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To think that Martina Navratilova should NOT lose her job at the BBC and that the BBC is biased?

(275 Posts)
TeamNavratilova Mon 18-Feb-19 23:00:54

On Sunday, Martina Navratilova had an article published in the Sunday Times, giving her views on the inclusion of transwomen (biological males who identify as being women) in women’s sport:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-rules-on-trans-athletes-reward-cheats-and-punish-the-innocent-klsrq6h3x?shareToken=45bc9997e063aaf79646a7f12a7363a6

The BBC subsequently decided to have a discussion item on this on 5 Live and invited Dr Nicola Williams from Fair Play for Women - fairplayforwomen.com - to speak on Martina’s side of the argument along with Rachel McKinnon (a male-bodied cyclist who identifies as a woman and now holds a cycling world title in women’s cycling).

Rachel McKinnon refused to appear on the show if Dr Williams was on so the BBC’s response was to uninvite Dr Williams and instead interview Rachel McKinnon along with another trans sportsperson who agreed with Rachel. The other side of the argument (along with all facts about the physical differences between male and female bodies which Dr Williams could have provided) was not covered and both interviewees were asked (on the BBC, by a BBC presenter) whether the BBC should fire Martina to which they both replied yes: twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1097417280084951040 McKinnon has continued to argue for this online.

AIBU to think that Martina should not lose her commentating job at the BBC for expressing her (considered, researched) views and that the BBC has behaved in a biased and unethical way, firstly, by only presenting one side of an argument on a discussion show and, secondly, by using the opportunity to put forward the idea that Martina should be sacked?

IHeartKingThistle Tue 19-Feb-19 00:12:37

I still can't quite believe this happened today.

IHeartKingThistle Tue 19-Feb-19 00:13:09

I mean, it happened, but FUCK.

donquixotedelamancha Tue 19-Feb-19 00:18:18

If they fire her they will peak trans the whole country

They won't fire openly her over this issue, but they may quietly sideline and then drop her.

I generally think the allegations of bias against the BBC (on many subjects) are wildly exaggerated; but in this case the interview was very poor. Rachel McKinnon was interviewed without any challenge- despite the fact that she has harassed Navratilova for weeks.

The interviewer started from the presumption that Navratilova is transphobic (despite years of support for trans rights and friendship with transwomen) and then asked twice whether she should be sacked. I'd be pissed off if a colleague was soliciting my sacking.

What I find most irritating is the total refusal to actually look at the argument Navratilova was making. If someone of her stature and expertise can't discuss whether women should have the right to their own sports, then who can?

Peregrina Tue 19-Feb-19 00:34:17

I was really pleased to see Martina speaking out - at last I thought, a respected sportswoman being allowed to state the truth. How wrong I was.

Those of you who are a bit older, do you remember all those huge Russian and E European field athletes, who were no doubt drugged up to the eyeballs, but were pawns of the regimes? This wasn't fair, so how is a man 'identifying' as a woman fair? Will we see women who 'identify' as men being easily admitted to male bastions e.g. some golf clubs still. Somehow, I don't think so.

GrimDamnFanjo Tue 19-Feb-19 00:49:26

She's a fucking legend. The first out lesbian I was ever aware of. So pleased she's not been cowed.

ErrolTheDragon Tue 19-Feb-19 01:09:19

They should keep Navratilova and give less airtime to bullying cheats, and never again have a discussion about women's sports with all males.hmm

Judashascomeintosomemoney Tue 19-Feb-19 01:20:34

If they fire her they will peak trans the whole country
Maybe, but if the ‘whole country’ just do a collective eye roll and carry on as normal then the BBC won’t give a flying. I’m currently deciding what I can get elsewhere so I don’t have to buy a licence anymore. Once I’ve worked it out, and it will happen, I’ll stop paying. You should all do that too. There must be so many people doing this anyway, for myriad reasons, that the BBC are moronic for giving us yet another reason to bury them.

Judashascomeintosomemoney Tue 19-Feb-19 01:23:16

Oh, and my reasoning is actually nothing to do with Martina and everything to do with the prick they gave airtime to earlier today on Jeremy Vine regarding the Castor Semenya debate. I can’t even......

NotBadConsidering Tue 19-Feb-19 02:10:55

They won't fire openly her over this issue, but they may quietly sideline and then drop her.

There is no way Martina would allow this to happen. She is a proper legend and champion who will be strong enough to stand her ground. If she feels she’s being “moved on” I reckon she will walk, and tell everyone why. She’s amazing. So a big fuck you to McKinnon, the BBC and the Guardian for denigrating her while she stands up for women and girls in sport.

ErrolTheDragon Tue 19-Feb-19 02:15:32

If there are signs that the BBC is punishing Navratilova for defending women's sports, I'd hope the newspapers, especially The Times, would not let it be a 'quiet sidelining'.

girraffeduck Tue 19-Feb-19 03:00:45

Team Martina!

