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To be miffed at school for telling DS Jesus loves him

(146 Posts)
wwdorado Fri 11-Jan-19 20:45:11

DS is 5 and started reception at an infant school that is not (officially??) affiliated with the church.
Obviously I understand that this is a Christian county and they do the Lord's Prayer/grace etc learn about religion (s) but since starting school he has started talking about Jesus and God. All the time. He says he loves god and Jesus and that Jesus loves him.
Someone must be telling him this?
Is this normal?
We are both just WTF - both of us not religious in the slightest.

Someone tell me it's just a phase?

Hazardswan Fri 11-Jan-19 20:47:40

Has he got a religious school friend?

Bit hmm for a non church school to be saying that.

Sparklingbrook Fri 11-Jan-19 20:48:14

Are you sure it's the school telling him this? Not any of his new school friends?

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Jan-19 20:48:36

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

cheminotte Fri 11-Jan-19 20:48:42

I would complain to be honest. Most schools are C of E but they shouldn’t be influencing him like this. My DS had one particular TA like this and when I mentioned it they said they’d talk to her about it as she shouldn’t be influencing him to that extent.
I tended to respond - yes ‘some people believe that...

MongerTruffle Fri 11-Jan-19 20:48:43

Even a church school really shouldn't be saying that.

Marshmallow91 Fri 11-Jan-19 20:49:46

I'd let my 5yo carry on, but if he asks, then explain that some people believe in God and some people don't.
I would be irritated that a school "forced" this issue, but to me it seems a good opportunity to do some craft days for lots of different religions, and showing him that everyone can believe in different things, but still be friends.

wwdorado Fri 11-Jan-19 20:54:56

I suspect it must be a teacher/TA because most of the children he is with he has known from nursery and pre school...

I would have a word with them but don't want to look OTT especially if he will forget about it soon.

He asked Santa for a children's bible confused

Jupiter13 Fri 11-Jan-19 20:56:24

Thank the Lord

WH1SPERS Fri 11-Jan-19 20:59:52

I hope Santa gave him what he wanted.

Because I’m sure Santa believes in freedom of religion and belief.

And Even a five year old doesn’t HAVE to hold the same interests and beliefs as his parents.

I don’t like football but I got my kids one when they asked for it for Christmas.

wowbutter Fri 11-Jan-19 21:01:21

Are you sure it's not a church school? It could be called some innocuous that you may not have realised. St Stephens or something?

TheClitterati Fri 11-Jan-19 21:01:25

I chose non religious primary when we moved last year - every 2nd primary here is religious. This Svhool is completely evangelical - the kids are force fed religion, prayers, religious songs etc every day. The dc are appalled. It's come as a shock for us all.

Pity there isn't somewhere else suitable to move them to.

treaclesoda Fri 11-Jan-19 21:02:54

Sounds like every primary school I know to be honest.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 11-Jan-19 21:03:40

I always thought saying that Jesus loves you was a gentle insult...

ZigZagIntoTheBlue Fri 11-Jan-19 21:06:29

My son's school is like this - I'm happy for him to learn about religion but I wish they'd learn it's 'what some people believe' rather than being presented as fact.
I'm waiting until he's better behaved to kick up a fuss, I need them onside at the moment grin

livs1987 Fri 11-Jan-19 21:07:09

While I can see why you’re annoyed, I think a lot of use can personally vouch for going through the same forced Christianity at primary school (hymns at assembly etc)

LongWalkShortPlank Fri 11-Jan-19 21:09:02

Why shouldn't he love God, or feel like he is loved by Jesus?
I'm not religious myself, but my daughter attends a c of e school, year 1. I don't take offense at what she is being taught. I think that the Christian values are a great thing to teach children just in terms of the way they should be acting. You're focused on such a small part of religion. Your child will grow up and develop their own beliefs. But to do that first they need to understand what's out there. Do you have a problem when they talk to your child about santa? Or the Easter bunny? Or something else that you don't believe in?

lilyboleyn Fri 11-Jan-19 21:09:12

VA / VC schools are pressured by the churches they are linked with to follow certain criteria - they can get into trouble for not doing so. We have a diocesan inspection due and we have to make sure the children can do lots of things (like explain Jesus loves them) otherwise we’ll be marked down and it’s almost as bad as an ofsted fail.

