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To not understand why bullfighting still happens

(61 Posts)
Holiday1578 Sat 09-Mar-19 14:07:42

Saw an upsetting picture on Twitter of the bullfighter and some official looking people in the front row laughing as a bull collapses and dies
Is anyone from or live in a country where bullfighting still takes place ? I don’t understand why there aren’t enough people against it for it to stop

dudsville Sat 09-Mar-19 14:10:29

While i agree with your sentiment, every awful thing "still" happens. Humans have the capacity to be terrible.

Holiday1578 Sat 09-Mar-19 14:14:51

I just thought it would have been phased out by now as it’s so cruel

Hoppinggreen Sat 09-Mar-19 14:22:18

I hate any form of animal cruelty and would never go anywhere near a bull fight
However, I have also spent a lot of time in Spain and read around this issue and you need to understand how deeply ingrained bullfighting is in their culture and psyche. It dates back to the Mithras Cult of the 1st century onwards that was prevelant across a lot of Southern Europe and is in some ways part of what it is to be Spanish for the older generation. The idea of Banning bullfighting is very offensive to many Spanish people and an attack on their national identity by a bunch of soft new age lefties who have no idea what it is to be truely Spanish ( paraphrasing here but you get the idea)
Of course it is also big business for breeders and bullring owners ( which are often municipal) not to mention the cult of celebrity around bullfighters.
I would love for it to be banned but I can see why it hasn’t been yet and is unlikely to some time. If you want to learn more about it read something by Jason Webster, who also writes about the Moorish influences and Flamenco. He’s an America who’s lived in Spain for many years and offers a fascinating insight into the country that goes much deeper than you get from a 2 week Holiday on The Costa Del Sol

lljkk Sat 09-Mar-19 14:22:51

Those bulls have utterly fantastic lives until the last few hours (transport isn't fun, & last 20 minutes which I'll freely agree amounts to tormenting them to death). Total quality of life is wildly much better than being a typical British beef bullock, I reckon.

Since I eat beef (& drink milk), I can pass no judgement on bull-fighting. I am partly responsible for much worse treatment of cows.

lljkk Sat 09-Mar-19 14:23:35

ps: it is dying out. Most hispanics view it as a historical peculiarity.

HeathRobinson Sat 09-Mar-19 14:24:51

In the same vein, tradition etc, I never understood how they managed to ban fox hunting in the UK.

Holiday1578 Sat 09-Mar-19 14:25:21

lljkk- that’s good if it is dying out

Holiday1578 Sat 09-Mar-19 14:27:06

Heath- unfortunately fox hunting still happens

Ellenborough Sat 09-Mar-19 14:27:17

However, I have also spent a lot of time in Spain and read around this issue and you need to understand how deeply ingrained bullfighting is in their culture and psyche.

The idea of Banning bullfighting is very offensive to many Spanish people and an attack on their national identity by a bunch of soft new age lefties who have no idea what it is to be truely Spanish ( paraphrasing here but you get the idea)

That can be applied to just about everything abhorrent that is done in the name of tradition, culture or religion. Doesn't make it right.

HeathRobinson Sat 09-Mar-19 14:30:34

Trail hunting happens, not fox.

Hoppinggreen Sat 09-Mar-19 14:31:04

I wasn’t saying it was right, I was answering OPs question about why it hasn’t been banned

Holiday1578 Sat 09-Mar-19 14:32:04

Heath- unfortunately i think a lot of people go on the wrong side of the law and fox hunting does still happen

dreichuplands Sat 09-Mar-19 14:37:25

For the same reasons as fox hunting, hare coursing, fighting with dogs etc still happen whether or not they are legal.
I lived somewhere with a bull ring, it was used but I don't know anyone who went there. It is slowly dying out in some countries.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Sat 09-Mar-19 14:40:06

I grew up on a free range farm. Trust me, some pretty horrific things happen to animals so you can eat them. Don’t even get me started on commercial slaughter houses. You can’t single out certain cultures without looking at your own.

Holiday1578 Sat 09-Mar-19 14:42:20

Jessica - I think it’s more the fact of the animal being tortured for entertainment that gets to me

Meandmetoo Sat 09-Mar-19 14:44:11

I think it is dying out now thankfully op.

I'm not one to celebrate the death of any human normally, but when I see matadors and hunters get their well earned comeuppance its hard not to smirk a little.

BejamNostalgia Sat 09-Mar-19 14:44:20

ps: it is dying out. Most hispanics view it as a historical peculiarity.

Spanish people aren’t Hispanic.

Ellenborough Sat 09-Mar-19 14:47:18

Exactly Holiday

We all know that the meat farming industry is not ideal and there is huge room for improvement where animal welfare is concerned but it can at least be argued that there is a need for it.

Deliberately hurting, terrifying, tormenting, humiliating and eventually killing an animal for fun and entertainment is not really comparable.

mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork Sat 09-Mar-19 14:57:58

I cannot bear animal cruelty and couldn't understand why bullfighting was a good watch for people. However, I then read "Death in the Afternoon" by Ernest Hemingway who loved the bullfight and understood what the attraction was for those who like to go (watching the supreme skill of a really talented toreador, positioning cape and body in classical moves, the theatre of the whole spectacle, etc) - Hemingway was in love with Spain, the Spanish and the bullfight so he puts his outlook on things much better than me, of course. I still abhor bullfighting but it made me understand the point of view of those who don't. The other thing is, I was once talking to a cleaner at work, who is Spanish, and we were discussing how I was working late and I remarked that I really needed to go home soon because the walker had probably left my dog in the garden (hot day) and she would be getting cold - she said that the dog would be fine "dogs don't feel the cold". I was a bit shocked and it was obvious that there are many people (probably not so many in UK as we are predominantly animal lovers here) who have really convinced themselves that animals don't suffer pain/cold, etc.
PS: For the mumsnet dog people - no, I don't leave my current dog alone in the garden as I am well aware that dogs are stolen from gardens a lot nowadays.

JessicaWakefieldSVH Sat 09-Mar-19 14:59:40

* it can at least be argued that there is a need for it.*

It can also be argued there is not.

RedForShort Sat 09-Mar-19 15:04:27

Those bulls have utterly fantastic lives until the last few hours (transport isn't fun, & last 20 minutes which I'll freely agree amounts to tormenting them to death).
As far as I'm aware the bulls are starved for days before hand and then given a lot of food before they are put in the arena. This method makes the bull dozy (like anyone is after eating a lot) and therefore easier to 'fight'.

Ellenborough Sat 09-Mar-19 15:05:04

Yes of course, but my point is that no-one, not even the proudest most pig-headed Spaniard, could argue a 'need' for bullfighting.

lljkk Sat 09-Mar-19 22:29:40

Quora thread is interesting.

lljkk Sat 09-Mar-19 22:38:04

Wikipedia says that it's a myth about the Spanish bulls starved before a fight.

However, claim about Portuguese bullfighting that involved 24 hrs starvation.

The are breathtakingly beautiful magnificent cattle. Can't get a bull into that amazing condition by mistreating it. The purist fans also get angry if they think the bull has been hobbled in any unseen way which is seen as a kind of cheating. Only the violence seen in the ring is considered acceptable, and the animal is supposed to arrive in the ring in tiptop condition (would say the purists). The steak is sold as very prime cuts afterwards. So it has to be top quality.

To clarify, I'm not a fan. Just that of all the crappy things humans do, this is near bottom of my upsetting list.

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