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Man doing my pedicure

(280 Posts)
eyesbiggerthanstomach Tue 12-Mar-19 16:24:53

I'm having a rubbish day so maybe am being super sensitive but not sure. There is a nail bar I regularly go to. A few men work there but it's mainly women. Usually one of the women does my pedicure. I have had one or two of the men do it in the past too.

Anyway, am currently getting one done by a man and I'm feeling really uncomfortable. I can't explain why. Maybe because he is slow and so every touch feels like it's lasting ages but I'm not enjoying it.

Is it unreasonable to specify a woman does it in future?

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 14:20:01

You don't get to decide what is justifiable when it comes to other people's bodies though.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 14:20:06

I will back right over wrong not matter what the sex.

It’s wrong to make women feel like they can’t set boundaries on who touches their body, and calling them misandrists who want men drowned is unintelligent misogynistic nonsense.

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 14:20:58

It’s wrong to make women feel like they can’t set boundaries on who touches their body, and calling them misandrists who want men drowned is unintelligent misogynistic nonsense.

It's wrong to make ANYONE! It's not just women! FFS!

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 14:21:47

it's a bit late to be complaining about it after the fact

Not quite. If they were to complain to them directly, perhaps. But to acknowledge the discomfort and in future ask for females only is ok. It’s also ok to chat with other women about it.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 14:22:34

It's wrong to make ANYONE! It's not just women! FFS!

I acknowledged that earlier. You however have been arguing the exact opposite! Are you male or female?

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 14:22:39

but given that she presumably realised his gender when he walked over to start the pedicure it's a bit late to be complaining about it after the fact

It's not always that simple though. I've been in a situation before where I attended a medical appointment to find a man would be doing an intimate procedure. I wasn't asked if this was okay and felt nervous and put on the spot. It was an awful experience and now I'm far more assertive but I understand why someone might not feel able to speak up.

Ghanagirl Wed 13-Mar-19 14:23:30

@youknowmedontyou
It’s wrong to touch someone without consent lots of women prefer to have female care givers or even driving instructors etc as they feel more relaxed.
I believe in equality but men are bigger and stronger than women and so it’s often about feeling comfortable.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 14:24:00

Bluestitch Same. I turned up for a medical procedure with an audience of males & as an anxious person wasn’t brave enough to ask them to leave. I now always state my wishes before any medical appointments.

Crunchycrunchycrunchy Wed 13-Mar-19 14:30:41

I don't think this is unreasonable. I don't like having massages by men. I don't for one minute think they are doing anything but their job but it just weirds me out.
I had a massage on my honeymoon at the spa at the hotel. DH was seen in by a female and I was seen in by a bloke. I was so uncomfortable that I really didn't want to undo my bikini top - I don't know why, I just didn't. I undid the halterneck but left it done up round the middle. He undid it when he came back in and I couldn't relax at all. I did put on the feedback card they should ask if females would be ok with a male masseuse as it does mean getting partially undressed.

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 14:32:22

@JessicaWakefieldSVH my sex had nothing to do with you.

My response was based on the OPs question AIBU and yes based on the fact she didn't like technique then yes she was BU.

If she doesn't like men then say! But she didn't!

But to expect a blanket ban on men doing a Professional job is ridiculous!

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 14:33:38

@Crunchycrunchycrunchy that's fine but you need to tell them? You could've swapped with your OH?

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 14:34:58

That's awful Jessica. Women's right to feel comfortable shouldn't depend on them having the confidence to speak out when they are vulnerable and outnumbered. And often in front of the person they don't want touching them too!

DianaPrincessOfThemyscira Wed 13-Mar-19 14:35:43

@youknowmedontyou

No one is calling for blanket ban on men doing certain professions.

No one is saying ‘drown all men at birth’ hmm

The hyperbole is coming from you, when others are simply saying that anyone but women in particular may want this, has the right to ask for a person of a certain sex to carry out what might be considered an intimate action.

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 14:35:49

But to expect a blanket ban on men doing a Professional job is ridiculous!

Where has anybody suggested that?

hopl Wed 13-Mar-19 14:37:36

Can someone please tell me what biscuit is I'm getting confused

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 14:44:26

@DianaPrincessOfThemyscira then they need to just say.....simple!

But OP asked as the only thing she didn't like is his technique. It could've been the same with a woman she didn't like the technique, would it be ok to dismiss all women? Similarly if it was a person of a certain ethnicity would that be ok?

