincess Mon 18-Mar-19 22:58:27

MitziK teenagers are lying gits are they?

And TAs seem to be some unprofessional group who are stressed and unable to act respectfully to children but what is the point of giving them support /training?

I am surprised at the views on this thread!

PerfumeandOranges Mon 18-Mar-19 23:22:47

It is not appropriate for a teacher, or a TA, to swear in front of children.

If other professions can refrain when on duty, then so should teachers. One would be amazed to hear a judge shout 'fuck' at a defendant or a GP to declare he was 'fucking tired'.

If teaching staff, including TAs think they are an exception to this, then it won't be long before the profession slips even further down the rung.

MitziK Mon 18-Mar-19 23:40:02

Are you deliberately misinterpreting things?

SLT don't use a limited training budget on TAs if they can avoid it. They prefer to use it on Teaching Staff and TAs/other support get what's strictly necessary (and preferably provided for free by somebody in the school so it costs them nothing beyond some photocopying). It's not fair, but SLT don't have to be fair. They just have to decide what they will or won't fund from the budget - and they will inevitably choose to fund Teaching Staff training over Support Staff.

TAs are not teachers. They shouldn't be expected to perform the role of a teacher. It's unfair to them - and I'm sure most parents would prefer their kids were taught by somebody who has actually qualified to teach.

Being a TA is not being employed in a profession. It's being a TA. It is possible to gain qualifications, but in reality, it's as open to somebody with a couple of GCSEs as it is somebody with a degree. And of course they're under stress when they're expected to perform the role of a completely different, highly qualified member of staff. Just like I'd be pretty stressed (and prone to swearing) if my ability to generally keep 30 kids from tearing lumps out of one another meant I was put in in charge of a UN Peacekeeping brigade in an active warzone.

What I actually said was that teenagers can be right gits. And yes, they can lie. Normally it's to their Mums, but it can be to staff - some are so convincing, they get their Mums to come in and shout the odds over how the nasty teacher was picking on them when they weren't even there - right up til the point at which Mum gets shown the CCTV of precious child being the instigator. I'm sure they are absolutely lovely at home, but stick a bunch of them in together, give them a sniff of vulnerability from having an unqualified person put in charge, and they can and do act completely differently.

Moreover, a complaint wouldn't mean the TA received extra training, it would mean that they potentially lost their barely above minimum wage job. Considering the same kids whose parents are so offended by the word Fuck have probably used it, Cunt and Piss at least 30 times that day, it seems a bit rich that there are such strong reactions to it allegedly being said.

Gth1234 Tue 19-Mar-19 00:48:04

swearing anybody is unprofessional. I hate hearing bad language. Far too much on TV. It's one of many things that's leading to a coarsening of society.

FunkyKingston Tue 19-Mar-19 02:18:15

swearing anybody is unprofessional. I hate hearing bad language. Far too much on TV. It's one of many things that's leading to a coarsening of society

Where the fuck did you escape from, a regency costume drama? In my experience it is only dullminded prudes who object to swearing on principle.

Learning how to swear imaginatively and in an appropriate way is one of the best lessons a young person can learn, and sometimes a fuck, a bastard or a cunt is needed for emphasis in a way that bother or fiddlesticks won't do. My love of the English language was deepened by my expanding vocabulary of profane words. I'm a hisrory lecturer by trade and my favourite piece of 19th century vernacular is the term cunt-struck to descibe a man obsessed with sex. Bawdy language has been around with us for a long tine and to think society has become corsened by bad language is counterfactual bollocks, a glance at Chaucer or a look at any of the songs actually sung by troops during the world wars would tell you otherwise.

ArmchairTraveller Tue 19-Mar-19 06:06:24

Not a teacher.
Not OK swear in front of children. Parents shouldn’t do it either, they are their child’s most significant role model.

Qwertylass Tue 19-Mar-19 06:09:38

If that was my T.A I wouldn't have her in my class. That is disgusting.

Qwertylass Tue 19-Mar-19 06:29:18

I was recently told to piss off by a yr 5 girl which is disgraceful. This however takes the biscuit and I bet she will be the first one to reprimand a child for swearing.

Blissx Tue 19-Mar-19 06:29:31

MitziK teenagers are lying gits are they?

Ah. The usual response on these threads. hmm Again, all humans have the potential to lie and all that has been said is that this should be investigated, yes, to hear the other side of the story because yes, teenagers have the capacity to lie/embellish the truth (as do adults).

And TAs seem to be some unprofessional group who are stressed and unable to act respectfully to children but what is the point of giving them support /training?
And again, you are deliberately not reading the points posters are making when they are explaining the differences. Empathy is an important trait in people, you might want to fine some. Doesn’t mean that it is ok to swear in front of young people (Thought I should highlight that again for you). These threads annoy me because they always bring out posters like this. Can only see things as black or white.

I am surprised at the views on this thread!

I’m not. Always happens. And the fact the OP has not returned after deliberately providing such a click bait title, casts huge doubt over the whole thing anyway.

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