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AIBU to be sad that my DD can’t go on a brownie sleepover?

(1000 Posts)
Only13percentleft Mon 11-Mar-19 15:21:48

NC’d for this as it is identifying.

My DD is a Brownie and loves going each week with her friends. Her Brown Owl has asked if the girls would like to go on a region organised sleepover where lots of Brownies sleepover at a theme park and then have a fun day on the rides together.

A bit of back history first. After receiving the Girlguiding email in September (about the inclusion of trans women/girls in the organisation) I wrote to Girlguiding asking if they would still be offering single sex sleeping arrangements (as they are now a single gender organisation) as I didn’t want my DD to be sharing with the opposite sex on residentials. They ‘reassured’ me that they would look to accommodate any request that helps a girl feel more comfortable saying that ‘this has included organising separate facilities for anyone who needs them.’

Fast forward to this sleepover, only 4 months later. I aske d Brown Owl if she could guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation for my DD. She contacted Girlguiding who are organising the sleepover. It has taken them nearly 6 weeks to come back to her but the long and short of it is that they can’t guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation. They’re going to be sleeping in large marquees with lots of different people from different units.

I’m really sad for my DD who now cannot attend this event. She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation and this can’t be guaranteed.

And if anyone asks why I’m posting this now, it is to make other people aware of this situation, especially as sleepovers are being organised for the summer. Girlguiding do not make it explicitly clear that single sex sleeping accommodation is not their default position. They do not say on their permission forms that you may be sleeping in the same space as someone of the opposite sex. Leaders are also not allowed to tell you if this is/is not the case.

10IAR Mon 11-Mar-19 15:23:23

YANBU at all, in fact I'd be furious.

Yet another door closed on safe spaces for girls. It's fucking ludicrous and damaging.

Sexnotgender Mon 11-Mar-19 15:24:12

What a shame! They really need to sort this out so it’s fair and in line with the equalities act.

leafinthewind Mon 11-Mar-19 15:25:59

I take your political point, but I'm not sure I'd do this. The risk of assault by a person of any genital arrangement in a marquee full of kids is very low. I'd risk assess and say my DD could go.

It's a bit like religion in schools. I'm an atheist. I wish schools wouldn't teach my children to pray. But I think my kids would be unhappy if I withdrew them from worship, so I live with it.

I don't make my kids die on my political/theological hills. I assess the risks of different kinds of harm and then cross my fingers that I've made the right decisions for them.

AriadnePersephoneCloud Mon 11-Mar-19 15:27:04

I don't think YABU but I would still let her go unless there is a really strong reason not to. Much as I don't agree with thepolicy change by the girl guides my daughter went to Beavers and slept in with the boys. Unless I'm missing something they are all really young and it wouldn't trouble me at all. That said if there is a particular reason why this would not work for your daughter I would complain to the unit head if I were you.

GruciusMalfoy Mon 11-Mar-19 15:27:30

YANBU, OP. For years and years the guiding association has provided a safe space for girls to grow in confidenceand learn new skills. My daughter won't be attending sleepovers where they can't guarantee she will have her rights upheld for access to a female only space. Single sex spaces are important for many of us.

GassyAss Mon 11-Mar-19 15:27:59

I kinda agree with Leaf about this. I would seem unfair for my child to miss out due to my politics however I would offset this by sending many letters to GG asking for the risk assessment and the equality impact assessment of this policy.

AriadnePersephoneCloud Mon 11-Mar-19 15:28:21

PS I should say, our Beaver leader did offer my aughter the choice between sleeping in with the boys or an alternative. My daughter wanted to stay with her pack.

PinkHeart5914 Mon 11-Mar-19 15:30:42

How old is dd? I can’t see any issue with young children sharing a marquee tbh, I don’t know what age brownies goes up to but unless we are talking teens I really don’t think it’s an issue.

Also presumably adults are present anyway

10IAR Mon 11-Mar-19 15:30:58

A wee while ago it was suggested by an awesome woman named Lisa (also a MNetter) that asking schools if the latest trans guidance conflicted with rights of the child (UN) and safeguarding proceedings rather than challenging the trans ideology. It worked in my LA, so may be worth trying with GG?

