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Making another adult say please/thank you!

(174 Posts)
mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 12:12:30

For clarity, I often have to shake myself because I say thank you so often and often at inappropriate times. Like those people how say "I love you" to customers or their boss, it a bit of a brain fart for me. My emails automatically Sign off Thanks as I use it so often.

Anyway. I help out at a school, I'm on the PTA and a Governor, but I also help out with whatever needs done and volunteer for most things going on there.

There is a new temporary office staff, I often have to ask her for things as we store PTA money in the office or to get keys etc. I usually use her name and will say something like, "can you do me a favour" and request what I need. She has three times stopped me and asked me what the magic word was and twice said "if you were a child I would be telling you to say please and thank you". For reference I do always say thank you anyway. But I am getting irked by being called out in an office for being impolite. One of the times she did this, I had just said "that's great, you're a star" and she still called me out on this.

All my kids reports always say how polite they are.

There is some undercurrents in the school so I am not sure if this is to do with this, but frankly I'm fed up of it. It happened so many times now. I'm in the school helping them out, all staff have to go ask to get stuff, I'm not making more work, In fact the opposite. As it is we "borrow" staff from other schools to support our office staff as there are some major issues going on, I am involved in some staff disciplinary actions and while I know the staff don't know the details I think they don't like me because of that. I don't care if she likes me or not, but she doesn't dare do it in front of senior leadership and I can see her smirk 😏 when she does it to me to the kitchen staff.

I guess I find it irking that an adult would instruct another adult in this manner. I am being grateful, I do say thank you, I can surely express gratitude my saying, "that's brilliant" or whatever without a script saying "please may I".

I'm not confrontational but looking for a funny reply that gets my point across but isn't too catty. Unless everyone actually believes AIBU and my conversations need to be scripted that that manner.

pallasathena Thu 28-Feb-19 12:15:02

When in Rome.....

CripsSandwiches Thu 28-Feb-19 12:16:30

YANBU. saying "that's great, you're a star" has exactly the same affect as a thank you. She's being patronising and rude herself.

Armadillostoes Thu 28-Feb-19 12:19:42

OP-Why not just be really direct with her next time? Tell her that th find it patronising and very rude!

Shockers Thu 28-Feb-19 12:19:59

Deliver all spoken requests with a cool please and thank you. Nothing else!

PuppyMonkey Thu 28-Feb-19 12:22:47

Could you respond with a “lol”?

Or a “soz, mum.”grin

LittleCandle Thu 28-Feb-19 12:23:48

I wouldn't be doing things for you if you didn't say please, either. Who are you that you think you are above saying that? And 'thanks, you're a star' is much better than just saying 'you're a star'. Perhaps you ought to give your head a wobble and realise that manners are important to everyone, not just children. Of course, the other person shouldn't be saying 'what's the magic word'. I would be far blunter than that.

buzzbobbly Thu 28-Feb-19 12:24:09

I usually use her name and will say something like, "can you do me a favour" and request what I need.

Why not kill two birds with one stone - make your request without making a request to make the request; and include the ps and qs at the same time:

"Annie, please give me the keys to the stationery cupboard, thanks"

Ribbonsonabox Thu 28-Feb-19 12:24:50

YANBU I'd just never say anything remotely like please and thankyou to her again tbh. But I am pretty passive aggressive! I'd not be pleased or thankful for anything she did. What a patronising dick!
Just up the commanding tone of your voice and look her dead in the eyes whilst doing it. And if she says what's the magic word say 'if you were a child I'd be telling you not to be so cheeky'
People like this get away with it due to your embarrassment and softer nature. Key is to stop caring about whether shes happy with you or not and to stop being embarrassed or ashamed. She is trying to make you feel like shit, she doesn't have a point really shes doing it out of spite. Saying 'that's great' or 'brilliant' is as good as saying actual thank you any other adult who wasnt trying to pick away at you would agree.

