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To think db has been scammed by his ex

(362 Posts)
lurchersrool Thu 21-Feb-19 21:31:16

Db is going through a divorce. There are two children involved who he sees regularly and the divorce was triggered by his infidelity - though he's single now and insists the marriage was in trouble for years before he cheated which was certainly how it looked from the outside tbf.

Anyway, the point is there was fault on both sides but I feel he has been royally shafted by the way the finances have been dealt with. He and I were both given £80k by df in order to buy property. That was about 12 years ago, just before the crash. Db and exsil had just got together but they bought the property together, despite df raising some concerns about it. I don't know all the ins and outs but they had a fair bit of work done on the property which involved re-mortgaging and a couple of years ago moved to a bigger house.

Apparently the situation now is that the amount of equity is so little that there is no point in selling and they have no other assets so db can't get his £80k, or even half of it back. Ex sil has said the most the bank can lend her is £20k, and even that she's saying will partly need to cover her legal costs, so he's going to end up with a pittance. I think it's a joke. She has a well-paid job while db has no real career as such. He has back problems from an injury he got years ago and has always struggled to hold down permanent jobs. He looked after one of the dc for a year as a baby so ex sil could go back to work, but now he's being left with nothing, well nothing aside from a share of her pension but he obviously won't get that for years so nothing really tangible.

It just seems so wrong. He refused to get a solicitor although I had offered to help pay, and I know df is beside himself worrying about db's future. He thought the £80k would at least see him in secure housing but now it seems to have gone and db is back to shitty bedsits. To make it worse she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful. Normally I always think men should pay for their kids but this woman has a well-paid job and db literally has nothing. AIBU to think she shouldn't be putting in this claim and db has been treated really badly here?

fillmyglassplease Thu 21-Feb-19 21:36:49

He should have thought about this before shagging around.

showerpower Thu 21-Feb-19 21:37:43

He cheated

LaurieFairyCake Thu 21-Feb-19 21:39:33

The cheating is irrelevant legally

He's been supported by her for how long? Guessing she's earned and put in more than that 80k hmm over all these years while he didn't work?

Traveler001 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:40:18

No matter who is paid more or if the divorce is ‘fair’ or anything else the NRP should always pay the RP maintenance for the children.

LaurieFairyCake Thu 21-Feb-19 21:40:48

This is a reverse right?

flamingofridays Thu 21-Feb-19 21:40:53

What was he expecting?

SofaSurfer20 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:40:59

So your brother bought a house with someone he'd just started dating. Then a few years later got caught sticking his dick in another woman and now is complaining about how he'll get pittance?

Not smartest cookie in the jar is he?

Crystalintheeyes Thu 21-Feb-19 21:41:04

So they have decided to remortgage enough times that there is now no equity. Which was a joint decision I guess.
He shagged around..
And now he’s moaning as he has to pay for his children?

Skincaresos Thu 21-Feb-19 21:41:10

Meh. He cheated and doesn't work. Who do the DC live with?

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking Thu 21-Feb-19 21:43:03

How has he been 'scammed' ?

The mortgage was increased, thus freeing up equity - his £80k - to do works on the house. So if the equity is so little, he sits tight, and waits for it to increase again, and sells when the kids are 18.

To make it worse she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful

You are of course having a laugh if you think he should pay towards his offsprings up bringing ?

LuckyLou7 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:43:14

No sympathy here, I'm afraid. You say DB has rarely worked, and then cheated on her. Karma has been kind, I'd say.

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking Thu 21-Feb-19 21:44:04

*should not pay
typo

Stompythedinosaur Thu 21-Feb-19 21:44:45

If the house has devalued to a point they have no equity, then that is not his partners fault.

Of course he has to pay maintainance, he can't opt out of his responsibilities as a father!

19lottie82 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:45:14

Even if he did get a solicitor I doubt a court would force a sale until the eldest child was at least 18.

lurchersrool Thu 21-Feb-19 21:45:42

Right, so because he cheated that means he has no rights?

Where have I said she supported him? she earned more but I'd say he did more childcare than her, as I've said there was a good year when he did it all.

Just doesn't seem right that he gets given 80k then ends up with nothing.

The dc live with her and will always have to now as he can't afford to house them properly hmm.