Pissedoffdotcom Fri 11-Jan-19 21:10:08

DD goes to a church school, this is the sort of thing she comes out with after their weekly church visit. Sounds like someone is whittering religion at him quite regularly tbh; you at least expect it from a church school

MitziK Fri 11-Jan-19 21:10:34

Schools are required to hold collective worship of a Christian nature unless they are of a different faith tradition. No exceptions.

Something about the country supposedly being Christian and it's British to do so/wibble wibble/politicians/exams getting easier/vote for them because if you don't your grandchildren will have to pray to Mecca in school/other racial insults/etc.

You can withdraw your child from it, but then they usually end up sitting outside the library with the secretary and don't get awarded the Star of the Week/give performances because they aren't in assembly.

It's crap. Blame the Government. And the CofE/House of Lords.

QwertyLou Fri 11-Jan-19 21:11:11

Just tell him your beliefs. Have a gentle word to the school if you’re uncomfortable.

jessstan2 Fri 11-Jan-19 21:13:08

I think it is sweet and perfectly natural for a five year old.
You obviously didn't mind him believing in Santa Claus!

PoutySprout Fri 11-Jan-19 21:14:13

Most schools are C of E

WTF? No they aren’t!

I think that the Christian values are a great thing to teach children just in terms of the way they should be acting.

Absolutely no need for good values to be wrapped in a sky fairy of any flavour.

Do you have a problem when they talk to your child about santa? Or the Easter bunny? Or something else that you don't believe in?

Abso-fucking-lutely I do.

PoutySprout Fri 11-Jan-19 21:17:00

DD asked, aged about 5, why we celebrate Xmas. I told her all about the winter solstice, saturnalia and how the Christians came along and stole the festival and the stories and pretended they were their own.

Seems to have done the trick. grin

For Easter I’m teaching her this.

youtu.be/uY1jSWy4Eck

Pissedoffdotcom Fri 11-Jan-19 21:17:58

There is a HUGE difference in believing in santa/the easter bunny/the tooth fairy & believing in god ffs.
My DD came home once in floods of tears because she knows i don't believe in god...she had been told that if you don't believe in god you can't go to heaven & will die forever. She was hysterical for ages.

AdamBarlowsQuiff Fri 11-Jan-19 21:19:16

That does seem odd for a non church school. I would just ask the teacher about it, see what they say. When my eldest told me they were praying in school I asked about it and it turned out to be the type of thing mentioned above - a kind of government box ticking weekly prayer but more around being thankful for different stuff and no mention of Jesus.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Jan-19 21:20:15

You know your DS better than any of us OP. Do you think he is now a Christian for life?

catkind Fri 11-Jan-19 21:22:33

That's not right. I'd be inclined to
a) complain and seriously consider removing from religious observances as they are clearly more evangelical than I would be comfortable with
b) get him the Bible
c) get him a book about world religions to go with it, preferably one with a section about atheism/humanism too
d) talk a bit more about religion in your family. I found information really helped my children to form their own views. Particularly helping them to label things and ideas and stories with the name of the religion they belong to. So if DC came home saying Jesus loves them I'd say "Oh do you think? Well that's something Christians believe. Do you know any stories about Jesus?..." Because when schools get too evangelical Christian beliefs start to get mashed together with teaching of general fact. Helping them label it lets them know that this bit is Christianity, it's optional, that bit is geography, it's fact. School should be doing that too, but from what you say I suspect they aren't.

I'm fine with it if my kids were to start believing in a religion if they understand what they're taking on. I'm not okay with it being fed to them as self evident truth and not differentiated from a-is-for-apple and 1+1=2, that's lying to them. Kids trust and believe teachers.