PregnantSea Thu 28-Feb-19 12:26:28

I would be tempted to completely ignore her when she says stuff like that, and walk away

ShadyLady53 Thu 28-Feb-19 12:26:32

I loved our office staff when I worked in schools but they were so used to having children and parents approach them demanding things, often quite rudely, that they'd automatically say things like "What's the magic word?" "Go away and think about how to politely ask for something then come back when you've figured it out" or "I am a person you know, a please and thank you would be nice". They must have seen me look shocked when I overheard the middle comment one day (I did think it was rude/abrupt) and they all started explaining, once the parent left, of how sick they were of being spoken to like dogs and of how rare it was for people to say please and thank you . I suspect it's a mixture of both the above and being on a huge power trip that's wrong with this woman.

For what it's worth, I'd say "Please can I ask a favour?" as clumsy as it sounds but I'd also probably make a point of saying, "I was about to say thank you but you didn't give me the chance before criticising me. I am a polite person, I have good manners and I've raised my children the same way. I am offended that you repeatedly talk to me as if I am a child because I, for example, say something like "you're a star", instead of "thank you". Please stop belittling me and attempting to embarrass me in front of other members of staff, your behaviour and attitude makes me feel very uncomfortable." And make sure you do it in front of a more senior member of staff!

GreenEggsHamandChips Thu 28-Feb-19 12:27:41

Manners cost nothing.

EyeOfTheTigger Thu 28-Feb-19 12:27:49

Or - shock, horror - you could actually say Please when you ask for the favour? Is it really so difficult to add that word on? Just because you say Thank You, doesn't mean you should omit a Please in the first place. Why do you dislike saying Please?

userschmoozer Thu 28-Feb-19 12:29:26

Yanbu, suggest assertiveness training to your employer. There shouldn't be any need for please and thank you every time.

Likethewind321 Thu 28-Feb-19 12:30:02

I would turn the whole thing into an in-joke. Try to appear good natured rather than catty. Whenever she gives you what you’ve asked for, say “THANK you very much Mrs Jones” with a smile and a wink.
Make it clear that you are indulging her desire for a specific wording, rather than deferring to her superior rules on ettiquette.

MaybeitsMaybelline Thu 28-Feb-19 12:30:31

I always say please, I think that’s normal.

MyKingdomForBrie Thu 28-Feb-19 12:32:15

I have to say I would just say please and thank you. It's a totally normal social convention. She shouldn't be reminding you but you should just be saying it anyway. 'You're a star' etc is a bit patronising to another adult in my opinion.

zzzzz Thu 28-Feb-19 12:33:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NCforthis2019 Thu 28-Feb-19 12:36:02

So your usually polite with your please and thank you’s however when it comes to her you don’t say please and thank you?

flooredbored Thu 28-Feb-19 12:37:49

To be honest, I think 'please' and 'thank you' would be the most appropriate for those situations. Personally, I find 'you're a star' quite patronising.

JassyRadlett Thu 28-Feb-19 12:38:26

I’d be tempted to go all Ron Swanson and append ‘please and thank you’ to the end of every request.

maras2 Thu 28-Feb-19 12:44:53

Why on earth could you just not say please or thank you? confused
It's just basic common courtesy.
Also who the heck says 'I love you' to the boss/customer etc?

DearTeddyRobinson Thu 28-Feb-19 12:47:03

Personally I find 'you're a star' a bit affected and annoying. Lending you a stapler doesn't make me a 'star'. Just say thank you.
However with this particular woman who sounds extremely annoying, I would just say please and thank you very coldly. 'Could you lend me a stapler please Janet?' No intervening chit chat, then, 'thank you for the stapler'. And walk away.

Ragwort Thu 28-Feb-19 12:47:28

Agree with floor, surely the good mannered thing to is to say ‘please may I ask you a favour and could you do ......’. And then say ‘thank you’.

I would also find ‘you’re a star’ patronising, I used to have a colleague who always said that to me instead of a simple ‘thank you’?

Normal adult social convention is to use the words ‘please’ and ‘thank you’. Do you think you are being ‘edgy’ by not using those words? confused.

My pet hate is ‘are you all right there’ in shops or restaurants rather than a polite ‘how may I help you’ ... not quite the same as your points but irritating when people don’t use the normal, correct phrase.

(& I can still remember my grandmother teaching me the difference between ‘can’ and ‘may’ grin and what context to use them in.)