Snappedandfarted2019 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:46:52

biscuit you and you’re dh are pieces of work

Snappedandfarted2019 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:47:43

He didn’t work and looked after one dc for a year get a grip.

mineofuselessinformation Thu 21-Feb-19 21:47:51

I'm not sure what the axe you have to grind here, OP.
If your dbro won't get legal advice, even minimally, that's his choice.

CloserIAm2Fine Thu 21-Feb-19 21:48:11

Why is he incapable of holding down a job?

He’s not been scammed, that’s ridiculous. He’s living with his choices.

Stompythedinosaur Thu 21-Feb-19 21:48:34

But his ex hasn't taken his 80k, it has been lost by house price changes and them re-mortgaging! Yes, it is crap, but it isn't a scam.

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking Thu 21-Feb-19 21:48:59

Just doesn't seem right that he gets given 80k then ends up with nothing.

He spunked his 80K on house improvements and remortgaging.

Although I'd like to know how he spent it, with absolutely no increased value on the house.

Has the house been revalued ?

Someone is telling porkies - or having fast cars and expensive holidays or a drug habit

LuckyLou7 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:49:37

He looked after the DC for one single year? What a hero. He still has to pay maintenance for them.

showerpower Thu 21-Feb-19 21:50:48

He spent the 80k on the house, spending more than it was worth by the sounds of things, she's been the main earner supporting the family, he's being expected to help support his own children, he'll still get part of her pension (does he have his own that she's entitled to ??). He also cheated. What's not fair ??

Intohellbutstayingstrong Thu 21-Feb-19 21:53:08

Is his ex going through the CSA? Is he earning anything at all? I would imagine any maintenance payments would be minimal if he has a very limited income

sue51 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:53:21

No sympathy at all for your DB. Why do you think he should not be asked to support his own children?

Ncaa Thu 21-Feb-19 21:54:41

make it worse she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful
Yeah what a bitch, thinking their father should contribute confused

fullofcoldahhhh Thu 21-Feb-19 21:54:45

MN are incredible... if it was the other way round and the wife had stayed at home and looked after the kids it'd be all "she gave up her career , she has reduced pension now , she's the primary career she should stay in the house with the kids"

He cheated , that doesn't mean he should lose all of his money, if he hadn't cheated and she had decided that she had ended the relationship, should he have his money back then?

ILoveMaxiBondi Thu 21-Feb-19 21:55:45

He spent the £80K! He did home improvements and bought new houses. Did he genuinely think he could spend money and then it would still be there when he wanted it back? confused who educated him about how spending money works?

Kintan Thu 21-Feb-19 21:56:08

So in essence he has contributed £80k to a house for his children to live in. Can't see anything wrong with that. Also I can't believe you are advocating for him not paying maintenance - so they are living with their mother who does the bulk of the child rearing then, as well as her having a job, and you think your brother should not contribute? Your parents did a great job of instilling values into you both didn't they!

lifebegins50 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:56:25

Thd equity is gone so that's why he is not getting anything. They must have bought very badly if they still haven't recovered any equity despite improving the property. Is the valuation correct? Did he get 3 quotes?

He is getting a pension share and he is foolish to think its worthless. How much is he getting?

Women are always advised to get some of the pension. Hd is paying cms, it really isn't a major amount. If they have 1 child he will live on 90% of his salary..that's not a bad deal.

NCforthis2019 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:56:48

he looked after HIS OWN CHILDREN for 1 year?! What a stand up guy.

Sorry - he has to pay maintenance either way - they are his children. Maybe he needs to grow up and get a job instead eh.

The 80k was put back into the house (his choice) - how is that being scammed? Sorry but your cheating brother has no claim here.

Livelovebehappy Thu 21-Feb-19 21:57:26

She hasn’t scammed him. The house is providing a home for his DCs, at least until they are 18, and then I guess the house would be sold and equity split. Sounds like he wouldn’t be able to stay in the house and meet the bills and mortgage anyway because he can’t hold down a full time job. And you really think she’s going to have it easy being a single parent to the DCs?