Yabbers Fri 11-Jan-19 21:24:16

It really bugs me that the Church of Scotland has unfettered aces in our schools here but any other organisation couldn’t go in and preach. They do it under the guise of “moral education” and pretend it is non religious which is clearly rubbish. They run a lunchtime club, handing out sweets and chocolate 🙄

In her first couple of years at school she talked a lot about God and Jesus, we just asked her what they were about. Now she just says “Mr C was in to tell us fairy stories today” We haven’t influenced her, just let her come to her own conclusions.

elephantinstripeysocks Fri 11-Jan-19 21:27:44

i cant see the problem with this, sorry blush. Jesus or Allah can love me all they like - doesn't mean I believe in them. Maybe explain to your DC that some people believe in Jesus, you dont, but if they like to believe that Jesus loves everyone then great. If it makes him feel uncomfortable though then thats a different matter and he is then to ask them to stop.

Craft1905 Fri 11-Jan-19 21:28:07

*@WH!SPERS I hope Santa gave him what he wanted. Because I’m sure Santa believes in freedom of religion and belief. And Even a five year old doesn’t HAVE to hold the same interests and beliefs as his parents.*

I have a sneaky feeling that if a Christian had posted that their 5 year old was coming home from school saying "Allah loves him " and asking for a Koran for Xmas, your response might have been slightly different.

cherry2727 Fri 11-Jan-19 21:28:23

That's great to hear! Glad that he is exploring religion for himself smile

elephantinstripeysocks Fri 11-Jan-19 21:31:24

@craft1905 5 year old was coming home from school saying "Allah loves him " and asking for a Koran for Xmas

i wish that's what they'd asked santa for. cheaper than a bloody xbox and a shitload of harry potter lego they havnt bothered touching hmm

Pissedoffdotcom Fri 11-Jan-19 21:33:15

I have no problem with kids learning about religion - as long as they don't just learn about Christianity. And it is done age appropriately.

Nanna50 Fri 11-Jan-19 21:35:54

This happened with my son, many years ago age 7 he started coming home from school saying Jesus loves me and all sorts of info about Heaven. Religion was on the curriculum, it was the teachers beliefs.

One day when talking about something that was bothering him, he said Jesus will solve my problem. I told him that when he asked Jesus and Jesus didn’t solve it come to me and I would grin

It was just a phase.

Pommes Fri 11-Jan-19 21:35:57

Oh gosh. We've had this - with bells on. My DS was convinced that lost relatives would be resurrected if he prayed enough!

However yesterday we had a breakthrough;

DS: "Mummy, do you believe in God?"
Me: "No darling, as you know."
DS: "Me neither."
Me: "Oh really, what changed?"
DS: "I pray but he doesn't answer me..."

He then explained further;

"...like I just prayed there would be no pips in my orange but LOOK!" As he pointed in disgust at his pip-filled bowl.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Jan-19 21:36:13

Has anyone been playing Whitney Houston songs at him?

Maelstrop Fri 11-Jan-19 21:37:27

Hang on, the OP has sent her DC to a non-religious school and he's coming home banging on about Jesus loves him?! I'd be RAGING! Honestly, OP, complain big time. OP has made a choice to leave religion out of her DC's education yet he's being force fed this stuff? Bonkers.

tor8181 Fri 11-Jan-19 21:39:08

you can send in a letter saying your atheists and any religion is not to be taught to you child my sisters best friend did this sept just gone

the only problem is the child(hes 5)has to be removed from events if religion is mentioned