PolarBearDisguisedAsAPenguin Thu 28-Feb-19 12:47:45

Saying please and thank you isn’t difficult and is clearly what she is asking you to do. Why do you insist on not doing so? A prewritten polite sentence in an email that goes out by default and having children who are polite has nothing to do with you having the manners to speak to her in a way she is asking. YABU.

EmeraldShamrock Thu 28-Feb-19 12:50:57

Yanbu she is acting rude and entitled, I would understand if you grumbled a request, tell her to get stuffed.
You'd spend all day thanking colleague's, your DC, the car behind you.
Call her out on it. Yanbu

cabingirl Thu 28-Feb-19 12:52:00

Maras2 Also who the heck says 'I love you' to the boss/customer etc?

It's when it accidentally happens because you are absentmindedly saying what you automatically say to your spouse etc. I've said it at the end of a phone call to a stranger before - very embarrassing!

DoJo Thu 28-Feb-19 12:54:08

Personally, I would rather someone just said please or thank you rather than calling me a star like a four-year-old. She's doing her job so simple manners seems more appropriate than trying to imply that she's achieved something spectacular by passing you keys or a cash box.

I'm not sure why you seem so determined to find reasons why she might not like you other than the fact that you appear to be going out of your way not to demonstrate basic politeness.

Katterinaballerina Thu 28-Feb-19 12:54:27

It’s the adult equivalent of calling a teacher Mum grin

sweeneytoddsrazor Thu 28-Feb-19 12:54:47

Of course you should say please and thank you. It is polite. I always say it to my colleagues regardless of how I phrase the request/order.

Namechangeforthiscancershit Thu 28-Feb-19 12:55:32

I find the automatic messages on emails a bit off actually. Like you’re thanking me, but you don’t want to have to type it so you’re not THAT grateful!

MamaWeasel Thu 28-Feb-19 12:57:34

She is being a bit of an arse, but so are you. Just say please and thank you for goodness sake, it's not difficult.

HolesinTheSoles Thu 28-Feb-19 12:58:22

Oh god I've done the accidental I love you before and signed off a formal email love from <silly nickname my husband calls me>.

The reason you teach kids to say please and thank you every time is because they don't have the social skills to express gratitude in other ways. If someone does you a favour and you say "oh wow that's amazing, you're such a star" you've obviously conveyed the fact that you're thankful without explicitly saying "thank you". Only someone with severely lacking social skills would then take offence. In fact saying "please get me the cash box" comes across as much more blunt and rude than saying "When you have a moment could you grab me the cash box? That would be great!".

Katterinaballerina Thu 28-Feb-19 12:58:22

‘Can you do me a favour‘ does annoy me - just ask the damn question. Asking an adult what the ‘magic word’ sounds prissy.
You’re both unreasonable.

Namechangeforthiscancershit Thu 28-Feb-19 12:58:56

please can seem a bit demanding though depending on the context.

please double check these lists can sound lot worse than would you mind or would you have time to

Please can come with an assumption that the task will be done, which is fine in some situations but not in others.

Bagpuss5 Thu 28-Feb-19 12:59:27

I don't see the issue, I say please when I think of it. I'd have no problem saying it to an arsey colleague if it kept her happy.
Say it to everyone so she isn't getting favoured treatment.

Namechangeforthiscancershit Thu 28-Feb-19 12:59:38

Cross post with holes who explained it much better!

JenniferJareau Thu 28-Feb-19 13:01:27

If I am asking someone for a favour, I would always say please regardless of the circumstances.

WarpedGalaxy Thu 28-Feb-19 13:02:47

I would think the ‘please’ is implicit in the way you frame the request, making the word itself is redundant. That’s me though, she is obviously more of a nitpicky stickler. I wouldn’t give her the satisfaction of rising to her obvious powerplay baiting. I’d drop the ‘brilliant’ and ‘you’re a star’ too. If she’s sniffy she might view them as patronising or insincere. Just stick to ‘would you get me the keys/petty cash box please?’ And then a simple thank you when she hands them over.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:02:58

I do always say thank you though, I just haven't actually used the word please is my point. I don't know, I always assumed gratitude was more than just a word. Me coming in doing things for her and me then saying to say please can you pass the stapler, and thank you for passing the stabler 20 times or so it just a bit irking! That isn't gratitude surely? It's just a word. That's my point.