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 14:45:22

The hyperbole is coming from you

^ this

bohemi Wed 13-Mar-19 14:46:07

I need more information about the potato peeling...!!

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 14:46:34

my sex had nothing to do with you.

Feel free not to answer of course, but I’m always surprised when other women call women misandrists for setting boundaries. I suspect you’re Male, and in that case your inability to understand this is not that surprising.

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 14:47:56

I'm not male..... happy now?

I am female but don't feel the same way you do, is that ok?

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 14:48:37

It wasn’t just his technique and the question of requesting females in future was part of the OP’s comments. Don’t pretend it’s just about professional skills. The broader conversation is about being able to request only one sex touches you, and you’ve directly made comments about that point. You’re not even following your own position.

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 14:49:14

@hopl that's people saying OPs post is taking the biscuit! IE it's ridiculous!

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 14:49:43

I am female but don't feel the same way you do, is that ok?

Yes, you can feel anyway you want. You cannot tell other women they’re unreasonable or misandrists for having different boundaries to you, which you’ve repeatedly done. Own it.

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 14:52:51

And you can't tell me I am @JessicaWakefieldSVH which you did first...... so perhaps don't do that?

BabyMoonPie Wed 13-Mar-19 14:53:53

@eyesbiggerthanstomach - of course you can request a woman in future and no explanation to the salon is needed. Now, I have answered your question: please can you provide more info on the potato peeling. It was such a random thing and made me laugh until I cried!

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 14:56:25

youdontknowme Nobody has tried to override your personal boundaries or tell you who you should let touch you. You are the one who has done that, to other women.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 14:58:33

Personally I think YABU. I don't believe we will achieve true equality with this attitude. There are dangerous men out there but deciding a man is creepy based on nothing other than his genitals is uncalled for IMO. He's at work. He's doing his job. He isn't lurking in the shadows or pinching shoes from locket rooms to smell them. He's just at work.
Would you be just as happy if a man refused a dentist or optician because they were female? That would annoy me so I can't be a hypocrite.

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 14:59:46

@Bluestitch based on technique by ONE man I think the OP is BU.

End of....

And @JessicaWakefieldSVH started the personal attack on me and that goes beyond my boundaries!

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 15:00:26

@Biancadelrioisback agreed!! Excellent post!

hopl Wed 13-Mar-19 15:00:26

@youknowmedontyou thank you!grin

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 15:05:28

youknowmedontyou People can read the thread and your posts. You even accused those who would be uncomfortable being touched by a man of wanting them dead. You can try to rewrite yourself as the reasonable one but your nonsense is there in black and white.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:08:35

*youknowmedontyou

I objected to you telling a woman she was not entitled to set her own boundaries, I said it was disappointing originally and you proceeded to get very aggressive about it, and quite OTT with regards to the idea women could request online females to touch them. At no time have I told you you could not set your own boundaries or that you shouldn’t let men give you pedicures or anything else for that matter. As you continued your NAMALT and respond with outrageous comments like ‘ let’s drown all men at birth’ in response to women not feeling comfortable with men touching them, I strongly objected.

I’m really not sure how you could possibly frame this conversation as anyone telling you who you should allow to touch you, or that you’ve been personally attacked here. You’re actually making fun of a conversation where women are supporting each other’s boundary settings by mocking us above with your ‘that’s against my boundaries’ comment. You’re behaving in a very unconstructive and misogynistic manner. That’s not an attack on you, it’s a response to your repeated attempts to make women feel bad for not wanting to be touched by men.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:10:16

There are dangerous men out there but deciding a man is creepy based on nothing other than his genitals is uncalled for IMO.

Well it’s good that hasn’t happened then. Only wanting women to perform care or services that require them to touch our body, is not ‘deciding a man is creepy based on his genitals’. Again this is another attempt to make women feel pressured into being touched by men when they don’t want to be. It’s quite gross to witness.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:11:12

You can try to rewrite yourself as the reasonable one but your nonsense is there in black and white

Indeed it is. Do they think people aren’t smart enough to read the thread and see what’s happening?! Silliness

YepImafraidImgivingmyopinion Wed 13-Mar-19 15:14:12

Did he pop a toe in his mouth, or hold eye contact whilst scrubbing off your dead foot skin?
Maybe he really really fancies you, are you extremely fanciable??

