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To be disappointed that people who should know better are minimising grooming?

(273 Posts)
GunpowderGelatine Mon 11-Mar-19 19:16:22

After watching the Leaving Neverland documentary, in which I 100% believe the victims (I mean come on MJ was the most obvious pedophile ever!) I posted a link to a Guardian article that stated that if MJ was alive they'd be sure a jury these days would find him guilty. I accompanied with "I believe the victims". I don't usually post these kinds of things on social media but I'm disappointed that so many people on my friends list have bleated on about his innocence whilst admitting they haven't watched the documentary.

A friend commented to say that both the boys in the documentary previously stated they'd never been touched by MJ and are therefore liars. When I replied to essentially say that the power of grooming, they were coerced into lying for the man who abused them but who they also love, she replied saying it's BS, they're after money. This friend is a "superfan". She's also a year 2 teacher. She teaches children the same age as Jackson's victims, and I'm shocked that she's denying the effects of grooming. I'm extremely tempted to ask her if one of her pupils said they were sleeping in the same bed as a perfect stranger, a single man who is successful and buys them presents and gives them envelopes of cash, would she make a safeguarding referral?

I guess I'm so disappointed that people are still deluded and dazzled because he was a legendary musician - as if being good at your job and being an abuser are mutually exclusive. But I certainly expected better from an infant teacher sad

x2boys Mon 11-Mar-19 19:21:02

I have watched the documentary and found it incredibly disturbing viewing,I think if either of them are lying than they are very convincing.liars,but some fans just can't beleive it

GunpowderGelatine Mon 11-Mar-19 19:23:53

x2boys if they are lying than them, their mums, wives and siblings all need to be handed Oscars for best actor because no part of me doubted any of them. Well except for the part Jimmy's mum said she "danced when she heard MJ died because he can't hurt any more children" - I think at this point she's trying to save face a little and that's how she probably thinks she should have reacted

Mammyloveswine Mon 11-Mar-19 19:25:19

Totally agree with you OP

formerbabe Mon 11-Mar-19 19:27:54

Yanbu...I believe them.

x2boys Mon 11-Mar-19 19:29:18

And the fact the both implied they blamed their parents in part for what happened,if it didn't happen why would the mothers appear on t v accepting some of the blame for allowing the situation?

SheRaTheAllPowerful Mon 11-Mar-19 19:30:07

Have you watched the Oprah interview on YouTube? James Safechuck is so broken it’s just awful, I totally believe them.

StrumpersPlunkett Mon 11-Mar-19 19:30:55

I totally agree with you.
I work in a primary school and a few weeks ago a 5 year old came in with a big diving watch on his wrist. A gift from one of daddy’s friends for coming round and being his special boy.
There were forms filled in and our family liaison worker was involved in finding out if there was anything to worry about.

Can’t imagine hearing him say he had a sleepover in the same bed, kissed on the mouth and was his special friend. It makes me sick to think of it.

PtahNeith Mon 11-Mar-19 19:30:59

I wouldn't have held my tongue with your friend. She's ignorant and dangerous. Although that wouldn't have been my starting response to her.

I find it as demoralising as when any other high profile sexual assault case highlights our toxic culture and I have to listen to people I had previously assumed to possess more than two brain cells passionately spouting damaging garbage about how "real victims" would behave or what a "real rape" looks like or "he's been proven innocent" or whatever other ignorant nonsense they come out with.

GunpowderGelatine Mon 11-Mar-19 19:31:16

I have SheRa and I seeped for him. Such strong men and yes he looks broken. They still so clearly have demons, how people can think that creep is innocent is absolutely beyond me

GunpowderGelatine Mon 11-Mar-19 19:31:31

*weeped not seeped 🙄

Siameasy Mon 11-Mar-19 19:31:43

Yanbu. It was very compelling. Why would they lie and put their families through that? Wade was pretty much estranged from his mum by the end of it and his wife had refused the mum access to the child. Why would you fabricate all that?

It’s now cringingly obvious what was going on. Who lets their 7 year old share a bed with a random bloke

Wacko groomed not only the kids not only the families but friggin’ all of us. We all thought we knew him didn’t we?!

GunpowderGelatine Mon 11-Mar-19 19:33:06

YY Ptah I'm a "real" victim of sexual abuse too and I am grateful for these brave people who are willing to carry the torch for survivors everywhere

BlueCornishPixie Mon 11-Mar-19 19:39:14

Realistically I have never met an adult man who was child like enough to share a bed with young children innocently unless they have severe learning difficulties.
And MJ did not have severe learning difficulties. He is literally the only adult man on the planet who has this mysterious 'child like" personality which means he is a fully functioning adult yet the mind and complete innocence of a child.

Come on! We know he shared a bed with multiple young children (almost exclusively boys), we know he groomed them. There's not really an innocent explanation for that even without the 4 people who have accused him of it!