Fair enough on the star thing, I do tend to use works like stars, amazing, brilliant, fantastic etc a lot, I try to be really enthusiastic. But I just assumed using words like that was showing gratitude. So perhaps I am not as polite as I think then, I just have never ever notice someone say please can you and thank you for 20 times to the same person in an hour sort of thing. She never said thank you to me for going in for free to help.

As for the "I love you" thing, I've just heard people on her mentioned it a lot as a embarrassing mom et kind of thing.

Snog Thu 28-Feb-19 13:08:56

Don't ask for a favour as it's not a favour for her to do her job.
Just say please and thank you OP.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:09:05

@Ragwort - I'm nit sure where on Earth you found me saying I was trying to be edgy. No, that isn't something I am trying to do. I am trying to be polite and like I say I always use thank you, but it irks me when I'm giving up my time for free to get her and a paid member of staff and the school and I'm sat down with her and having to say it over and over again or be called out as a child. She never said thank you to me, not that I care.

I am aware that people will feel hostile towards me in my role, I get that, that is fine. I'm just surprised that people think gratitude is just about the word please and thank you, gratitude to me is more than that, which is why I try and show enthusiasm for her work. I can see where people are coming from saying calling her a star isn't right though.

littlepeas Thu 28-Feb-19 13:09:36

It is entirely possible to convey thanks without using the words thank you - body language and tone of voice are also really important, probably more so. It is also possible to ask for something very politely without saying please. I would just carry on as you are op - I'd be tempted to speak to her robotically, emphasising the please and thank you, but that wouldn't be very mature.

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking Thu 28-Feb-19 13:10:15

"that's great, you're a star"

^^ stop treating her like shes in Year 3 for a start and treat her like an adult. It really isnt difficult to say please and thank you is it ?

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:11:17

@Namechangeforthiscancershit - I didn't mean I've set it to that, I mean that it automatically suggests it. I always verbalise thank you, even to get, every single them. Please from the responses here I need to say please every time too.

ScreamingValenta Thu 28-Feb-19 13:12:35

'Thank you' is not the only phrase in the English language by which gratitude can be expressed.

I do think 'you're a star' and similar are often overused in the workplace.

- staying three hours late on a Friday to help you finish a task - yes, I'm indeed a star.
- passing you the stapler - a simple 'thanks' is more appropriate to my minimal level of exertion in assisting you.

rededucator Thu 28-Feb-19 13:12:35

You keep saying about having to say 'please and thank you 20 times an hour' Perhaps the problem is your asking her to pass you stuff 20 times an hour!!!!! How vast is this office? Get the stapler your bloody self!

Armadillostoes Thu 28-Feb-19 13:13:02

The problem is that this individual is now being rude to the OP, so rewarding her rudeness by complying and don't what she wants is bad for society (It encourages said woman to carry on being rude).

A compromise would be to tell her that you will use the words she likes from now on, but that it's a shame she was so inappropriate and patronising in her behaviour.

MummysBusy Thu 28-Feb-19 13:13:36

"Can you do me a favour and do x" isnt the most polite way to ask for something is it? YABU. Even if you werent, its just one woman. You need to brush it off! Ask more politely if thats what she wants.

Armadillostoes Thu 28-Feb-19 13:14:01

Sorry, should read '"complying and DOING' what she wants.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:15:24

@HolesinTheSoles that's exactly what I was trying to clumsy get across. That please is just a word and I am trying to convert gratitude in other ways otherwise it's a bit monotone when I'm sitting in an office and we are say counting money and I have to say, "please can you confirm this is £52 and thank you for doing it" it's just crazy that people apparently talk this way.

I just tend to say, "I counted this at £52, if you could confirm that would be great" and then say thanks. Because I have seriously very read dialogue that goes like suggested "please can you .... thank you". Over and over and over for every coin for example?

WarpedGalaxy Thu 28-Feb-19 13:15:37

If you’re using them a lot you’re basically rendering them meaningless, and that kind of enthusiasm often comes across excessively gushy and a bit false. I have a coworker who does similar. She’s lovely but it gets wearing, if you pass her a stapler it’s like you’ve handed her a winning lottery ticket. ‘Perfect! You’re awesome! Thank you so much!’ You can practically see the exclamation marks.