Or maybe he's just doing his job....

Omzlas Wed 13-Mar-19 15:15:32

Pay someone. To touch my feet? No thanks. I don't care if it's a man or a woman. I'm out.

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 15:16:10

@JessicaWakefieldSVH
YABU - you're unhappy with HIS technique, that's fine don't have him again. But does this exclude all men? Would you exclude all women because of the technique of one?

My original post nothing wrong with it but you were disappointed in it, like I need any approval!

Anyway I'm off now, presume OP will change salons or just say no men please!

GreigLaidlawsbarofsoap Wed 13-Mar-19 15:18:56

@Ignoremeiaminvisible its not just women who should be able work in whatever profession they chose but men can also.

Yes the man can work in this industry nobody is saying he can't! But the paying customer absolutely has the right to decide who is doing her appt and touching her. She can request a woman and if they won't oblige, she can choose to go elsewhere. He won't lose his job, as I'm sure there are plenty more mensrightsactivists customers like you who would be totally happy to have him do their feet.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:22:44

My original post nothing wrong with it

Yes it does, as it misses the point of the comments that followed which made it more than technique. It also does not excuse all your other comments which are here for everyone to read.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:23:22

@JessicaWakefieldSVH she feels uncomfortable because he is a man and would rather a female do this in future. If I was doing my job and a client requested a man because I made them feel uncomfortable I would be deeply hurt and would believe they were being sexist. Would you not?

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:26:32

Again this is another attempt to make women feel pressured into being touched by men when they don’t want to be. It’s quite gross to witness.

This is also so very pathetic. In no way are women being pressured into being touched by men. People are calling out sexism. Women, in this situation, are not being strapped down and forced to endure men groping them. I do liken this to people not wanting to be touched by black people.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:27:43

Would you not? No I would not. I would never make someone else’s personal boundaries about who touches them, about me.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:30:37

This is also so very pathetic. In no way are women being pressured into being touched by men. People are calling out sexism. Women, in this situation, are not being strapped down and forced to endure men groping them. I do liken this to people not wanting to be touched by black people.

It’s not pathetic to discuss why women in particular have issues with males they don’t know touching them. It is not remotely sexist and it’s pathetic to suggest such a thing. We’ve had a lengthy discussion on this with plenty of women explaining why many of us only have females touch us, so I’m not doing so again. As a mixed race person, likening to this racism makes my blood boil. Men’s behaviour is the cause of this. BLAME THEM.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:31:21

You are creating pressure by entering this discussion and telling women they are sexist if they won’t let men touch them. It’s a disgusting thing to say.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:34:31

Ah okay so shall I blame my 2yo son? My 8yo nephew? They're male after all. Let's hope they don't try and work in the beauty industry. And as a black woman, I will liken it to race because to me, it is. Tell me I'm wrong all you like but you don't to make that decision I'm afraid. Saying you don't want someone to do their job for you because you don't like their genitals is sexist.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:35:34

Jessica tbh I find you hatred of all men more disgusting than my want for equality. Even international women's Day this year was focussed around balance.

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 15:36:34

Bianca am I sexist if I don't want a man to massage me, or give me a smear test?

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:37:06

May I ask what it is you do for a living?

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:37:45

Blue what is your reason for not wanting a man to do either of those things?

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 15:38:02

Jessica tbh I find you hatred of all men more disgusting than my want for equality. Even international women's Day this year was focussed around balance.

^^ this!

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 15:39:24

I don't feel comfortable being touched by men. I don't consent to men giving me intimate examinations and I would find a man massaging my body distressing, so the opposite of how they are supposed to make you feel.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:40:25

What's the reason for that blue?

qazxc Wed 13-Mar-19 15:43:35

Reading your op, it sounds like you don't have a problem with it being a man per se, just that you are not liking the way that he is doing it.
Is there a person there that you do like the way they do your pedicure? Just ask for them next time.
Although I would reconsider going to a salon where they peel vegetables at the manicure table full stop, if I where you.

GreigLaidlawsbarofsoap Wed 13-Mar-19 15:43:35

@Bluestitch you don't have to give a "reason" you don't have to justify anything to these posters. If you don't want it, you don't want it. End of. No poster has the right to poke and prod into your personal history to justify their opinion.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:43:44

tbh I find you hatred of all men more disgusting than my want for equality.