Buddytheelf85 Mon 11-Mar-19 15:32:15

I’m really sad for my DD who now cannot attend this event. She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation and this can’t be guaranteed.

I’m not saying your concerns are invalid, but is there a reason why your DD need guaranteed single sex sleeping arrangements more than any other girl does? Or is it that YOU need her to have guaranteed single sex sleeping arrangements?

As I say I do understand your concerns, but equally it seems like a fairly low risk situation to me. The minute risk of her being assaulted by a transwoman has to be weighed up against the very real risk of her being upset at being unable to go on a trip she wanted to go on.

Carriemac Mon 11-Mar-19 15:35:05

I would not let her go, and I would make a fuss about it re safeguarding etc. this needs to be challenged.

WhoGivesADamnForAFlakeyBandit Mon 11-Mar-19 15:36:06

* Unless I'm missing something they are all really young and it wouldn't trouble me at all.* It's the same lack of safeguarding policy for everyone though , isn't it - so anyone who is going, any Guide/helper/leader also will be in with the girls.

10IAR Mon 11-Mar-19 15:37:46

Just to clarify, the guidelines apply to leaders also. Therefore adult male bodied people who will not be disclosed to parents or children.

There are cases of men using these loopholes to access victims. Documented cases.

RiverTam Mon 11-Mar-19 15:39:27

My DD doesn't want to go on sleepovers yet but even if she did I wouldn't allow it, unless it was just her unit as I know them all.

I found it very telling that on a recent sleepover there was going to be a man going with them as a helper and piles of info was given about his sleeping/washing arrangements etc. If he identified as a woman we would have been told nothing.

We know the GG could easily invoke legal exemptions but they have chosen not to. I hope that with the departure of Julie Bentley as CEO they will revisit this. It makes an absolute mockery of what they stand for.

BarbarianMum Mon 11-Mar-19 15:39:31

I dont think leaders (of whatever sex) do sleep in with the children do they? Certainly don't in scouts/cubs/beavers.

Mine both had mixed sleepovers at that age so it wouldnt bother me (or them). By guides, then yes it would be an issue.

thaegumathteth Mon 11-Mar-19 15:42:15

I understand the concern overall however it definitely feels like you’re using your dd to make a political point.

Things that would make me not worry are that they are supervised in a large marquee with loads of people.

Beavers etc don’t separate the boys from the girls - kids are supervised anyways.

I really don’t see the big deal in this particular case tbh.

Nesssie Mon 11-Mar-19 15:45:17

What thaegumathteth said with bells on. You are using your daughter to make a point.
She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation - No, you need her to be in single sex accommodation.

She can go on the brownie sleepover but you are stopping her. YABU

Backstabbath Mon 11-Mar-19 15:46:19

Your being ridiculous just to make a political point.

No reason why she can't go. It is because you won't let her.

RiverTam Mon 11-Mar-19 15:46:48

It matters because parents know that Beavers, Scouts etc are mixed sex, but many parents will have no idea that GG is no longer single sex. There will be many girls who for one reason or another (and they don't have to justify those reasons) do not want to sleep/wash in a mixed sex environment. Lots of parents have chosen GG for that very reason. They do not necessarily know about these changes as GG have been extremely underhand about it all.

sewingbeezer Mon 11-Mar-19 15:47:35

Those saying the OP is unreasonable and putting her political opinions before the interests of her daughter, would you still say that if she was a practising Muslim woman?

Pinkbells Mon 11-Mar-19 15:47:39

I am quite surprised they are putting girls and boys together as my experience of these sleepover events so far has been that they separate them. But I wouldn't cause my kid a huge lot of upset by not letting them go, though. I would ask for reassurance from the leaders that they are supervised at all time.

Nesssie Mon 11-Mar-19 15:50:05

sewingbeezer Yes. I would say that she is putting her religious views before her daughter. Which is fine, but take responsibility and don't blame GG for the daughter being upset that she can't go.

ChariotsofFish Mon 11-Mar-19 15:50:38

They’re brownies though. How old is she, 8? I don’t see the issue with her sharing a marquee with a boy at that age.

SchadenfreudePersonified Mon 11-Mar-19 15:52:06

OP says her DD needs single sex sleeping accommodation - there may be a medical reason for this.

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