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey Thu 21-Feb-19 21:57:40

Q

PrestonsFlowers Thu 21-Feb-19 21:58:31

If she earned more then she has been supporting him. He's made some pretty stupid financial decisions and now he's paying the price.
He should pay for his children. Can't see how he's been scammed at all

Blackbear10 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:59:44

Both your ex SIL and DB should get solicitors involved.
It’s really the only way to make sure nobody is shafted in the long term.

NCforthis2019 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:59:50

Yeah she scammed him, right from the word go, she knew he had some money, tricked him into buying a house, then purposely got pregnant, then made him cheat on her, thereby triggering a divorce and hence getting to stay in the house she wanted him to buy in the first place, all to get the 80k.

Or - karma is a bitch.

Monty27 Thu 21-Feb-19 21:59:51

He's a bank of df cheating ass.
Too tight to see a lawyer too.
The most you could do is post this in legal here.
Also how old are DC's?
Not enough information and even you have said you don't know the ins and outs.
You sound biased towards db and not the cheated on sil. You say exsil but they haven't even been to a lawyer to negate the marriage vows?
Your post lacks factual info.

WorraLiberty Thu 21-Feb-19 21:59:56

Just doesn't seem right that he gets given 80k then ends up with nothing.

Leave aside his cheating as the reason for their split is pretty irrelevant here.

He decided to invest 80k into a house with someone he'd only been dating a short time, then as their relationship grew and they had DC, that money got swallowed up in the property.

That's completely normal tbh and tends to happen in the property chain. He would have known that and despite your dad's reservations, still went ahead.

That money is long gone and I don't think you should dwell on it, on his behalf.

As for his children, of course he should pay for them. It's never ok not to.

OlennasWimple Thu 21-Feb-19 22:00:11

Cheating is irrelevant here

How has he been scammed? Are you implying that he was tricked into buying a house that then fell prey to house price fluctuations?

And why shouldn't he pay maintenance? If he isn't earning anything, he won't be paying anything... (Poor ex-SiL and kids)

Loseitandkeepitlost Thu 21-Feb-19 22:00:49

He still owns 50%of the house. If there isn’t £80l of equity in it now it’s because they spent it when they remortgaged and released funds.

He should support his children.

NoCauseRebel Thu 21-Feb-19 22:00:54

The reasons for the split are irrelevant. And the quote that the court won’t let the house be sold until the youngest is eighteen is a myth.

If they have property together the courts can insist that the property be sold and the equity divided. Equally if he is the stay at home parent SIL will be liable for relinquishing equity in the property if there is any, or to buy him out if she wants to remain in the house...

In terms of his paying maintenance, if he has the financial means then he is liable for maintenance depending on the contact arrangements between them. But if he’s not earning then it may not be that straightforward.

WRT the inheritance, this is a bit of a grey area as inheritances generally don’t count towards the division of assets during a split, but he would need to see a solicitor for that due to the fact that the inheritance was invested into joint property.

But it’s simply not true or fair to suggest that he should just relinquish all money from the marriage because of the reasons for the split. The courts are not interested in such things,and he needs to seek some legal advice.

lurchersrool Thu 21-Feb-19 22:00:57

Gosh people are harsh. Love how everyone's jumped on the cheating and ignored the but about the marriage being ropey anyway. For all we know she cheated too...

I'm worried about him and my dad. DB is a great dad but he's not going to see much of the dc at this rate as he has nowhere decent to take them. And yes, I get that he's responsible for the dc but surely it balances out - she's keeping the house, which will presumably get more equity over time and yet he will only ever get this tiny amount and has to get money out of nowhere for the dc. If he had plenty of money I would obviously think he should pay some to her, but he has none.

And I love people making comments about me - yes, it's s crime to worry about my brother.

Hiphopopotamous Thu 21-Feb-19 22:01:46

They've JOINTLY made whatever stupid decisions have lost all the equity, and of course your DB should move out and pay maintenance, it sounds like he wouldn't be able to run the house on his salary.

Butteredghost Thu 21-Feb-19 22:04:57

You are right that legally cheating doesn't come in to it. However please also consider how investments (including in property) legally work. You choose to invest money, and you may or may not get money back. You can't just say "oh well I put 80k in and I've changed my mind so I'd like it back".