And at the end of the day no one who's defending him actually knows him. They have no idea what he was truelly like so why are they so adamant he is innocent?

peoplearepeople Mon 11-Mar-19 19:53:24

I agree 100% with you op. This is something that has really upset me about people's views on the documentary. I have honestly begun to wonder if there is something missing in some people's brains that means that they just can't understand or empathise with the nature of the grooming that went on. I feel like between Leaving Neverland and also Oprah's show it was made very clear that it is an ongoing "seduction" of sorts but so many just don't seem to "get it".
I have read so many people saying you need to look at the facts not just these shows and I have. I still believe what these guys say.
The main idiots seem to think that because he didn't abuse every boy he came into contact with (such as Macaulay culkin) he must be innocent. Or that Wade must be lying because he dated Michael's niece for a while ffs. I mean that isn't even relevant and if you understood grooming and listened to what was described to you would understand why maybe he did this. Also you have the ones trying to trip them up over things they said in the past about Micheal. Again just not understanding the long term damage that has been done and how long it takes to even process what happened as abuse.

I rewatched the Martin Bashir doc on Michael last night. (yes I do know the problems with this) and it just horrified me. The fact that this abuse went on for so long was just criminal. It is worth watching if you are interested in the case. Ignore the stupid disclaimer at the start of the video. www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z34BKlCr9o

Also have to agree that James looks like a totally broken man. Whilst he was fragile in Leaving Neverland he seemed very on edge on Oprah. I really hope that he is getting all the help he needs and his family are able to support him. This must have been a huge stain on his marriage. I truly fear for him. sad

OrangeJuiceandArmchairs Mon 11-Mar-19 19:56:44

Urgh. Agree completely.

I remember the Martin Bashir interview.

I remember saying at the time that the parents were guilty of failing to proctect their children.

They wouldn't let their children share the bed with a 40yo plumber.

Lllot5 Mon 11-Mar-19 20:10:49

I too saw the interview with Oprah and I am very worried about James Safechuck he looked absolutely haunted.

kirinm Mon 11-Mar-19 20:19:39

I've not watched the full interview but James looks awful. I hope they are both being supported because the backlash they are receiving is awful in its own right. I feel so sad for them.

thenewaveragebear1983 Mon 11-Mar-19 20:22:04

I found the whole program thoroughly chilling. I agree James Safechuck looked absolutely broken. Based on that documentary I cannot believe anyone thinks he didn't abuse them. My Facebook is also full of people defending MJ and tearing apart his victims testimonies.

What is totally shocking is just how many people were complicit in MJ's abuse of these children. His minders, staff, music industry people, family, and the families of these boys all turned a blind eye to the abuse of those children to him and they facilitated him. While they may not have known the truth, they surely couldn't have denied his relationships with these children were wholly inappropriate and that that in itself was a massive abuse of his status and power over them.

RainbowInACloud Mon 11-Mar-19 20:24:22

Oh gosh I totally agree! I couldn't bring myself to watch it all but have discussed it with some friends who are normally Liberal, like minded people and have been horrified by their response that the boys (now men) have lied previously etc. I've been so surprised that some people still defend him. One friend even tried to send me an article basically denigrating one of the victims. Its probably unfair but I've lost a bit of respect for these friends.

Patroclus Mon 11-Mar-19 20:37:48

I honestly think they know he did it but dont care. they tell themself MJ was a child aswell so its ok.

colouringinpro Mon 11-Mar-19 20:44:06

Completely agree OP. There seems to be minimal understanding of what grooming is, and how kids feel they're in a relationship, may not be aware that anything's wrong.

I can't forget James Safechuck's face sad

freeingNora Mon 11-Mar-19 20:44:33

If you think this is nuts watch the kidnapped in plain sight documentary on Netflix I promise you’ll never look at world the same way

Chosennone Mon 11-Mar-19 20:54:32

Completely agree with you OP.
There needs to be a real societal shift in defining abuse and grooming. Oprah hit the nail on the head with the term 'abuse' it conjours images of fear, bogey men and weird peedos. Child seduction is a clearer description. They loved him, they weren't scared just like the Rotheram/Rochdale scandals. Grooming is manipulative, clecer and normalises the situation.
I work with teenagers who only realise they were abused as children years later when they're taught about it. Wade and James seemed to realise in adult life, through councelling etc
I believe them

PositiveVibez Mon 11-Mar-19 20:56:34

100% agree OP.

I even read on a comments page in the mirror online someone had put that she found it hard to belive a 7 year old would go back for more.

It gave me the rage so bad. Victim blamed a 7yo for fucks sake

People are so deluded when it comes to this paedophile. It beggars belief.

I applaud James and wade. They must have known the backlash would happen, but they needed to tell their story. And people need to hear it.

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