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AIBU in saying that males are not inherently violent?

(159 Posts)
QueenofmyPrinces Thu 07-Mar-19 21:25:32

Today I was having a debate with a few female colleagues about men and violence after one of our colleagues (male) had been jumped last night by three other men who then stole from him and beat him up.

This including us talking about DV, general assaults, murders, violence in gangs, mass murderers, injuries caused to children (including causing them death), acts of terrorism, rapes, and petty (but serious) drunken brawls that occur on Friday/Saturday nights. One of my colleagues said it isn’t just coincidence that the perpetrators of the above crimes are more often than not carried out by a male.

She said that she often wonders what it is that makes men do these things whereas women generally don’t - well at least not to the degree that men do.

I just sort of shrugged my shoulders and she then said that it must be in their DNA because what else is the fundamental difference between men and women if not our genetic make up?

I told her I felt uncomfortable about that train of thought as I have two sons and I didn’t like to think of them having something present in their DNA that meant they had the potential to be seriously violent towards others.

I said that there are instances of women murderers, female gangs, females who caused DV, females who brawl when drunk, females who hurt children etc and so how could she say it was DNA related? I also said that if it were related to DNA then how come every man isn’t violent and capable of such awful crimes? She then just reiterated that the number of men who commit these crimes compared to women is staggering and that’s the only explanation she can think of.

I told her that surely it is society and other external factors that play a huge role in what causes a man to be a violent one but she was very non-committal about my suggestion.

I then left the conversation feeling slightly uncomfortable and as I walked away I heard her say to our colleagues that I was “so naive” and then she laughed sad

Was IBU to make my points or am I just being a soft touch by not wanting to believe that men (not all, obviously) will always be violent, that the potential is always within them and that’s just the way it is? It sounds so ridiculous that I still can’t quite believe that she said it or thinks it.

BabyDarlingDollfaceHoney Fri 08-Mar-19 00:14:14

I'm not sure I agree with you. Murder and rape are almost exclusively male behaviours. That's not to say all men are capable of it but I think men probably do have more of a genetic disposition to commit these types of crimes than women.

She wasn't saying your boys will be rapists and murderers, I'm sure they won't, but yeah... Men do these things which women very rarely do.

nocoolnamesleft Fri 08-Mar-19 00:15:51

Yeah, yeah, NAMALT. And not all violence is male. But male violence is a fucking enormous problem.

GroggyLegs Fri 08-Mar-19 00:19:35

Men are (as a class) bigger, stronger, more entitled. Give anyone the opportunity and they will use their advantage.

Of course NAMALT, but Too Many Are LT.

araiwa Fri 08-Mar-19 00:19:50

Men are more agressive
Men are stronger
Any average woman who attacked any average man would likely lose any fight so they dont.

Look at school bullying- boys are more likely to physically bully someone, girls will emotionally or psychologically bully someone

minisoksmakehardwork Fri 08-Mar-19 00:23:49

That's like saying all women are genetically predisposed to like makeup and dresses.

Circumstances make people who they are. Stereotypes do an enormous amount of harm when it comes to expected behaviours.

There is a truth that the majority of violent crimes are committed by men. But I suspect it is stereotyping and upbringing which plays a bigger part than dna.

Myfoolishboatisleaning Fri 08-Mar-19 00:26:23

Have you been asleep for a very very long time OP? Is this the first time you have come across this? You just need to read a newspaper, male violence is fucking everywhere.

Lockheart Fri 08-Mar-19 00:26:55

NAMALT but those that are LT are almost exclusively M.

We ignore that correlation at our peril. The facts are that men make up the vast majority of the prison population and are much more likely to commit violent crime than women. I think I saw a study a few years ago which found the only crimes which women committed at a higher rate were things like fraud and embezzlement. However I can't remember the source and am happy to be corrected if wrong.

AornisHades Fri 08-Mar-19 00:27:48

No mother wants to believe their sons are capable of violence but many are forced to confront it.