They jointly decided to invest money and it hasn't paid off (yet), not sure why that is ex SILs fault. She is in the same situation. What are you saying? She should just borrow 80k and give it to her CPOS ex? So she's 80k in the hole and with a house worth nothing? What about all the money she has put in?

And sorry but looking after ONE dc for ONE year? I dont think that means ex wife is in debt to him forever. Anyway who looked after dc the rest of the time and had to take a career break from maternity leave to have them.

NoCauseRebel Thu 21-Feb-19 22:05:20

If she earned more then she has been supporting him. He's made some pretty stupid financial decisions and now he's paying the price. to be fair women are advised all the time that if their partners have been supporting them then they should be entitled to more from the split due to e.g. inability to earn the same etc etc. In fact the fact a woman hasn’t been working in many instance will entitle her to spousal maintenance, so I wouldn’t be a quick to advise that because a woman has been supporting him he should just suck it up because it may not work like that, especially if he’s unable to return to work due to e.g. disability or illness.

Bambamber Thu 21-Feb-19 22:06:01

Is your brother working now considering he is no longer being a stay at home dad?

TheDarkPassenger Thu 21-Feb-19 22:06:31

I don’t see the issue with him being the SAHP. It’s pretty sad that just cos he was the dad doing it that suddenly he was lazy and didn’t work.

However, he spent the money, the money has gone. That’s what happens when you spend money. And that’s what happens when you dip your wick around. I kind of want to high five her.

And he needs to pay for his kids, cos that’s just fucking in-sayyyyyyyyne

Oswin Thu 21-Feb-19 22:07:14

Fullofcold that's not what's happened though is it. He did the care for a year. The same as the ex. With the time out she would have had on maternity she would have done the same.
So no he's not a poor sahp who's been shafted.

Schuyler Thu 21-Feb-19 22:07:39

Even people on benefits have to pay towards their own children. Do you seriously think he is exempt? Also, she didn’t just get the house, it’s to ensure a secure roof over the heads of your DNs.

ralphfromlordoftheflies Thu 21-Feb-19 22:07:46

But even if they were still together he wouldn't have any equity? So you expect her to get an 80k loan to give to him because the housing market, something entirely beyond her control, has swallowed up his equity? Are you fucking serious? I can't believe she's even trying to give him 20k. AND you think he shouldn't pay maintenance for his children because diddums can't be arsed holding down a job?

You are all shades of unreasonable and a disgrace to women, colluding with shit like this from lazy, selfish men.

Amanduh Thu 21-Feb-19 22:08:36

Just lol.
Spiteful because he won’t pay for his children?
Hahahahahahah

NCforthis2019 Thu 21-Feb-19 22:09:35

But we dont know that she cheated. What we DO know is HE cheated, so you can add doubt into our heads now about what she might and not have done, but its not a fact...

If he is a great father, then what he must do now is look for a stable job and find some form of housing, for him and the children. You, as a caring sister, maybe can help with CV writing or helping advise him re getting a job.

AuntieStella Thu 21-Feb-19 22:10:26

It seems like he has made a series of poor decisions.

The latest of which is his refusal to se a solicitor to work out what is indeed a fair deal. The DC need to be housed and paid for. Maybe the house should be sold, so each spouse can have a less expensive property so the DC can live with either/both. It's not fair that he, the primary caregiver, is now in a bedsit and presumably unable to have them live with him at all. He needs proper legal and financial advice.

You can't do anything about his previous poor decisions. But you can do everything you can to prevent him making yet another one - get him to see a solicitor

Oswin Thu 21-Feb-19 22:11:17

Op how exactly has he been scammed. If there is no equity then there is nothing to be done. Sell the house for fuck all seems ridiculous. What else should she do?

lurchersrool Thu 21-Feb-19 22:11:51

DC are 7 & 5. When I say he looked after one for a year, I mean in that time it was all he did and he had no other work at all. It's obviously not the only time he's looked after them he's very hands on while ex sil is more of a career person. I'd say db is more of a natural dad, but yes I am biased on that one.

So people seem to be saying he will get a share of the house later on when the equity increases. That's not what he's said but I'll get him to check as that would be something.

Someone said sil has no solicitor - she bloody has and they've also done mediation. Sil got all three valuations - could db contest those? Don't know if it's too late though - think they're waiting to get it signed off by a judge, but db is pretty vague about how it all works. I can see him sliding right down after this.

