Talk

Advanced search

Man doing my pedicure

(280 Posts)
eyesbiggerthanstomach Tue 12-Mar-19 16:24:53

I'm having a rubbish day so maybe am being super sensitive but not sure. There is a nail bar I regularly go to. A few men work there but it's mainly women. Usually one of the women does my pedicure. I have had one or two of the men do it in the past too.

Anyway, am currently getting one done by a man and I'm feeling really uncomfortable. I can't explain why. Maybe because he is slow and so every touch feels like it's lasting ages but I'm not enjoying it.

Is it unreasonable to specify a woman does it in future?

Crunchycrunchycrunchy Fri 15-Mar-19 07:23:38

that's fine but you need to tell them? You could've swapped with your OH?

I'm replying to this mega late but in this instance I couldn't, as he was called in about 10 mins before me, otherwise I would have

WhyTho Fri 15-Mar-19 01:24:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

itsbritneybiatches Thu 14-Mar-19 23:53:41

If I'm being touched then I respect the right to be touched by who I am comfortable with.
Male female, not sure, non defined.

Whatever they identify with - who cares. But if they are touching me, I respect the right to decline or accept that.

Weetabixandshreddies Thu 14-Mar-19 23:15:47

Are you in an occupation where you touch people’s bodies for extended periods of time? I have been and I get it, and I was never offended.

I have been, yes. Nursing on a male urological ward - very intimate care including catheterising men. No one ever objected, although there were so few male nurses, and even fewer qualified to do what we did that I don't know what would have happened had a man objected.

And I'm not conflating protected characteristics. If it's ok to refuse someone on the basis of their sex, because you have a personal reason for doing so, why could you not have an equally personal reason for refusing on other grounds too?

I understand that, particularly as a customer, you have the choice over who touches you or not. No one is going to force you to have a pedicure against your will. I'm just wondering at the legal position if someone were to make their reasons clear.

waterlego Thu 14-Mar-19 19:37:57

And it doesn’t need to be explained, justified or apologised for.

waterlego Thu 14-Mar-19 19:35:38

When it comes to bodies and parts of bodies, it’s not for others to decide what sort of touch is intimate or personal and which isn’t. It is entirely the decision of the person whose body it is. I would be extremely uncomfortable with any stranger touching my feet because I find it intensely intimate. For that reason I probably would never have a pedicure at all and so the sex of the therapist would be irrelevant, but it is absolutely not unreasonable for anyone to decline a service involving physical touch from someone of the opposite sex (or the same sex for that matter, if that person has their own reasons for feeling uncomfortable about that).

JessicaWakefieldSVH Thu 14-Mar-19 18:05:45

I would be annoyed if a man did it to me so that's how I'm viewing it I guess

Are you in an occupation where you touch people’s bodies for extended periods of time? I have been and I get it, and I was never offended.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Thu 14-Mar-19 18:04:38

*Surely skin colour is also a biological difference?

Not comparable to sex differences. You sound like a TRA.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Thu 14-Mar-19 18:03:25

I can discriminate over who touches me, my body isn't subject to equality law

As I understand it, that is true under current laws.

NKFell Thu 14-Mar-19 18:03:21

Weetabix if you understand for changing rooms then you surely see why comparing race is invalid in this context?

teyem Thu 14-Mar-19 17:44:30

I totally get changing rooms etc or massages, and so does the EA.

How can you 'get it' about changing rooms on the one hand and then argue from the position that conflates all difference under equality laws on the other?

Weetabixandshreddies Thu 14-Mar-19 17:40:52

Surely skin colour is also a biological difference?

I totally get changing rooms etc or massages, and so does the EA.

I suppose I apply situations where I have been asked if I'm ok with a man treating me. I've never been asked by my dentist, podiatrist etc.

I don't know. I would be annoyed if a man did it to me so that's how I'm viewing it I guess

Bluestitch Thu 14-Mar-19 17:29:34

I'm pretty sure it isn't illegal for me to request a female beautician. I'm not going to be prosecuted for refusing to let a man give me a pedicure. The salon may have legal obligations as employers but I can discriminate over who touches me, my body isn't subject to equality law.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Thu 14-Mar-19 17:26:26

And of course sex can be compared to race, religion or sexual orientation.