Nanny0gg Thu 28-Feb-19 13:16:24

What the hell is so hard about saying 'Please could you...' or 'Please can I have...'
And then 'Thank you ' afterwards?

Surely that's the normal way of asking?

God, I'm old!

MummysBusy Thu 28-Feb-19 13:17:43

@ reeducator has a ruddy good point, maybe you're Asking rather than Doing a bit too much, OP?

Namechangeforthiscancershit Thu 28-Feb-19 13:19:29

I didn't mean I've set it to that, I mean that it automatically suggests it

Ah that’s ok then. My mum emails me with “lots of love” auto filled so it’s a bit of a sore point grin

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:21:44

She wouldn't appreciate be going climbing behind her desk and retrieving the stapler either really.

It's not 20 times for the stapler either, it's just I'll count up trip money and ask her to counter check, I'll ask her for an envelope or stapler. I will then maybe ask for the class lists and check the children off and maybe ask a a few questions when a parent hasn't put the child's class in the list and so I might ask if she knows which class the child is in, or perhaps if we have a consent form. I might then ask for where she wants me to file something and those in particular I'm just annoyed at using please to ask she she wants something filed. I just find it monotone.

sweeneytoddsrazor Thu 28-Feb-19 13:22:48

Regarding the checking of money surely the simplest thing is to say can you check this for me please? Then a thanks when its done.

MummysBusy Thu 28-Feb-19 13:26:44

Sorry to post again OP, i just read your most recent post. Language like "^can you do me a favour and..^" and "^if you could do x that would be great, thanks^" - do you think it might sound like you're giving polite orders rather than asking for help?

Obviously you mean to ask her, but it might be coming across that you're expecting her to drop everything and comply. I can see a more sensitive person finding it grating.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:26:43

Maybe, perhaps I'm just entitled. I just really didn't think using the exact word please followed by the exact words thank you were the only ways to show gratitude. I have never in my life seen or read a dialogue that repeats the same please and thank you request over and over again in a short period of time within the same task. I given he gifts as the office staff get missed at Christmas's and end of terms. She friendly with me but several members of staff have mentioned her doing this to me. She hasn't done it to anyone else, and I've never noticed other of members of staff please and thank you excessively to her either.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:29:54

@MummysBusy - that's an interesting perspective. Maybe that's what she hears. I'm a little unsure how else to ask her. She has asked me to come in and help her with as task like trip money and we are siting down together to do it. What should I be saying. It seems REALLY passive aggressive to literally just say "please can you count this, i got £51, thanks" over and over.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:31:54

Ok, so turns out IABU.

I honestly just believed I was being really grateful. Especially when I'm giving up my time to do the school a favour.

Other people have noticed and commented to me which was why I wanted to say something witty, but clearly I am in the wrong on this occasion.

sweeneytoddsrazor Thu 28-Feb-19 13:32:24

Are they excessively asking questions or asking her to do things though? Having read your update you do seem to be asking a lot of different things. I know you are volunteering but if I was trying to do my job and somebody kept asking me things it would be a bit tiresome.

DameFanny Thu 28-Feb-19 13:36:06

Hang on - she expects you to say please when you ask her where she wants something filed?

She's batshit.

WarpedGalaxy Thu 28-Feb-19 13:36:45

You find it monotone? I’d find you exhausting. Presumably she has her other work to be getting on with. You know what you’re going to need up front if you’re doing the same tasks all the time. Organise yourself so you’re not constantly asking for this and that with your non-monotone flowery platitudes.

Get your stapler, class list, consent forms etc together upfront. If you have a query re missing names or consent forms, as you go along make a note or highlight them, then when you’ve finished ask her to check all of them. Count the money, put a post-it on each separate pile with the amount, then ask her to check them all together.

cstaff Thu 28-Feb-19 13:43:32

OP I am with you - she sounds way too over the top. You can be pleasant without having to say please and thank you before and after every bloody sentence.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:43:46

@sweeneytoddsrazor - I'm not doing my role then though, I'm helping her do hers. If that makes sense. I'm helping out in the office as we have a member of staff on suspension so she is filling in (she usually works elsewhere part time in the school). So I come in and ask if she needs help and if she does I do, it's not me asking her to do anything in particular, we are jointly counting money or checking of people off a list etc. But one of will count and the other double check as per policy.