he wasnt in school a week and he was coming home saying god is going to punish them by sending them to th devil to be burnt for their non believing and for not worshiping him weekly,now at 5 he was a young 5 and there was no way he would know these words unless they have been told to him,after her asking around a few other kids were coming out with it too,some were only just 4 so it was obviuos they wasnt making it up,they all went in and asked was it being taught in reception, the teacher was confused as the kids were saying it was coming from miss hope, theres was no miss hope in the class and religion wasnt really mentioned,they left it and the kids were still coming out with religious stuff so they went to the head this time and after questioning the kids 1 by one it turned out the 20 y old ta who was taking the kids for a hour of Forrest school was using this opportunity to fill their head with religious stuff via a puppet called miss hope

parents went nuts and police was called in and everything

glamorousgrandmother Fri 11-Jan-19 21:41:41

It could be another child. I have experienced this as a teacher - a child telling another child whose dad had terminal cancer that Jesus would make him better. My DGS had a school friend try and persuade him to go to their evangelical church.

Blackboot Fri 11-Jan-19 21:41:56

I'm not looking forward to this with DD. DH is very anti-religion. Should be fun.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Jan-19 21:42:13

What did the police do tor8181?shock

RussellSprout Fri 11-Jan-19 21:45:05

Reminds me of a birthday card I once saw that said 'Jesus loves you ' on the cover and inside it said 'everyone else just thinks you're a wanker!'

elephantinstripeysocks Fri 11-Jan-19 21:46:15

a child telling another child whose dad had terminal cancer that Jesus would make him better.

that is heartbreaking for both children.

Thisisit777 Fri 11-Jan-19 21:46:52

Try not to be.

tor8181 Fri 11-Jan-19 21:50:43

DioneTheDiabolist

took her away and they heard nothing since

we were all talking about it for ages thinking what crime did she commit as the kids wasn't physically hurt and what can they do her for

wwdorado Fri 11-Jan-19 21:57:26

🤔 hmm thanks for all your replies - think it's actually quite common then... I think we definitely need to facilitate some discussion with him about religion(s).

And he did get his children's bible for Christmas. I will also look at getting a suitable book for another religions as well. Kiddy Koran perhaps (his grandparents are Muslim)

DoneLikeAKipper Fri 11-Jan-19 22:00:32

I think that the Christian values are a great thing to teach children just in terms of the way they should be acting.

I think it’s very sad that children (or anyone) needs a horrible old book to be taught how to ‘act’. Especially considering the apparent consequences if you chose not to follow ‘Christian values’. People generally know the difference between ‘right and wrong’, if religion ceased to be tomorrow, our values or sense of morality wouldn’t change. We’d just stop pretending it came from a higher power.

I’d be furious if anyone in an education setting pushed a religious agenda on my child. When will we move forward into the century we apparently live in, and separate church and schools?

BartonHollow Fri 11-Jan-19 22:16:13

This makes me think of a couple I knew in my twenties and have maintained an awareness of due to curiosity value.

They were both religious when I knew them but to a fairly normal level

Combined they became freakishly religious extreme - I'd specify what I meant by that but it would identify them to anyone who knows them

Part of me has half expected them to feature in a MN thread one day

It's the exact sort of thing one of their DC would say to a friend and I'm in no doubt they are encouraged to evangelise in school.
That could be what this is.

I'm not surprised you're annoyed OP but if you treat it with as little drama and no big deal as possible it'll pass

BarbarianMum Fri 11-Jan-19 22:18:52

People generally know the difference between right and wrong

Which planet are you from? Clearly not the Earth where we could feed everyone but nah, cant be bothered. Where violence and abuse of those smaller and weaker than you is commonplace, as is theft and deception and where wars are constant. Where we fuck up the seas for the convenience of wrapping everything in plastic and the climate cause we want more stuff than we can ever use NOW hmm

Echobelly Fri 11-Jan-19 22:19:20

I think it's just a phase when kids get all into the idea of God/Jesus. My kids are at a Jewish school and my son's come home saying that he wants to be Christian after they've learned about it at school! grin

Zintox Fri 11-Jan-19 22:22:19

DoneLikeAKipper just to clarify, there aren’t any consequences for not following Christian values. Being a Christian is all about having a relationship with God. That’s the only criteria for going to heaven. Of course it’s desirable to behave well but that’s not what going to heaven is based on per se.
However repeated sin does get in the way of our relationship with God.