Bouledeneige Thu 21-Feb-19 22:12:35

I dont fully understand his situation but he is entitled to 50% of the house, and any other assets and there should be equalisation of pensions pots. The best thing they can do is sell the house and split the money and each buy what they can afford as a result. if his XW cannot afford to buy out his share.

Whomever has fuller time care for the children is entitled to child support. But if your DB splits child care 50/50 which presumably he can if he's not really working, then no spousal maintenance would be required.

However, your DB may be entitled to spousal support if his XW earns way more than him.

So unless he had a pre-nup to protect his wealth the money was sunk into the house and that will need to be shared.

He absolutely needs to see a lawyer. It helps improve the prospects for moving forward with your life if you dont feel bitter or that you got a raw deal. It doesnt really sound like he or you fully understand the principles of division of assets in divorce.

Oswin Thu 21-Feb-19 22:13:47

Auntie Stella he's not the main carer is he though. He was for a year. But with two children and maternity leave the mother probably did more than a year.

MollysLips Thu 21-Feb-19 22:14:24

He shouldn't knock the pension. If he's not going to be working much from now on, he'll need a decent pension. So he'll make the money back in the future.

Oswin Thu 21-Feb-19 22:15:34

Bouledeneige they have no equity in the house. If they sell there will be barely anything to split.

OlennasWimple Thu 21-Feb-19 22:15:53

she's keeping the house, which will presumably get more equity over time and yet he will only ever get this tiny amount and has to get money out of nowhere for the dc

If she is keeping the house, she needs to buy him out

Or do you mean that she will be living in the house but it remains legally owned by both of them? In which case, he will get his half of the proceeds from selling the house in due course

HeyCarrieAnneWhatsYourGame Thu 21-Feb-19 22:16:22

This is a definite case of “it is what it is” 🤷🏼‍♀️ House prices are what they are, the marriage has broken down, the non-resident parent needs to pay maintenance. The house will increase in value again. Until then, while the children are young, they’re the priority.

edwinbear Thu 21-Feb-19 22:17:29

He made a bad property investment and lost his £80k. That’s not being scammed, it’s just poor judgement.

lurchersrool Thu 21-Feb-19 22:18:42

Does giving him less than £20k count as buying him out? I mean he put in the £80k, their house be worth at least twice that but there's not the equity. So it's just tough titties as that's all it's worth now, but if he hung on a bit longer in the marriage and the equity grew he'd get more? It's madness?

JustmeandtheKIDS2 Thu 21-Feb-19 22:20:57

It doesn't work like that. If he wanted to take the 80k back out then when he put it in he should have got legal advise and had it ring fenced, which he did not. This money has now gone, legally he carnt do anything about it.
Iv just been through a divorce and as the children live with me it was a 60/40% split in my favour.
Yes he should 100% pay child maintenance, how much she earns is irrelevant, he needs to find a way of supporting his children financially. Unfortunately lots of people live in shitty accommodation when they divorce, its just the way it is.
It is hard when a couple split but regardless of the fact he had an affair, your finances do pretty much get halfed, which is hard.

IAmNotAWitch Thu 21-Feb-19 22:21:16

Shrug, she no longer has any obligation to care about him. His accommodation and finances are not her problem.

Her children are her obligation. If DH and I split I would do whatever I could to ensure they have everything they need.

DH would be on his own, as your brother is.

He should get a lawyer if he thinks it is unfair.

Chewbecca Thu 21-Feb-19 22:21:43

If there is nothing to share, his share of nothing is nothing.

He needs to provide for his kids.

There is not much more to it than that.

adaline Thu 21-Feb-19 22:22:08

He made stupid financial decisions and now he's paying the price. He shouldn't have bought a house with someone he barely knew!

reallyanotherone Thu 21-Feb-19 22:23:50

Yep, happened to my db- only she cheated on him.

Knowing they were going to split, she persuaded him to remortgage and get a load of work done on the house.

Came to divorce, no equity, all she could raise in her own name was 10k, which is what db got. She kept the 250k house with the kids and new bloke.

Court wouldn’t make her sell as it would make kids homeless.

20 years later and dbro never got back on the housing ladder. Relationship with kids suffered because he could never do overnights.