But obviously in my other roles I do as her to open the safe or give me access to the class lists etc. Those are just asking once for for something. Except at events where I may need to come back and forth and then key for cupboard and then come back and get key for safe etc.

I obviously am aware she has her role and when I'm doing PTA stuff for example, I'm intruding, so I try to be more gushing.

But clearly from people's advice I am being rude. So I'll make sure I say it every time.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:46:37

Well I suppose not something she is thrilled to file but part of her role yes. But then she's helping the school by going full time and hasn't experience in this role. So I suppose even though I'm just helping "her" out it's just like she is helping out the school. If that makes sense. It's just she is being paid is the difference and I'm more come and go as I please.

Bluntness100 Thu 28-Feb-19 13:46:44

I have absolutely no idea why you simply can't say please, which is normal social etiquette when requesting something,

Are you in some way trying to prove authority you don't have by bossing her around and assuch you think it's beneath you to say please to her?

Either way saying please is basic manners, and if you wish to stop her calling you out on it just friggen say please.

outpinked Thu 28-Feb-19 13:49:47

It really isn’t difficult to say please and thank you though is it? I want to force adults who don’t say it to do it too because it’s both rude and extremely irritating.

zzzzz Thu 28-Feb-19 13:50:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:51:36

@WarpedGalaxy - fair enough. Maybe I am a pain. However it's me supporting her in her role and I only do it when she asks. So Im at the school a lot currently due to some major other issues, sometimes I'll call in and ask if she needs help with anything, rather than me go home and come back to get children later.

I will be less "flowery" but I can't organise myself better as I'm supporting her, so I just depends on what she needs done and like I've answered above, stapler for example is in her drawer.

I do try and write lists of anything I need to ask when I'm doing stuff for the PTA as I fully appreciate that can be disruptive for her. I have memory of a goldfish, so I write possible things I may need so it's just one ask, but your right, often it's more and that is my bad organisation.

FriarTuck Thu 28-Feb-19 13:52:56

In fact saying "please get me the cash box" comes across as much more blunt and rude than saying "When you have a moment could you grab me the cash box? That would be great!".
Totally agree with you on the first bit but I'd go with 'When you have a moment could you grab me the cash box please? Cheers'. And if I was emailing I'd possibly drop the please but have a more enthusiastic thanks straight after it.
It's just common courtesy though OP. And if you know someone values it then surely you'd make more effort to do it?

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:56:48

@Bluntness100 - I have no authority, I'm unpaid. I haven't had to involve her or ask her for anything on Governor duties.

In fact it's the other way. I'm asking her if she needs help, so I'm her subordinate. I am fully aware of the pecking order, nor do I want or have any desire to challenge that. I am there helping as I think the school and staff are great. So I support where I can. I go in as ask her if she needs help and she will give me tasks, sometimes we need to work together, hence when the issues arise and even when we don't, I'll have to ask for what things I need to complete whatever it is she needs me to do.

I fully appreciate I have been told IABU and I will definitely change to use it every time.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:57:25

@DameFanny Well I suppose not something she is thrilled to file but part of her role yes. But then she's helping the school by going full time and hasn't experience in this role. So I suppose even though I'm just helping "her" out it's just like she is helping out the school. If that makes sense. It's just she is being paid is the difference and I'm more come and go as I please.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 13:58:36

@FriarTuck - so why is ok for you to drop the please I'm an email but not verbally?

I do appreciate your example though. I'll try better.

Bluntness100 Thu 28-Feb-19 13:59:22

Fine just say please op, no matter how monotonous you find it confused

Michaelbaubles Thu 28-Feb-19 13:59:22

I’m thinking about my daily interactions with people I work closely with and if we’re all sitting near one another and need a favour I don’t think we’d say please. We might say “X, when you have a moment could you read this through for me?” - and then a thank you if if they say yes - but you’re all there to do work surely and don’t need effusiveness at any stage? The please is implicit in asking in a polite tone.

