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To not feel guilty for cheating

(154 Posts)
Imnotanaccidentaltourist Sun 03-Mar-19 22:40:07

If it's making me happy and therefore by extension making my husband happier too because I am? It's with one person, we are both very clear on what we want out of it and it's just lovely. I don't love my husband any less or any differently. I know it can't carry on for ever and that's ok too. My question is am I a terrible person for not feeling guilty but instead being happy and fulfilled by both things?

positivepixie Sun 03-Mar-19 22:51:52

Is this a joke? You've developed yourself a very twisted sense of morals to justify an affair that is likely to ruin another persons life. If you don't feel any guilt then do the decent thing, tell your husband and see if he is still happy that you're doing it before he finds out another way.

Sparklesocks Sun 03-Mar-19 22:51:56

However you frame it you are still lying to your husband every single day. I wouldn’t be able to do the same to my DP so I can’t relate.

pickletickled Sun 03-Mar-19 23:01:51

Are you seriously attempting to say it's in your Husbands best interest that you're cheating - because you are happy ergo so is he :0
If your infidelity would make him grateful then go tell him, be honest. See how he feels. Yeah, of course you won't because you know it's wrong.
Poor guy.
Oh in answer to your question - YES you are a terrible person.

MegaClutterSlut Sun 03-Mar-19 23:03:35

A terrible person is putting it politely...

Gazelda Sun 03-Mar-19 23:05:23

What will your DH think when he finds out? What will he say? How will you feel when you see his hurt, disappointment, betrayal, confusion and belief that he obviously isn't enough for you?

ReaganSomerset Sun 03-Mar-19 23:05:26

Yes, I'd say so. And incredibly selfish to boot.

SparklyMagpie Sun 03-Mar-19 23:06:18

Oh fuck off YABU

SuchAToDo Sun 03-Mar-19 23:08:18

Your cheating isn't making your husband happy and if you honestly think that then you either have no morals, no conscious or are plain stupid...

Tell your husband you are cheating and ask him how happy he feels....go on, I dare you to...I bet he will kick you out the house and divorce you.

Your poor husband deserves better

AnneLovesGilbert Sun 03-Mar-19 23:08:24

Tell him and see if he’s still happy you’re happy hmm

LostwithSawyer Sun 03-Mar-19 23:09:39

Wow, you are a special type of person to cheat on someone who loves you and who you claim to love but feel no guilt or remorse.

Drogosnextwife Sun 03-Mar-19 23:10:10

Why don't you tell your husband what you are up to and see how happy he is then? hmm

MinisterforCheekyFuckery Sun 03-Mar-19 23:10:14

If it's making me happy and therefore by extension making my husband happier too because I am?

No one can be this self-absorbed, surely? You really believe that your happiness, which you have attained by betraying your DH, is so supremely important that everyone around you should just be grateful to bask in it?

If you're going to be a liar and a cheat, at least own it. Decieving your DH is one thing, but trying to make out that shagging someone else is actually in his best interests to salve your conscience is the worst kind of cowardice. Face up to what you've done.

Hubblebubbletripletrouble Sun 03-Mar-19 23:10:21

Jesus, how selfish.

IncrediblySadToo Sun 03-Mar-19 23:11:03

Are you still having sex with your DH?

DustyMaiden Sun 03-Mar-19 23:12:02

Tell him so he can return the favour and make you happy by shagging someone else.

Designerenvy Sun 03-Mar-19 23:12:28

How would you feel if your DH did this to you? Devastated, betrayed, hurt, angry etc????
It's beyond awful, it's disgusting. How can you say you loved your husband the same as before and betray him like this?

Hidingtonothing Sun 03-Mar-19 23:16:02

Why don't you ask your husband whether it makes you a terrible person? No....? You are a terrible person because what you're doing would hurt him immensely if he knew, how can you do that to someone you profess to love?

MrMeSeeks Sun 03-Mar-19 23:16:13

Yes you are.
See how happy you both are when he finds out.

HeartStrings Sun 03-Mar-19 23:16:57

I think you're a wonderful person for doing what your doing. It's clear your putting you DH happiness above your own. What he don't know won't hurt him and as long as your happy then carry on..


Honestly, do the decent thing and leave your husband. He deserves a woman who will be loyal and respectful to him. YABVVVVVU. How selfish!!