BabyDarlingDollfaceHoney Fri 08-Mar-19 00:29:46

I don't agree. Well , I kind of agree that it's like saying women are predisposed to like makeup etc... I do think there's a genetic drive for women to look attractive to men (in our society often that equals makeup and dresses) and I think men are more likely to have a drive to be aggressive and violent to "kill off" the competition (men mostly kill other men). Its evolution.

Hedgehogblues Fri 08-Mar-19 00:34:20

We socialise girls to turn their anger inwards in an unhealthy way and we socialise boys to turn it outwards in an unhealthy way.

VaggieMight Fri 08-Mar-19 00:34:34

YABVU sure, sure NAMALT, but your children, whether male or female, are more likely to experience violence from a male. This surely can't be the first time you have been made aware that violent crimes are more likely be perpetrated by a male?

Thankfuckitsfriday1 Fri 08-Mar-19 00:38:30

I don’t think the potential is in ALL men but majority? Yes.

The crime rate speaks for itself, the pure amount of rape and DV that is committed and never prosecuted or even reported therefore not in any statistics is so large that i truly worry about it.

Thankfuckitsfriday1 Fri 08-Mar-19 00:39:13

what is NAMALT?

MirriVan Fri 08-Mar-19 00:39:20

I thought it was a fact that testosterone levels can be linked to aggression, but I could be wrong (though it's certainly considered to be the case re animals and castration).

Doesn't mean that a man with a high level of testosterone is doomed to act aggressively though. Humans have the ability for self restraint.

Namelessinseattle Fri 08-Mar-19 00:43:56

I agree with you, I think it’s society that breeds male violence rather than something inherently in men.

PregnantSea Fri 08-Mar-19 00:47:16

Violent crime is overwhelmingly commited by men, if you look at the stats. But also if you look at stats in America gun crime and murder are both overwhelming commited by black people. It doesn't mean that everyone who falls into that category should be judged by these stats. That's just ignorance.

Bumpitybumper Fri 08-Mar-19 00:47:58

From birth men are fundamentally biologically different to women both physically and psychologically due to prenatal exposure to androgens. Like men as a class tend to be taller than women and weigh more, men too are likely to be more prone to acts of aggression. The biological differences between the sexes aren't necessarily morally justifiable or desirable as such but it's important to acknowledge that they do exist if we wish to understand and manage these traits in a way that benefits society.

EcclesThePeacock Fri 08-Mar-19 00:49:21

* what is NAMALT?*

Not All Men Are Like That.

HeddaGarbled Fri 08-Mar-19 00:49:24

I disagree. I think male violence is biological and that society/civilisation attempts to rein it in.

pallisers Fri 08-Mar-19 00:50:39

But also if you look at stats in America gun crime and murder are both overwhelming commited by black people.

I know the point you are making and I appreciate it. But let's be fair here - those stats aren't about "black people" they are about black men. Black women aren't a huge contributer to the black crime and murder stats in the US.

HeddaGarbled Fri 08-Mar-19 00:59:23

Because females are physically weaker, we have to cow-tow to the dominant male. We are not inherently nicer or more moral, it’s a strategy for survival. The only DNA involved is that which makes females smaller and less physically strong.

pallisers Fri 08-Mar-19 01:12:35

Because females are physically weaker, we have to cow-tow to the dominant male. We are not inherently nicer or more moral, it’s a strategy for survival. The only DNA involved is that which makes females smaller and less physically strong.

I presume this is just your opinion/thoughts on the subject.

But if there are any studies that show that when women are in all-female societies they exhibit the same level of violence as males to those weaker physically than them, I would be fascinated to learn that.

Also, surely lots of men are smaller and weaker than other men,

MrsTerryPratcett Fri 08-Mar-19 01:18:28

But also if you look at stats in America gun crime and murder are both overwhelming commited by black people.

But they are underrepresented in the perpetration of mass shootings and sexual abuse of children. For balance.

I think male violence is probably, like almost everything, an interaction of genetic predisposition and environmental factors.

wombat1a Fri 08-Mar-19 01:39:22

Interesting thou is the fact that for the majority of the DV cases I have worked on it has been the female who has attacked the male. Which was completely something unexpected to me.

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