“Hey X, could you pass me that stapler that’s next to you? Cheers.” That sort of exchange is most often used. If I say “excuse me, X, please pass me the stapler when you have a moment. Thank you so much” they’d all think I’d gone mad.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 14:08:27

@Michaelbaubles - YES exactly ... that's exactly what I do and what I thought was considered normal.

But i am fully prepared to just say it from now on given the feedback on here. I have ALWAYS said thank you or thanks, I just didn't expect to have to say please every time as well when I am asking what I considered to be politely. But like I say, clear at least half the people on here consider me rude so I'll definitely try harder with her.

Joey7t8 Thu 28-Feb-19 14:10:16

I hate it when people think saying please and thank-you make it ok to ask for something in an arsey tone of voice. They’re not magic words.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 14:14:22

@Joey7t8 - I know. I've encountered a few people like that, who SAY all the right things but imply very different things with their tone, .

My Dad once taught me that one sentence can mean many different things, for example "I never said she stole the money", if you out intent on anyone of those words it can make the sentence read very differently.

It's weird in this case as she seems happy for my help, she is chatty with me but her comments have Bebe notice but i May well be because I am in the wrong. So lesson learnt.

bluegreygreen Thu 28-Feb-19 14:15:42

Please and thank you are absolute basics - that's why they are taught so early to children.

To me, asking for something without saying please sounds much more like an order, and I would find the 'gushing' gratitude you describe really annoying - it's just waffle, and isn't likely to be needed in any scenario you've described so far.

FriarTuck Thu 28-Feb-19 14:18:56

@FriarTuck - so why is ok for you to drop the please I'm an email but not verbally?
Because in the email the thank you is clearly seen straight after where the please would be so I think the thank you (in whatever form) is effectively a please and thank you in one. In conversation you might be saying thank you after someone has done something so the first bit needs an acknowledgement e.g. you say 'A, could you chuck me over the stapler please?' She passes it over. You say 'thank you'. If you'd left the please off it doesn't sound as polite and she might throw the stapler instead of passing it because she doesn't know you'll then say thank you.
As a note - if you email a request with a thank you in it, I think you should still email another thank you afterwards when the person has replied.

HollowTalk Thu 28-Feb-19 14:18:59

When my son was little he had a friend who would blurt out "Please, sorry, thank you" all the time in the hope that one of them was right grin

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 14:25:00

@FriarTuck - I do reply with thanks you after the reply or completion of task.

Thank you for explaining.

SleepingStandingUp Thu 28-Feb-19 14:25:53

Just say please.

it's just I'll count up trip money and ask her to counter check "can you count this please?" Wait for her to do it. "" Thanks!"
*I'll ask her for an envelope or stapler*" ooh can I borrow your stapler please? " wait for her to hand it you" thanks"
I will then maybe ask for the class lists "have you got a copy of the list please?" wait for her to hand it to you "thanks"

Surely that's normal manners? You don't get to opt out of being polite because you volunteer, and buying chocolates at Christmas to show your gratitude to them doesn't make it OK to be rude.

SmarmyMrMime Thu 28-Feb-19 14:26:50

Please and thank you can be said with great sarcasm in a very rude way grin

Tone and a polite manner of asking matters more to me than the exact words of please and than you.
She's been rude and patronising to talk down to you like a child, much more rude than expressing gratitude without an excplicit usage of "thank you"

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 14:29:19

@SleepingStandingUp - fair enough! Point taken! 👍

Armadillostoes Thu 28-Feb-19 14:30:26

OP YANBU-The majority of posters on here are confusing form with substance and worse encouraging pandering to this genuinely rude woman!

SleepingStandingUp Thu 28-Feb-19 14:31:17

I'm just annoyed at using please to ask she she wants something filed
Well "do you want me to file anything" isn't a please question
You don't need to ask "please can you tell me what you want filing". You just ask if there's any filing or other work to do. Then she should say"oh yeah, can you file this please?" and you say" yes sure" and she says thank you.

I just find it monotone well I find "can you" monotone so in future I'll just say"pass me the stapler" and hold my hand out. Does that work for you??

sweeneytoddsrazor Thu 28-Feb-19 14:32:13

@Michaelbaubles you can say please without all the extras though. A simple can you pass me the stapler please fred is perfectly polite and acceptable. No need for all the when you have a minute nonsense.