QwertyLou Tue 19-Feb-19 03:51:27

I understand that transgender women have to go through an arduous process of reducing their testosterone levels. Which must be difficult, and require commitment.

But how can suppressed testosterone levels also reverse the muscular, skeletal, red blood and lung capacity advantages of a woman who went through puberty as an assigned-male over other women?

Martina Navratilova said she was happy to call anyone a woman who identifies as one.

Those now attacking her are the “phobic” ones.. not her.

KC225 Tue 19-Feb-19 04:05:09

I hate the fact that this topic cannot even be discussed without the clamours to yell transphobic first. Martina is hugely respected athlete and a has a valid point to make. This issue really is the emperor's new clothes.

NotBadConsidering Tue 19-Feb-19 04:10:22

But how can suppressed testosterone levels also reverse the muscular, skeletal, red blood and lung capacity advantages of a woman who went through puberty as an assigned-male over other women?

You don’t need “assigned” in there; no one is assigned a sex at birth. But to answer your question, it can’t, which is why the focus on testosterone levels is wrong IMO.

MissLanesAmericanCousin Tue 19-Feb-19 04:29:08

The more I read and hear about the trans issue, the more I think it's all about men

Mummyoflittledragon Tue 19-Feb-19 04:32:42

YADNBU
I urge everyone on this thread to complain about the media biais shown by the bbc and obvious silencing of fair play for women on the bbc website. This is very poor journalism and needs to be called out (in this way) to fight against it. I have already submitted an online complaint. www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/

Notbad
Yes, I was going to say the same thing.

HotpotLawyer Tue 19-Feb-19 04:47:41

Listen to the interview here:
fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Steve-Nolan-McK.m4a

Please do listen and complain.

It was on BBC5Live on 17th Feb. ( you need these details to complain)

Why did the BBC allow one guest to veto another guest already invited?

Why did the interviewer take such a partisan line? (Taking on board that Martina was transphobic, without any question or debate, and introducing the idea to the guests that she should be sacked)

Inviting a guest and then ‘no platforming’ them at the insistence of another guest is not the respect for free speech that we expect from a supposedly intellectually respectable institution like the BBC.

Complain to the BBC about the Stephen Nolan interview, state your support for Martina!

QwertyLou Tue 19-Feb-19 04:52:46

Notbad personally I find the “assigned at birth” nomenclature quite awkward.. it’s not like the midwife tossed a coin and then put an F or M on the form!

But to me the physiological science is key, and getting into bun fights over words just plays into the hands of those wanting to silence that discussion.

Plus, I don’t want to get banned for using the wrong terminology

Coyoacan Tue 19-Feb-19 05:01:17

Oh, and my reasoning is actually nothing to do with Martina and everything to do with the prick they gave airtime to earlier today on Jeremy Vine regarding the Castor Semenya debate. I can’t even......

Too true. He was just a random man with absolutely no relevant expertise to argue any side of the argument. And his argument is that women could beat men if only we tried harder. not that I've ever tried at all

NotBadConsidering Tue 19-Feb-19 06:26:59

QwertyLou

That’s understandable, but you won’t get banned for saying “born male” or anything like that, non-specifically. You would only be on potentially dodgy ground if you said it about a trans person specifically, and less so on AIBU, more so on feminism chat, because FWR is probably held to a different standard and TRAs monitor it looking for posts to report and screenshot.

It’s not/shouldn’t bannable to say males have different sporting physiology to females, as much as certain people would like to deny science. So stick to your guns!

MinnieMountain Tue 19-Feb-19 06:35:42

Complaint made.

The IAAF are starting a hearing about testosterone levels in female athletes. That will be an interesting one.

Rhubarbisevil Tue 19-Feb-19 06:37:16

Is Points of View still going? (Showing my age blush and lack of BBC watching blush)?

Radio 4 has a programme which discusses other programmes. Presenters grill the producers of other programmes. We need to lobby the BBC to get this interview discussed by another programme.

Igneococcus Tue 19-Feb-19 06:38:37

Times has an article today about Nic Williams being uninvited:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-cut-guest-from-debate-over-trans-row-l68jmmcr2?shareToken=5c68b30eb14e57fd7bfe00643c8ea08c

CallingDannyBoy Tue 19-Feb-19 06:48:43

Great BBC messes that up - the story that keeps on giving for the Times and keeping the issue at the forefront of the news. Not sure that is what RMcK wanted.

CallMeSirShotsFired Tue 19-Feb-19 06:50:49

I don't have the figures to hand, but even the "reduced" testosterone levels for tw are markedly higher than the levels women produce naturally.

Why are they not in the ranges of actual born women?

Not even getting into the fact that this is all an artifice and down to synthetic drugs, which is a mockery of the whole clean sports thing.

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