It is what it is. If the money won’t stretch to two suitable accommodations it will be split unevenly to house any children.

FrogFairy Thu 21-Feb-19 22:24:34

Years ago when a couple got divorced it was fairly common for the wife and children to remain in the marital home until the youngest child left full time education. It would then be sold and the proceeds split. Don’t hear of that nowadays.

A similar arrangement could work as surely the house would appreciate in value and build equity over the next 13 years. Better than selling now with no equity - 50% of nothing is nothing.

FuerzaAreaUruguay Thu 21-Feb-19 22:26:21

World's Smallest Violin playing here.

Wakk Thu 21-Feb-19 22:27:51

He's obviously a bit stupid to not have a solicitor involved but maybe he feels bad for cheating.

If I was his wife I'd take as much as I could too in that circumstance.

NotStayingIn Thu 21-Feb-19 22:28:02

What is his reason for not seeing a solicitor? Odd no, for someone being shafted? I get that you are worried about your brother and upset for your father, but you are making rather large assumptions here.

They may have lost that £80k due to living above their means / making unwise decisions. She might have financially carried him for years. Given she is the mother of your nieces/nephews I would keep encouraging him to see a solicitor, but tone down the outrage a bit as you can't be sure what the real state of affairs is.

ColdFingered Thu 21-Feb-19 22:30:20

I must be getting old. You know, the person I feel most sorry for is the father, who gave £80k of his hard-earned money, for it to be gobbled up by poor investment and remortgaging.

OlennasWimple Thu 21-Feb-19 22:30:21

Of course £20k isn't "buying him out" - unless the house is worth £40k, therefore that's his half covered

Which is why he needs to get proper legal advice ASAP before he signs stuff that cannot be undone later, except at great expense to all parties

AcrossthePond55 Thu 21-Feb-19 22:31:34

If he refuses to see a solicitor to see if he's getting a fair deal, then he deserves what he gets. It's that simple.

And what Justme said is true, if your DB didn't protect his initial investment in the house, then he doesn't get it back. 'Buy out' amounts are based on the value and the equity of the house at the time of the divorce, period. The division also has nothing to do with the grounds for divorce. The fact that he cheated doesn't enter into it.

He was a shit to cheat regardless of the state of the marriage at the time. The honourable thing would have been to have left when he realized he no longer loved his wife and no longer wanted to be in the marriage.

DorothyZbornak Thu 21-Feb-19 22:31:35

Are you serious? He cheated on his wife and broke up their marriage. By the sound of things the poor woman has been working her backside off for years trying to support him and now you think he's being 'scammed' because he might have to pay maintenance towards his own kids?

You sound exactly like my MIL when her son and his wife split up. They too split up because he was shagging someone else. He left his wife and 7 year old child and fucked off to another country with his bit on the side. His wife had a breakdown a couple of years later and yet as far as MIL was concerned it was all her fault because "Well, she obviously wasn't making him happy so he had to look elsewhere" hmm

CanILeavenowplease Thu 21-Feb-19 22:31:46

To make it worse she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful. Normally I always think men should pay for their kids but this woman has a well-paid job and db literally has nothing

You, OP, are the reason so many men get away with not supporting their children. He has no current childcare responsibilities. The children have two parents. It is far from spiteful to expect both parents to make some kind of contribution. Why is his ex left with both caring for the children and supporting them? Even a minimum wage job would make a difference.

Many people walk away from divorce with nothing. Shit happens. Or the children’s fault, is it?

Coronapop Thu 21-Feb-19 22:35:44

Not sure what he would expect TBH, since there are no assets. He needs to try and get a decent job.

Popandcrackle Thu 21-Feb-19 22:36:16

The thing is she hasn’t been given a house. She’s been given a mortgage on a property that she would financially worse off to sell. Plus she’s going to raise his children with little financial input from him either. So no, I don’t think he’s been scammed

bullyingadvice2017 Thu 21-Feb-19 22:37:54

They are always in a marriage that's on the rocks already shaggers arnt they? Well no shit Sherlock. If he was in a ropey marriage why wasn't he adult enough and respecting his wife and kids enough to get out of that relationship first.
Thinking with his dick once again!