ReleaseTheBats Thu 28-Feb-19 14:32:43

You sound an intelligent and socially competent person OP. The fact that you are having to analyse exactly which words you use when asking for a stapler to avoid offence or being spoken to like a child suggests to me there is more going on in this situation than your manners or lack thereof. Sounds totally exhausting tbh. I'm just wondering whether the member of staff wants you to be helping her.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 14:32:47

@SmarmyMrMime - I did use thank you, I just didn't use please as well!

Given so many people said I was in the wrong I'm guessing she just thinks the same way so I'll make sure I include in future. Glad I didn't say something sarcastic now!

But I agree with you.

Wellfuckmeinbothears Thu 28-Feb-19 14:35:56

You honestly sound quite rude. I taught my children “please” and “thank you” from toddler onwards...what are you finding so difficult to grasp? “Please could you”, “thanks so much”...it’s not rocket science.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 14:36:19

@Armadillostoes - I totally agree with you. I think people clearly don't understand there are other ways to show gratitude but given so many people thought it was rude not to use the "magic words" I can safety assume she's the same and I'll just adjust.

littlemissquiet Thu 28-Feb-19 14:37:26

Saying "You're a star" isn't too bad of a replacement for thank you because you've acknowledged that she's done something to help, but... asking for a favour without saying please is a bit rude, she does sounds like she's on a power trip though so I get why you would be annoyed especially if she's talking to the kitchen staff badly too and behaving differently around senior members of staff. I would carry on as normal but adding please at the beginning, then continue the way you would normally say thanks. It was drummed into from a young age to say please and thank you and I've done the same with my children because manners are extremely important.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 14:39:57

@SleepingStandingUp - there is no reason to come over so aggressive sleeping! I agree with you and said I was clearly being unreasonable.

Hahaha88 Thu 28-Feb-19 14:45:26

I'm with you here mummyschangedhername I would feel the please is implied in the way a request is said, can you pass me the remote Hun? Is just as polite to me as please pass me the remote. In fact, to my ear, the first way is politer as it doesn't sound as much of a demand. But I think we are in the minority. I too have had a friend call me out on not saying please, despite thinking I've asked polite and the please was implied, apparently some people just need to hear the please. Perhaps they were raised differently to you and I? I would say I'm a polite person, I'm always grateful when people action a request from me, I do use the word please, Albeit not every time I ask for something, and I always say thank you. But some people just won't see it that way. I'd be extremely irked with her treating you like a child, but I guess she's as irked with you not saying the word please. I'd just bite my tongue and try to remember that she prefers the word please x

cordeliavorkosigan Thu 28-Feb-19 14:47:26

I'd be tempted to point out that she has not thanked you for your help and time, which you are giving for free. And to just be direct about it -- you don't need to be there. If she does not understand that gratitude is not equal to uttering precisely the word thanks, and regular small interactions can be requested nicely without the literal word please, and that this comes across as snide, rude and a power trip, then maybe it's time you volunteered somewhere else where you are appreciated.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 14:49:32

@ReleaseTheBats - I do agree with you. Although I ask if she needs help and she often gives me tasks. I don't think she doesn't like me, I think she's playing loyalties. The member she is covering for us suspended, along with another member of staff and the other office staff had herself signed off for the last year-ish ... she only knows what these colleagues have said to her and a lot of the gossip seems to radiate from the office and kitchen staff. I'm not sure they know the outcome of the disciplinary yet but we had to remove one member from employment. None of the staff know what we and the senior school management team do and the senior school management team have been fantastic at keeping things away from the staff and just taking the rough that comes from rumours.

I think, she's playing loyalties as she wants "in" with me but she also wants to rightly appear loyal to the staff.

So part of me thinks I should just take it on the nose as the head does but part of me wanted to stand up for myself a bit!

However, having read this thread, it could simply be that she thinks I am being impolite and really it's just easier to go along with her requests.

I think the school mess as worn me down and I think I was too ready to challenge something I clearly shouldn't have. So I am grateful people have "put me in my place". Although I still believe gratitude is more then please and thank you.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 28-Feb-19 14:51:36

@Hahaha88 - yes I'm with you. However, as you said, some people hear it differently and in this case I think I was being unreasonable and should just address her as she needs.

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