MinisterforCheekyFuckery Sun 03-Mar-19 23:17:12

Do you have children, OP?

MinisterforCheekyFuckery Sun 03-Mar-19 23:19:04

What about the person you're cheating with, is he married too? Does he have a family? Not that you'll have given them a second thought I suppose since you don't care about the impact on your own DH.

Drogosnextwife Sun 03-Mar-19 23:19:09

I wonder if OP will come back and explain a bit more.

LargeGlassofWhiteWine Sun 03-Mar-19 23:20:24

Yes you are a terrible person.
I feel for your poor DH.

EmeraldShamrock Sun 03-Mar-19 23:23:39

Like a pp said tell your DH, see how happy he is.
Is your lover married.
Grow up.

PrestonsFlowers Sun 03-Mar-19 23:23:54

Ok, the Mil and the bus one was vaguely amusing.
The rhyming twin baby names was odd
This one is not even plausible

LonelyMouse Sun 03-Mar-19 23:24:46

You are disgusting and selfish but it doesn't sound like you care so I doubt you'll actually stop what you are doing. If you actually cared about your husband you'd be honest with him so he knows what a vile person he married and has the choice to leave you.

Lovingbenidorm Sun 03-Mar-19 23:26:32

Op you are living a deceitful life
You are lying to your husband on a daily basis
You have convinced yourself that what you are doing is not a bad thing, that is quite an accomplishment in itself!
Why are you still married to this poor deceived fool?
Is it because the other man isn’t free to have an open relationship with you?
In which case all I see here is 2 people who are behaving appallingly.
My advice (not that you want it) would be to finish your marriage, regardless of whether there’s another man to run to, and take a bloody good look at yourself.

Lovingbenidorm Sun 03-Mar-19 23:28:43

Preston is this a wind up post?

AnyFucker Sun 03-Mar-19 23:30:06

This is getting boring now

TheFormidableMrsC Sun 03-Mar-19 23:39:19

You're a goady turd. Go away.

Lovingbenidorm Sun 03-Mar-19 23:40:21

Ashamed I even bothered my arse replying 🙄

Ellie56 Sun 03-Mar-19 23:40:28

Yeah right. hmm

RomanyQueen1 Sun 03-Mar-19 23:41:01

There are words for women like you.

SurgeHopper Sun 03-Mar-19 23:48:31

Wrong website op

SaturdayNext Sun 03-Mar-19 23:50:29

You made a promise to your husband. You've broken it several times.
Why don't you feel guilty about that?

ReanimatedSGB Sun 03-Mar-19 23:51:59

Oh waa waa waa, here come the monogamy police. No, it's not necessarily terrible to have or seek sex outside of your officially senctioned partnership. If you have a Partner/Spouse who is:
asexual or not interested in sex with you
physically incapable of sex
having sex with other people and expecting you to not notice or not mind
Then that's fine.

Merryoldgoat Sun 03-Mar-19 23:53:57

Sounds lovely. We should all be doing it.

Bun123 Sun 03-Mar-19 23:54:14

I have only found out this week that my husband of 49 years,yes 49, had a two year affair a number of years ago. Found out by finding cards, photo etc stuck in the back of a wardrobe. Apparently I didn’t satisfy him sexually, so it’s my fault apparently. I feel devastated, shamed, confused, worthless, heartbroken. I have cried for days, have chest pains which frighten me. But no feelings of happiness.

Lovingbenidorm Sun 03-Mar-19 23:58:56

Bun that must be devastating, so sorry x

user1473878824 Mon 04-Mar-19 00:01:17

@ReanimatedSGB that’s fine if the other person knows. If it’s not, you’re doing something devastating to someone.

ReanimatedSGB Mon 04-Mar-19 00:03:30

Quite a lot of people find the absolute drudgery of longterm monogamist parenthood is made more bearable by a bit of fun on the side. Nothing wrong with that. (And, all you whiners, maybe remember that monogamy was invented by men to benefit men at the expense of women in the first place.)

Butchyrestingface Mon 04-Mar-19 00:04:06

@ReanimatedSGB, nothing to suggest any of those things apply here.

Bun123 Mon 04-Mar-19 00:06:47

Thanks Loving. Your words mean a lot. I can’t talk to anyone about it, I feel so low. I have never posted before and it’s a relief to tell someone. I feel a fool. A worthless old fool.