Also it dosent actually sound as if your bro has asked for your outrage or advice. Maybe pipe down and wind your neck in and let them deal with it between themselves.

lurchersrool Thu 21-Feb-19 22:38:12

I just think some people are missing the point. I would never see my dns go without but they won't as their mother can easily support them. DB will end up contributing a pittance because that'll be all he can afford and it'll make fuck all difference to their standard of living. That's why I think it's spiteful and she's doing it just to make a point. Anyway, people have given some legal pointers I'm grateful for so I'll try again to get his to see a sol. I just don't think someone should be punished for life for a simple mistake.

And thank you to the poster who feels sorry for my dad. It is pretty heartbreaking - tbh db has caused him a fair bit of worry over the years and I'm sorry he's had to see him end up in this shit position sad.

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 21-Feb-19 22:39:13

If he has agreed to accept £20k, then yes it does count as her buying him out.

I'm sorry your DB is a total fucking eejit OP, but he is. He wrecked his marriage, he invested the money your dad gave him badly, he didn't get a solicitor for his divorce. He's an adult making stupid decision after stupid decision and that's all on him. Not his ExW.

myhamsteratefreddiestarr Thu 21-Feb-19 22:40:17

The starting point is 50/50 but she may get more if she’s housing the DC .

If there is no equity then there’s nothing he can take. There will only be equity in the future as the mortgage is paid off , by her....

Half of nothing is nothing OP. It doesn’t matter what he put in if the equity is no longer there.

As for maintenance , he should be paying minimum CSA. Full stop.

IndieTara Thu 21-Feb-19 22:41:58

Who is paying the mortgage?

CanILeavenowplease Thu 21-Feb-19 22:43:38

I would never see my dns go without but they won't as their mother can easily support them

Big of you. Standing by and watching someone else support your nieces and then complaining about it.

I can easily support my children. My ex hasn’t paid a penny in 10 years. But the point is, they have 2 parents, and 2 parents should be contributing towards their upbringing. I didn’t make them on my own. They were a joint venture. He expects to have a relationship with them. Why does he get off scottfree from supporting them?

The answer is because people like you think it’s acceptable. It isn’t. Not at all. It’s you who’s missing the point.

HennyPennyHorror Thu 21-Feb-19 22:43:44

There's no equity because they remortgaged as a couple...what did he think would happen? That the money would magically appear again?

I am sorry but this sort of thing drives me MAD. I watched a close friend do the same thing...now they're trapped and when the DH can't be a builder anymore because he's too old, they won't be able to pay for their house.

All so they could have a new kitchen and all that.

I'd KILL to own a house. Wouldn't care if the bathroom was old....the thought of remortgaging just to have a new kitchen or whatever is madness!

NCforthis2019 Thu 21-Feb-19 22:44:49

How on earth is what she is doing spiteful?! She's asking for him to pay for his children, which is fair and legal!!!! A simple mistake? Maybe if your husband did that to you, you wouldnt think it was a simple mistake - hes broken up his family through cheating and his children have lost whatever stability they once had. Feel sorry for the kids - not your brother. Its amazing how blind you have been in this OP - blindly being loyal to your brother is very silly, considering he is the main person to blame in this shit show.

Yes - your father shouldn't be made to worry but thats what parents do i suppose. I hope it gets better for him (your father)

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 21-Feb-19 22:46:17

...but db is pretty vague about how it all works.
No, he's being vague when he talks to you about how it all works so you feel sorry for him and see him as a victim. He's not a victim, he's a fuckwit.

wafflyversatile Thu 21-Feb-19 22:47:01

He needs to see a solicitor, fully set out the situation, and get proper advice.

There are lots of different ways to divide assets and share parenting when a couple splits. E.g. the family home can be sold, residency of the children can be 50/50. The cheating is irrelevant.

Crystalintheeyes Thu 21-Feb-19 22:47:08

He needs to Pay for his bloody children!! It doesn’t matter how much she earns.