No it can’t. Sex is an inherent biological difference. That’s why we have sex separated spaces- or do you think it’s discriminating for men and women not to undress in front of each other? It’s very normal and non-controversial in my life experience, for people to want health and beauty care involving physical touching, from the same sex as them.
I’ve never had an issue asking for a female to undertake beauty or massage treatments of any kind. Most people understand and respect it.

Weetabixandshreddies Thu 14-Mar-19 17:17:41

The thing is though we have the EA which makes it illegal to discriminate on the grounds of protected characteristics except under certain conditions.

If you unofficially widen those you can't just do so on the basis of women's boundaries (unless the Act is changed). And of course sex can be compared to race, religion or sexual orientation. Would you accept someone refusing a person because they were black or gay, even if they thought they had very good reason for doing so?

Would it be ok the other way round? Could a woman refuse to give a pedicure to a man? By the way, I'm not talking about intimate treatments or procedures.

NKFell Thu 14-Mar-19 16:16:55

I don't feel comfortable with women's boundaries being compared to racism. I'm a black woman and already feel on the back foot for being a woman and being black. I don't think sexual orientation can be compared either and I think it's ridiculous to do so.

The car instructor comparison is also strange, there are plenty of driving schools who advertise as being a female instructor because some women would rather not go off in a car with a male stranger. Thankfully all the men in my life completely understand that.

Fowles94 Thu 14-Mar-19 15:42:06

If you don't want people to be sensitive maybe request one of the females by name. It's not unreasonable at all.

Bluestitch Thu 14-Mar-19 15:23:42

Tbh it's never come up when I've been having other beauty treatments, it's always been women working there anyway. And when you have a regular salon you often book with a specific person. I'd refuse a man, it's as simple as that really.

Weetabixandshreddies Thu 14-Mar-19 15:16:33

Bluestitch

A massage is different though isn't it? Surely that would come under exemptions for privacy, decency or a personal service because you are undressed.

Weetabixandshreddies Thu 14-Mar-19 15:14:30

I think that’s a false equivalency.

Why?

Bluestitch Thu 14-Mar-19 14:39:38

Has anyone ever tested the EA over a matter like this?

I've requested a female masseuse more than once. I'm not sure how the equality act would really be 'tested' anyway. If a customer's request was refused they'd presumably just go elsewhere.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Thu 14-Mar-19 14:36:17

I don't think anyone would advise refusing a pedicure based on race, religion or sexual orientation would they?
I think that’s a false equivalency.

Weetabixandshreddies Thu 14-Mar-19 14:28:03

I wouldn't insist anyone has to be touched. I just think it's quite shakey ground to advise that someone can refuse on the grounds of a protected characteristic, excepting the for intimate procedures etc.

I don't think anyone would advise refusing a pedicure based on race, religion or sexual orientation would they?

Would no one be concerned if someone refused to let a hairdresser cut their because she was female?

JessicaWakefieldSVH Thu 14-Mar-19 14:19:30

Would a pedicure really count as reasons of privacy or decency or a personal service?

I think so, I believe Beaty treatments would come under that. The fact is, you’re being touched in an area that you don’t normally get touched by other people you don’t know. I honestly can’t imagine why anyone would want to force anyone to be touched by a male if they weren’t comfortable with it, either with intimate care or with what is supposed to be a relaxing service. Do you really want to go down the, well you can say no to be touched there but not here, route? I trained as a masseuse but haven’t practiced in many years. I would never question a client who came in and requested just males or just females to give them, say, reflexology. Nor refuse their custom. You never know what has lead to their discomfort.

Why not send an email to the equality commission if it’s peaked your interest.

youknowmedontyou Thu 14-Mar-19 14:07:56

Would a pedicure really count as reasons of privacy or decency or a personal service?

I would say not! It's a pedicure, not an internal examination, anything above the ankle can be covered.

Join the discussion

Registering is free, quick, and means you can join in the discussion, watch threads, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Get started »