Lovingbenidorm Mon 04-Mar-19 00:06:55

Bloody hell!
What ever happened to basic honesty, morals and commitment?

Butchyrestingface Mon 04-Mar-19 00:14:50

Apparently I didn’t satisfy him sexually, so it’s my fault apparently.

Is that what he actually said in his defence?

Bellasorellaa Mon 04-Mar-19 00:16:42

How I felt when I got cheated on was like I wanted to die

Lovingbenidorm Mon 04-Mar-19 00:17:58

Oh Bun please don’t.
Whatever your husband says it most definitely was not your fault. It sounds like he’s trying to minimise it because it was a long time ago etc etc
Don’t let this knock how you feel about yourself. You are not a fool and certainly not worthless, remember that!
HE is in the wrong
Where you go from here is very much up to you, the quality of your relationship etc (you’ve certainly got some history with him)
I can understand you don’t have anyone to talk to about it, you’re not a teenager and you don’t want it to become gossip.
Try to be kind to yourself and don’t let his actions doubt the goodness in yourself xx

Lizzie48 Mon 04-Mar-19 00:19:59

I'm sure this is just a bored poster winding us all up. I never normally troll hunt, but I'm sure this is a wind up.

In case you're not, you're deluding yourself if you think what you're doing is benefiting your DH at all. hmm

user1473878824 Mon 04-Mar-19 00:21:04

@ReanimatedSGB it does matter if your are HURTING SOMEONE ELSE. Jesus.

user1473878824 Mon 04-Mar-19 00:22:26

@Bun123 this is all him, not you. I’m so sorry xx

LikeYouSaid Mon 04-Mar-19 00:23:53

@Bun123 flowers you are not worthless. He was in the wrong and if anyone should feel foolish it should be him throwing away a long marriage. Although you feel like crap now just remember you have the moral high ground and whatever you decide you did nothing wrong at all. Don’t ever let his own guilty conscience try and convince you that you have.

As for the OP... Does your DH know? You sound incredibly goady.

TheFormidableMrsC Mon 04-Mar-19 00:25:48

@ReanimatedSGB Yup, it's all fine, as long as you're upfront about it, that the other party knows their sexual health might be at risk, that the other party has the choice to end the relationship if it's not acceptable to them. I am sure OP would be absolutely fine with her husband having an affair with somebody if it makes him happy...because by extension, that makes HER happy too...because everybody's SO HAPPY! ODFOD.

HappyLife21 Mon 04-Mar-19 00:31:37

Is this a reverse?

EmeraldShamrock Mon 04-Mar-19 00:40:02

Bun123 Bun you are very far for worthless, you a fabulous lady who was to trusting to catch the sneaky bastard
How dare he use the excuse not enough, no he was a sleazy pig, he should have been apologising on repeat.
If you haven't put him out, please do and talk to others in RL, we all know lots of men are complete pigs. Do not feel ashamed the only mistake you made was trusting him.

OffToBedhampton Mon 04-Mar-19 00:42:28

It's not nice what you are doing.
But I won't judge. Hide it well and don't be a douchebag if s/he does eventually suspect (ie admit it, don't gaslight....! As that is exponential doucheness)

Because when DP does suspect or find out , you do know you may lose your marriage, DC and world? And hurt your DP so deeply they could never recover from the betrayal.

Just mentioning that it might not be as harmless as you think.

PanickAttack Mon 04-Mar-19 00:43:31

Yeh don’t feel guilty so that it gets easier for your DH to dump you without looking back

Bun123 Mon 04-Mar-19 00:46:02

Thanks so much xxx. Bella, I know. In 49 years, in which I thought we had a happy marriage, full of ups and downs, tears and laughter but love, commitment, shared interests and memories, bought up children who are the light of my life, I never dreamed in a million years this could have happened. My grandson was just over a year old when he embarked on his affair. Which you would think would be a time of nothing but joy. I thought he was a kind decent man. Of course I have my faults - lots of them. Most have been pointed out this week. Apparently I never really enjoyed sex enough so he feels he was justified to go off and find someone who did. Yeah she was married too, but “apparently” their marriage was an empty relationship. Although she made sure he never found out either. I’m normally a bold, feisty person (probably a fault) but it has made me feel so betrayed and that my married life was a complete sham. Oh he still loves me as a friend and can’t see this is one of the most insulting things in the world. Or is it me? Sorry didn’t mean to hog the thread. But it has helped. Off for another cry.