He was the one that was more interested in getting his dick wet. Now he has to pay the price. Tough shit.

user1479305498 Thu 21-Feb-19 22:50:03

Feel sorry for your dad

JustmeandtheKIDS2 Thu 21-Feb-19 22:51:16

I know you just want to protect your brother, but i think your missing the point tbh. He has put him self in this position and thats something you carnt ignore. The truth of it is that the sympathy needs to go to her as he was the one who had the affair.
I understand why he may feel angry about the 80K but yet again he should only be angry with himself, angry he didnt take legal advise about it before he just chucked it in the pot.
The fact she has done well for her self in her career should not detract from his legal responsibility to financially provide for his child.
Hes messed up big time, he needs to take responsibility for this. It is sad on your father, but yet again he should only be angry with his son.

Schuyler Thu 21-Feb-19 22:53:41

When they’re older, do you want your brother to be able to look into the eyes of his children and say “I didn’t have much money but I gave you what was owed and what was morally right” or do you want him to make petty excuses? If he wants a good long-relationship with those little ones, he needs to step up and parent and yes, that includes paying his “pittance”.

I do feel sorry for your dad and also your DN as they are innocent in this.

GreenTulips Thu 21-Feb-19 22:54:36

Is he having the children while she works or is she paying childcare as well?
It’s no ones fault the house has no equity is it? It’s just the market.

He can keep his share until such time that they sell ( when the kids are out of education) and get his equity then

But he needs to get a job and stick at it

Thesnobbymiddleclassone Thu 21-Feb-19 22:56:33

He should have been wiser with the money in the first place, especially as the relationship was so new at the time.

As for the cheating, we'll what goes around comes around. The wife was always going to make sure she came off better after that.

BoomBoomsCousin Thu 21-Feb-19 23:06:34

Your DB really ought to get himself a solicitor and he should get at least one valuation on his own behalf. It's difficult for people going through a divorce to understand all the ins and outs of what can be done or to think about the long term consequences. His Ex's solicitor will look at this for her but won't pay any attention to his long term needs and if he is disabled by his back he may have some needs that ought to be considered in the settlement, though I think the security of the kids will be a priority.

The money thing is harsh but unless the valuations are actually way, way, off (which seems unlikely from 3 different sources) - he made a bad investment, compounded with later decisions by the sounds of it, and lost the money. It's a huge shame but if there is no equity in the house it's hard to see how he's being conned. His Ex is probably also upset at the loss of capital if shes been working hard earning good money and it's all just disappeared too.

What I don't understand is why your DB is letting the kids stay with his ex if he was the main carer. How much of a main carer was he? You mentioned a year when he was a sahd, but there have been 6 other years with kids - did his ex not take maternity leave for any of those? And now, who does the majority of the care and carries the mental load regarding the kids' needs? Because if it's almost all your DB shouldn't he really be to looking into maintaining that position?

altiara Thu 21-Feb-19 23:08:51

YABU. He’s definitely not been scammed. He’s just made a number of bad decisions eg 1) buying a house with a practical stranger and not protecting his money 2) remortgaging and buying a bigger house when he doesn’t even have a stable job/can’t work due to injury 3) cheating 4) giving you a sob story so that you think ex is being spiteful. Even though he’s only going to give his children a pittance for maintenance, you think they don’t even deserve that! (Fortunately you’re not their parent).
Even if they were still together- there is still no obvious 80k and the ex doesn’t just ‘get’ the house, she is actually paying the mortgage and if she sells the house, she still won’t magic tons of money out of the air if there is a big mortgage.
Your dad gave him the money, that was his choice. It was then your brother’s choice to make bad decisions.

whiteroseredrose Thu 21-Feb-19 23:13:12

I do feel sorry for your dad. It's hard for a parent to accept that their child hasn't amounted to much. A dear friend is in the same situation as your DB's wife. Effectively she's supported him for years. It was actually a vast relief when he cheated and left. His parents helped with a deposit but she's been paying the mortgage and all bills for nearly 20 years so has contributed a lot more.

DF's solicitor said that the starting point in a divorce is 50:50. If there's not much equity then that's that. If he isn't earning much, it's not his ex wife's fault

Whereareyouspot Thu 21-Feb-19 23:16:06

She presumably will still have to work to oat the mortgage on this property that currently has almost no equity
Whilst providing resident childcare
And paying off the extra 20k loan to give him the cash

In MANY years time if the market improves she might sell and doom but she will have had to lay the mortgage too in all that time

Why hasn’t he worked?

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