You are truly being ridiculous to level that at me because I don’t want men to perform healthcare on me. How dare you. I’ve been married to a wonderful man for 30 years and I have a lot of lovely male friends. It is not hateful to not want men touching me. I have been abused as a child, raped as a teen, harrased many times as an adult. Don’t tell me I hate men.

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 15:45:21

I'm not going to go into the reasons why because I don't believe you are asking in good faith. I don't think for a second that somebody who is clearly as articulate as you doesn't have the emotional intelligence to understand a whole variety of reasons why women may not want to be touched intimately by men. You expecting me to spell my specific reasons out to decide if my consent is valid is downright creepy.

PrettyBelle Wed 13-Mar-19 15:45:51

I haven't had a pedicure done by a male but if I did and it made me uncomfortable - for whatever my own personal reason - I would request a different specialist next time. Ditto with male masseurs. My body, my rules. I would not have the same reaction to a black person so this had nothing to do with racism.

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 15:46:05

Thank you Greig.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:46:08

GreigLaidlawsbarofsoap it was a question. I've hardly got her tied down forcing her to answer. She doesn't have to, obviously, but I was curious why, if it's got nothing to do with judging people by the genitals, all men make women uncomfortable.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:46:20

You expecting me to spell my specific reasons out to decide if my consent is valid is downright creepy.

Yes it is. Both poster are leaving disingenuous and creepy comments which are not helpful or constructive.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:47:37

98% of sexual assaults are committed by men.

Skin colour is irrelevant to sexual crimes. I mean, why does that need saying to a WOC for goodness sake.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:47:49

Bluestitch no what I was trying to do was establish whether your discomfort to men, no matter who they are or what they've done/not done is fair.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:48:36

no what I was trying to do was establish whether your discomfort to men, no matter who they are or what they've done/not done is fair.

Women don’t need a reason to say no. You are not the decider of whether or not someone has the right to bodily autonomy.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:49:26

JessicaWakefieldSVH unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide whether I liken this to race. I do. Based on my past experiences. However because I disagree with you, my opinion is less valid apparently.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:50:18

You are not the decider of whether or not someone has the right to bodily autonomy. Never said I was, simply trying to engage in a debate on a public forum

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 15:50:51

no what I was trying to do was establish whether your discomfort to men, no matter who they are or what they've done/not done is fair

How is that different to what I said? Which was 'You expecting me to spell my specific reasons out to decide if my consent is valid is downright creepy.'

You want me to explain myself so that you can decide if my right to consent to who touches me intimately is fair. Get lost.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:51:54

you don't get to decide whether I liken this to race. I do. Based on my past experiences.

You can certainly write whatever you want. And I can also respond to it and dismiss the analogy. There’s a very good reason why many women are fearful of men. Its valid. Racism is not valid.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:52:51

Blue I don't 'expect' you to do anything. it's called a question. You have every right to decline to answer, which you have.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 15:53:19

The question is creepy and intrusive.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:53:23

Racism is not valid.

Really?

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 15:57:32

Men’s behaviour is the cause of this. BLAME THEM

Blame all men. Blame your beloved husband and your good male friends. I'm confused how you don't understand how I interpreted this as a hatred of men.

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 15:58:41

Men’s behaviour is the cause of this. BLAME THEM

All of them? Without exception?

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 16:00:09

Nobody is blaming all men. But the behaviour of many, has led to many women needing to protect themselves from further trauma by having female only care. What can’t you understand about that? Why no acknowledgement of my awful experiences?

Because you are disingenuous and are likely an MRA. It’s disgusting to come here and berate women who’ve had experiences which are difficult and scary and then need to request females only for their own comfort. Ffs.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 16:02:12

My friend is a physio, he never takes it personally when women request females at work. Ever. He’s sad they have had bad experiences and angry at other men for doing that to them. I mean, wtf is wrong with people that we are still getting this NAMALT. Do they have signs on their foreheads stating which ones are fetishists or rapists??? NO. That’s why we set boundaries. It’s why we have safeguarding for children too, or do you have a problem with that as well??

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 16:02:34

Actually Bianca I asked if I should be able to decline a massage or intimate examination by a man, your response was to ask me why, to see if my reasons are 'fair'. Are you unable to answer if women have the right to consent unless you are given a satisfactory explanation?