LaBelleSauvage Mon 04-Mar-19 00:47:57

OP your post makes you sound like a creep.

Of course YABU

Namechangeforthegamechange Mon 04-Mar-19 00:48:37

You are trying to justify your actions and I’m sorry but yabu. There is nothing but a world of hurt waiting to happen. You might be happy now but if you destroy your relationship/family and that of the OM, you will see the flip side and god forbid the OM hasn’t a DW out for blood!

Adu1tHumanFemale Mon 04-Mar-19 00:51:52

0 out of 10

EmeraldShamrock Mon 04-Mar-19 00:52:15

Jasus Buns truly awful.
You must be heart broken, none of us ever know, I am sure in the past like me thinking on my guy is good we have our ups and downs.
It must have completely knocked you for 6. One thing you mentioned your GS, Your DH probably felt all the attention was him was over, he is patatic, I would also tell the ows DH, she doesn't deserve to walk away.
Don't cry any more, concentrate on your GS.

EmeraldShamrock Mon 04-Mar-19 00:54:14

Oh don't worry about derailing the thread, OP is a troll.

Bun123 Mon 04-Mar-19 01:08:47

Last message before bed (alone). I wouldn’t ever, ever inflict the hurt I feel on another innocent person. Not that I am a goody two shoes, but the level of grief, and it is real grief, it feels like a bereavement. Oh yes he feels sorry now, he has lost a cosy, happy relationship ( no hot sex though). And he is truly sorry (that he got found out). By the way that grandson is now a teenager. Which shows time does not heal a betrayal. And I only found out last week. Got to go to bed - feeling a bit crazy. Might write something daft. Thanks again for your wonderful support xx

Lovingbenidorm Mon 04-Mar-19 01:10:21

Sleep well Bun x

EmeraldShamrock Mon 04-Mar-19 01:14:18

I get it, see how lovely you are thinking of the other victim in his affair.
it is his loss now let him reap the consequences. flowers

Ireallywantmylifeback Mon 04-Mar-19 01:15:21

@Bun123 your post is so sad. I'm sorry that he has put you through this.
I hope in time you will heal and realise it's all on him, not you!

CheshireChat Mon 04-Mar-19 01:34:12

@Bun123 you mentioned you have no one to talk to, well that's why MN is pretty great and if you think AIBU is too harsh, you could always post in Relationships which is a lot milder, plus you can receive ongoing support.

ChaircatMiaow Mon 04-Mar-19 01:38:51

@Bun123 write as much daft stuff as you like. Lots of support here for you flowers

humpydumpybumpy Mon 04-Mar-19 01:51:17

@Bun123 flowers Your post is worth responding to, the OP's post not at all.

Bun you sound fab, so hold your head up, you honest lovely woman!

helacells Mon 04-Mar-19 01:52:57


PyongyangKipperbang Mon 04-Mar-19 02:17:25

One of the most common posts on Chumplady is "He said that because he was happy, I was happy too so what was my problem?" or along those lines.

You cant argue with anyone who is determined to justify their own utterly shite behaviour.

Thinking of you Bun, I am starting to come out the other side but I remember the pain of the early days so clearly. I never thought that an emotional pain could physically hurt.

Please look after yourself my love flowers

Bun123 Mon 04-Mar-19 10:07:51

These messages of kindness are the only thing keeping me going at the moment. So thank you so much. I agree about what was said about emotional pain. The chest pains and this heavy feeling I think are what a broken heart feels like. To Cheshire- don’t worry about this being on Aibu - I rather like the cut and thrust of this forum. If you’re not a twat no one will call you a twat - if you are - well you need telling! As far as telling my dear friends go - my pride (more faults) just could not bear to see them pity me. Some of them would want to kill him- he’s not worth jail time! Is being flippant another failing? I feel strangely chuffed at my debut post managing to hi-jack a trolls thread.
Anyway - cleaning out the wardrobe was his idea - he had forgotten the stuff was there😄. I need encouragement to do housework (although love cooking). Tend to be a slut around the house although sadly not in the bedroom!
You might like to know that this lovely couple were pushing 60 when their affair started and apparently caused by me not wanting “to try anything new”. So maybe IABU
I don’t want to go out anywhere and feel sick and shamed. I have never felt like this before. My life is in ruins. I can’t even look back at happy memories, like a normal bereavement, they have been taken from me, the last 40 odd years, according to him this morning were just making “the best of it”
I thought we loved each other

