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Murders in London

(156 Posts)
snowdrop6 Sun 03-Mar-19 09:32:38

AIBU to think that if the police had back the powers to stop and search anyone ,and to arrest any persons with a knife ,our country would be a lot safer..
I know it's not quite as simple as that ,as we need more officers on the street to do so ,and more prisons to house people caught with a knife .giving them a lengthy Sentence as well.
But would it not be at least a start? And if it saved one person from dying it would be worth it..
Plus if you have nothing to hide, you won't mind the police stopping you ,as you will understand they are just doing their job..

OMGithurts Sun 03-Mar-19 09:36:37

Police do have power to arrest anyone with a knife, and legally speaking search powers are fairly extensive. This isn't a legislative issue.

Police numbers are in freefall and those remaining have far more inside work to do, so aren't out being proactive. Political and senior management support for officers using search powers has been, until very recently, non existent. Funding for youth intervention and diversion projects has been cut to the bone. This is a huge problem that needs much more than knee jerk changes in laws that have nobody to enforce them anyway.

Daffydillo Sun 03-Mar-19 09:37:44

Would be nice wouldn’t it? However, these knife crimes seem to be happening in groups where there is huge distrust between those that carry the knives, and the police. I think they’re unlikely to accept that it’s just the police doing their job.

I personally believe the way forward is to invest in these areas of deprivation where gang culture is the norm. Where are the youth centres? Youth workers? Give these young people some hope and aspiration in life to break the cycle.

OMGithurts Sun 03-Mar-19 09:38:18

Plus if you have nothing to hide, you won't mind the police stopping you ,as you will understand they are just doing their job.

This is a seriously naive statement. Are you aware that there are several communities in London that believe the police are actively hostile towards them and target them unfairly?

Namechangedforgoodreason Sun 03-Mar-19 09:38:56

They do have the right and it is already illegal to carry a knife. If you are suggesting the return of Stop And Search you should understand the impact of that on the Black population

tokirara Sun 03-Mar-19 09:41:36

The real issue (and I daresay criminal, in the moral and not legal sense of the word) is the repeated and sustained cuts in local government funding which places strain on and reduces various social interventions that can lead to longer term reduction in knife crime.

Namechangedforgoodreason Sun 03-Mar-19 09:44:06

tok totally agree

BlueSkiesLies Sun 03-Mar-19 09:46:01

This is a seriously naive statement. Are you aware that there are several communities in London that believe the police are actively hostile towards them and target them unfairly?

Are these the same communities who’s young men are over represented in knife crime and other gang violence?

Pluginwall Sun 03-Mar-19 09:49:38

The drugs industry is behind the rise in knife crime. If we want a long term solution, we should be targeting the people further up the chain (or legalise and control recreational drugs to take out the criminal element)

Namechangedforgoodreason Sun 03-Mar-19 09:50:43

Blue look for nuance. Have you ever met a young black man on his way to work that has been searched? Do you understand the impact of racial profiling? Do you understand that being othered increases the issues? I think I know the answers to all these questions. No

Foxyscarf Sun 03-Mar-19 09:50:59

I understand the hostility that some of the black community may feel towards the police, especially on the subject of stop and search, however, if this is a measure that would have even the slightest impact on knife crime then I feel it's worth considering.

People are being stabbed to death, frequently, and taking measures to combat it should be welcomed by all. It shouldn't be a "them vs us" situation, we're all people who have a right not to be stabbed to death.

Daffydillo Sun 03-Mar-19 09:51:11

@Pluginwall what makes you think it’s drugs related? Genuine question!

OMGithurts Sun 03-Mar-19 09:51:41

BlueSkiesLies that is in response to the OP assuming that people won't mind being searched for no justifiable reason. If there is a perception of unfairness then someone who isn't doing something wrong and is stopped isn't going to be mollified by the fact that someone who looks a bit like them is more likely to be doing something wrong. Goodness knows there are plenty of complaints about even searches that find something! As PPs have said, the root causes of this need to be addressed working with these communities.

YouBumder Sun 03-Mar-19 09:53:04

Plus if you have nothing to hide, you won't mind the police stopping you ,as you will understand they are just doing their job.