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 16:03:09

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 16:03:45

@JessicaWakefieldSVH what's an MRA and what's NAMALT?

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 16:04:02

Oh I think you know

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 16:06:21

You literally wrote Men’s behaviour is the cause of this. BLAME THEM then got upset when I said that I thought you had a hatred of men. I am not a MRA. I am part of a huge organisation fighting for equality. I want a better future for my son so that when he walks down the street people don't just assume he will hurt them or rape them. Did you know that someone told me it was a shame he was a black male? Their reason was that people will always cross the street to get away from him. He's 2. He is already condemned

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 16:06:32

No I genuinely don't! I'll go google?

PrettyBelle Wed 13-Mar-19 16:07:02

I wish people stopped giving safety concerns as a reason of women having boundaries with men. I am pretty sure most men are safe and don't have any sinister intentions. I may still prefer not exposing myself to men and not letting them touch me. Why do you think in airports body search is performed by same-sex officers? Obviously no male officer is going to do anything wrong in a professional setting with so many people around. This rule does acknowledge the preference to physical boundaries. And this preference is absolutely legitimate.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 16:08:22

Jessica put your pitchfork down.

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 16:08:35

I have a son too. I'm raising him not to think it's sexist that women have boundaries.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 16:09:07

Men’s behaviour is the cause of this. BLAME THEM

Yes I did. It’s accurate. Too many men abuse and harass women. That’s also accurate. Replying with #notallmen is an attempt to dismiss and minimise the harm. I’m not going to engage in a conversation with someone who is insisting women setting boundaries around physical touching is an attack on ‘all men’. It’s vile.

JenniferJareau Wed 13-Mar-19 16:09:14

I have had men do my pedicure but I wasn't bothered as they wear plastic gloves (so do the women).

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 16:09:54

I am pretty sure most men are safe and don't have any sinister intentions.

How do we know which ones do?

youknowmedontyou Wed 13-Mar-19 16:11:08

NAMALT - agree they're not!

MRA - I get that now.

You do come across as genuinely disliking all men @JessicaWakefieldSVH, maybe due to your history.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 16:12:42

You do come across as genuinely disliking all men @JessicaWakefieldSVH, maybe due to your history.

I mean you just get worse in your victim blaming. I’m married to a man. I have close Male friends. I am not hateful because I don’t want men I don’t know giving me massages or smear tests. That’s not hate.

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 16:14:02

2nd rule of misogyny- Women saying no to men is a hate crime

origamiunicorn Wed 13-Mar-19 16:15:29

PPs saying a man can give as good a pedi as a woman is missing the point. OP if you feel uncomfortable with it you can request a woman, that's your choice.

I'm sure men are just as good gynaes as women but I always choose a woman for these types of appointments as I wouldn't be comfortable with a man. It's no different. Your body, your opinion, your choice.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 16:16:03

2nd rule of misogyny- Women saying no to men is a hate crime

^ this

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 16:19:37

A popular animal rescuer, Male, has made the point in several of his rescues that he often has to get a female to rescue dogs because they’re afraid of him due to the fact most animal abusers are men. So they consider this, and do what’s best for the animal and have a female attend. The rescuer never takes it personally, never questions or makes it about him. Are the dogs guilty of a hate crime?

Also agree it’s not just about abuse, sometimes it’s just comfort and people wanting members of the same sex for certain things.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 16:22:35

Look, we disagree. You clearly won't see things from my POV and I won't see them from yours. I don't agree with tarring all men with the same brush. I don't agree with blaming all men for the crimes of others. I don't see how we will ever achieve equality if we do that.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 16:24:39

I don't expect many dogs are as intelligent as people. He's also rescuing a presumably frightened and potentially dangerous animal. OP was having a pedicure.

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 16:24:47

Do you believe women should have the right to refuse a smear test from a man Bianca?

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 16:26:37

I believe they should have the right.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 16:30:18

So women can’t be frightened of men touching them? It’s just hate? Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with this! My goodness.

So you believe they should have the right, you just think exercising it is preventing ‘equality’. Right, ok...

Bluestitch Wed 13-Mar-19 16:30:24

Good, so does the NHS.

Biancadelrioisback Wed 13-Mar-19 16:32:15

Good, so does the NHS

Good, so do I.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Wed 13-Mar-19 16:32:43

You also think women who do hate all men.

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