aintnothinbutagstring Mon 04-Mar-19 10:38:42

Bun, I'm sure he was happily married to you or he could have left and gone into the sunset with her could he not? Lots of people view love and lust separately, she may have satisfied his sexual needs at that time but not enough love was there to leave you, little comfort to you now I'm sure. Don't believe that your marriage was a sham or a waste of your years, it sounds like you have built a lovely family together, no affair can take that away. It's time to consider what YOU want going into the next phase of your life. And you're not the silly old fool, he is.

Frecklesonmyarm Mon 04-Mar-19 10:41:36

If you think your life is so great and you are doing your husband a favour. Why do you keep posting about this?

Could it be that you are actually unhappy, or simply that you are GF?

motherheroic Mon 04-Mar-19 11:12:38

'It's just lovely'.

M4J4 Mon 04-Mar-19 11:13:02

I feel strangely chuffed at my debut post managing to hi-jack a trolls thread.
Anyway - cleaning out the wardrobe was his idea - he had forgotten the stuff was there. I need encouragement to do housework (although love cooking). Tend to be a slut around the house although sadly not in the bedroom!

You've a great sense of humour, Bun! It's his loss. Has he moved out? xx

LancsPear Mon 04-Mar-19 11:17:22

I posted the other day about my mother's emotional affair. Posters told me to get over it as it was just her living her life/having a life of her own.


stevie69 Mon 04-Mar-19 11:24:03

Quite a lot of people find the absolute drudgery of longterm monogamist parenthood is made more bearable by a bit of fun on the side. Nothing wrong with that.

There's everything wrong with it. What purpose do marriage vows serve then?

I would find long term monogamy an absolute ball ache but .... I'm neither married nor in a committed relationship.

Also, my post isn't meant to damn anyone who's ever made a mistake: far from it. But taking your commitments so lightly and deceiving a loved one and thinking that's perfectly OK? Nah, that doesn't right with me.

If you want the single life, have the fucking balls to be single!

Helpimstuck4 Mon 04-Mar-19 12:05:23

How awful, I hope he finds out and leaves you for someone worthwhile.

Limensoda Mon 04-Mar-19 12:08:02

So this is actually good for your husband?....grin
Except if he found out it would devastate him. You know it's wrong and your justification for cheating is pathetic.

Bun123 Mon 04-Mar-19 12:11:21

Hi M4j4. Sorry don’t know how to do that bold writing. No he has not moved out. He is playing golf.
Verbal attack this morning - which I understand. He is not unaffected by this shit storm and as I know emotions change all the time. One minute I am a tearful wreck, the next an angry banshee. He is desperately trying to justify this. Somehow this makes it worse.
I don’t want him to move out. It would be a drain on our resources and we are 70+ and I want as much as possible for our sons to inherit any money and our (modest) house. Is that mad?
I also don’t want our lovely family to know about this, it would cause them pain and heartache.
I want to get to where I don’t care anymore and feel nothing 🙁

GreatDuckCookery6211 Mon 04-Mar-19 12:12:00

Bet you have twins too OP. hmm

SilverySurfer Mon 04-Mar-19 12:30:23

It takes a special kind of person (and I don't mean that in a good way) to come on a forum where both men and women post about their relationships and the pain of their other half cheating on them and declare having an affair makes her happy so makes her DH happy. WTF do you really expect people to say?

I hope your DH kicks your cheating arse out the door.

DoctorDread Mon 04-Mar-19 12:55:36


Chloemol Mon 04-Mar-19 13:02:52

HOw would you feel if your husband rocked up and said hey been cheating on you , but don’t worry it made me happy so therefore it made you happy as well

Youre an idiot

nothinglikeadame Mon 04-Mar-19 13:45:24

I expect the OP is looking for one response that tells her "yes it's fine" , and then she will tootle off, safe in her mind she has been validated and approved by Mumsnet.

outpinked Mon 04-Mar-19 13:50:57

You have attempted to convince yourself that cheating on your husband is a good thing but not only for yourself- for your poor husband as well! Jesus, what a cracker you are. Tell your husband and see how happy he is then.