I have “nothing to hide” and would very much object to this. First step to a totalitarian police state.

Cornettoninja Sun 03-Mar-19 09:54:51

I think a variant of national service would be beneficial for most of our teenagers to be honest. Not necessarily the military but a few months out of their normal environment and social group in a productive, independent role to learn about self reliance, discipline and mix with people from all backgrounds. It would be benecial for teens from all backgrounds imho.

Young people caught up in areas prone to deprivation and violence would have the opportunity to experience the difference instead of having abstract concepts that have no relevance in their lives rammed down their throats in an attempt to educate them.

Complete pie in the sky thinking though, it would be expensive to execute properly but I really believe it would have a real impact on society as a whole long term.

CluedoAddict Sun 03-Mar-19 09:56:25

It's not just London there have been lots here in Coventry and in Birmingham recently too. The country has gone to pot.

KnopeforAmerica Sun 03-Mar-19 09:56:58

I have never broken the law and would be pissed off if a police officer stopped me and demanded I empty my bags, pockets etc without provocation (eg me being violent/threatening). I just want to go about my day and not be treated like a criminal, humiliated in public and delayed in getting where I was going so no, the fact I have done nothing wrong does not mean I would be happy or particularly 'understanding' of being searched.

Cornettoninja Sun 03-Mar-19 09:57:37

what makes you think it’s drugs related? Genuine question

Not my question to answer but where there’s drugs (the supply chain specifically not necessarily the use of) there’s violence. It doesn’t always follow in reverse but there is truth in the belief.

Kneehigim Sun 03-Mar-19 09:57:38

Just got notification last night that there is a Section 60? in force in our area due to two knives being found on persons. This apparently gives the police power to stop and search without any reasonable cause. Will see if I can find the post and will re-post.

DGRossetti Sun 03-Mar-19 09:59:55

And if it saved one person from dying it would be worth it.

How about the hundreds of people killed on the roads each year. By your logic, let's ban cars.

After all...

And if it saved one person from dying it would be worth it.

Stop'n'search is an easy "solution" for a society that craves easy solutions. A much better solution would be to all work on a society which doesn't throw entire generations into a heap where they feel unvalued, unwanted and resented ? Probably sounds too much like hard work.

Pluginwall Sun 03-Mar-19 10:00:03

what makes you think it’s drugs related? Genuine question!

@Daffydillo

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/10/london-gangs-changed-violence-waltham-forest-drugs

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/01/arresting-kids-not-stop-knife-crime-stabbings-london

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/stabbings-knife-crime-murders-uk-violent-drug-gangs-children-austerity-a8636071.html

news.sky.com/story/line-18-3-million-per-day-county-lines-drugs-business-fuelling-knife-crime-11566109

snowdrop6 Sun 03-Mar-19 10:00:42

In Rotherham,the school girls were not listened to ,because people didn't want to be seen to be targeting certain ethnic groups.so it was allowed to continue.
By saying black people will feel discriminated against by stop and search .are we not doing the same again?
I don't know..but colour of skin aside,a mother is a mother no matter where she lives...as a mother myself ,I want my young adult sons home safe every night...I can't see how a woman with a different skin colour than mine would want anything different from me..where I live there is knife crime ,knives need to be off the street .i would have no problem with police stoping and searching my sons .none what so ever.

Kneehigim Sun 03-Mar-19 10:01:23

It's on the Met police twitter

"A Section 60 CJPOA 94’ has been authorised for the borough of xxxxxx from 2010hrs to 0700hrs tomorrow. This power gives Police Officers the power to search persons and vehicles for offensive weapons without reasonable grounds. This power is used protect Londoners."

Politicalacuityisathing Sun 03-Mar-19 10:01:39

YABU OP. Short term knee jerk populist responses are most definitely NOT the answer. Google "violence reduction unit" in Scotland. That is more along the right lines (and the approach reduced the murder rate in Glasgow significantly). But it takes long term vision and by in from across society.

Kneehigim Sun 03-Mar-19 10:03:26

The knives they found are not your average kitchen knife. They'd be something you'd use to kill. Long bladed, serrated things. Pictures of them on our local FB page and local councillor provided a link to the tweet from the Met police.

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