Morgan12 Mon 04-Mar-19 13:55:07

Is your husband allowed to shag other women to make you happy?

QuirkyQuark Mon 04-Mar-19 14:33:27

Justifying your cheating by claiming it's making your husband happy does indeed make you a terrible person.

Let him know what you're up to and there reason you're happy. If he's fine then crack on, if he feels utterly betrayed and deeply hurt then do him a favour and walk away so he can mend.

RomanyQueen1 Mon 04-Mar-19 17:15:03

I never understand why loose women like this don't just ask their partner for an open relationship, it's not fair he gets no fun.

Arnoldthecat Mon 04-Mar-19 17:25:46

I guess sex with the same person week in week out could get quite boring? YOLO..

TheFormidableMrsC Mon 04-Mar-19 18:04:28

@Arnoldthecat I agree! For some people that is not an option. However, stay single in that case, be upfront about it and fuck who you like! Cheating, however, is not OK and being so lacking in self awareness that you are somehow trying to justify it by claiming it makes your husband "happy" is just mind boggling.

TitsAndTomatoes Mon 04-Mar-19 18:08:06

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RomanyQueen1 Mon 04-Mar-19 18:09:24

I bet once the husband does know, it won't be making him happy grin
What a load of bollocks, literally.

EvePolastriBaby Mon 04-Mar-19 18:18:39

Probably the most selfish post I've read in a while.

Tell him, he may agree to an open relationship. Or he may put you up on the shelf where you belong.

CheshireChat Tue 05-Mar-19 02:42:25

Bun123 it sounds like he's turned your life together upside down.

This is a really controversial thing, but I'm not sure how much I'd be covering for him as it always seems to me that the innocent party ends up being 'joing guilty' so to speak.

You don't have to leave him if you don't want to either, though he should definitely be making amends as much as it's possible at this point.

SweetRosie92 Tue 05-Mar-19 06:20:25

OP you should tell your DH so he can decide if he wants someone on the side too.

Bun123 you make me feel very sad for you. I know it doesn't help but this sort of thing seems to happen a lot. Sadly. I think some men view it almost as a right.

I've been married almost 20 yrs, would never ever think my DH is the cheating kind. But the past 8 months my women's intuition has been off the charts. Lots of red flags, lots of denial. Maybe I am just nuts and he's completely innocent.

I really hope things work out for you. People do pull through this regardless if they stay together or not, there is life after this. Best of luck xxxooo flowers

Bun123 Tue 05-Mar-19 11:44:19

Bless your hearts. This support is wonderful. As I have said I am not perfect (but also not a lying cheating rat, bitter moi?) but have always thought friends stood up for their mates in bad times. So I count you as my friends
To continue this very therapeutic conversation, enjoying making it all about “me me me” (a rare treat for a wife, mum, grandmother, busy professional in the NHS, worked 12 years after I could have retired, irrelevant I know but chucking it all in!) can I tell you one of the things that hurts so much?
It’s the thought of them scheming their meetings and, in my view, laughing at me behind my back, I must have rung him when he was with her, in my mind I can see them pulling faces and her smirking. I torture my self with these thoughts. What excuses did he give to meet her? Did I wave him off and wish him a nice day, kiss him goodbye? Did I ask him how his day had been and be interested in the pack of lies he made up for me? He told me sometimes he took the day off work. I must have got up early, as usual and made him a packed lunch. But as it went on for two years he must have also had his nice little outings at weekends, me sitting at home (or working) but quite happy he was watching some sport event or meeting an old mate (i would only have assumed a male mate). God I was a plank.
So then, my pride is hurt, I was made a fool of, maybe I’m shallow, but it hurts like hell and I cry and cry.
This is only one aspect of course, I can’t bear to see photos of us together (smiling and living out this sham life, although only one of us knew) so lots of empty picture hooks on the walls!
Thanks so much - that felt better out than in. Xxxxxx

Bun123 Tue 05-Mar-19 12:09:54

Oh by the way, the retirement thing - although I liked my job, I was working for the money, for us and to be able to treat the kids and later on (although the grand love affair was over 🤔, or so I’ve been told) for him to retire while I carried on working! Nice xxx

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