DoneLikeAKipper Fri 11-Jan-19 22:31:56

DoneLikeAKipper just to clarify, there aren’t any consequences for not following Christian values

I severely disagree. The lore itself says that there are terrible consequences for not abiding by that certain god’s will, and real history has shown awful results of ‘follow Christianity or else’.

BarbarianMum

I said people know the difference, I didn’t suggest many abided by it. Religion didn’t invent morality, it merely uses human values for its own means and agenda.

Valanice1989 Fri 11-Jan-19 22:56:35

I think that the Christian values are a great thing to teach children just in terms of the way they should be acting.

I disagree - I don't believe women should be submissive to men, gays should be tortured in hell, etc. I know the school won't be teaching kids that side of things at such a young age, but by telling them that the Bible is the work of God they're pointing them in that direction.

gokartdillydilly Fri 11-Jan-19 23:15:17

When a local Baptist Church rep went into my daughter's church affiliated school she asked if anyone didn't believe in God. My daughter, aged about 8 at the time, put her hand up with perhaps one or two others, to be told "You'll be going to hell then". How I wished she'd told me at the time and not left it til she left. I'd think I'd have been slightly less cross if she'd been told that Jesus loved her.

WH1SPERS Fri 11-Jan-19 23:18:07

I have a sneaky feeling that if a Christian had posted that their 5 year old was coming home from school saying "Allah loves him " and asking for a Koran for Xmas, your response might have been slightly different

Yes my response would be completely different, because The OPs child isn’t Muslim and the Qur’an doesn’t teach that Allah loves non Muslims.

So Id wonder who is the school’s Islamic teacher is.

The Qur’an teaches that Allah loves those who do good deeds (2:195), those who are pure (2:222), those who are righteous (9:7), and those who fight in his cause (61:4).

The Qur’an is equally clear that Allah has no love for transgressors (2:190), ungrateful sinners (2:276), the unjust (3:57), or the proud (4:36), and that Allah does not love non-Muslims.

Qur’an 3:31-32—Say [O Muhammad]: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.

Qur’an 30:43-45—Then turn thy face straight to the right religion before there come from Allah the day which cannot be averted; on that day they shall become separated. Whoever disbelieves, he shall be responsible for his disbelief, and whoever does good, they prepare (good) for their own souls, that He may reward those who believe and do good out of His grace; surely He does not love the unbelievers.

TwitToWoo Fri 11-Jan-19 23:28:13

I would seriously suggest, WH1SPERS that you avoid going down the “Christianity is better than Islam” route because you’ll just end up embarrassing yourself.

Your Bible is no more moral than the Koran & Allah is no more murderous than Yahweh.

BarbarianMum Fri 11-Jan-19 23:32:18

Well that's kind of the point of teligion Kipper. To make you do what is right.

onlylonely Fri 11-Jan-19 23:36:38

Well apart from the fact that Christians aren’t blowing each other up, for being “the wrong sort of Christians”.

Wearywithteens Fri 11-Jan-19 23:47:21

Valanice1989
That makes me very sad that you think that those are genuinely Christian beliefs. This is why we need religious literacy in schools so that ignorance about other people’s beliefs are not stated as fact and with bitterness.

OP - my view is that If this was not a church school it might have come from a kindly staff member who thought the boy felt unloved or dispirited in some way.

If this was a church school then it is very much part of the vernacular to say that each child is created unique, special and loved by God.

brexitsmexit Fri 11-Jan-19 23:48:43

These threads drive me absolutely bunkers - I don't know why I read them but:
Presumably you were brought up in the uk
The UK is a Christian Country with the Queen as head of state and head of the Church of England
You went to school in the UK, attended assembly took part in Religious Education but have grown up and decided that the Church isn't for you and you don't believe.
Why are you worried that your child going through exactly the same religious education will be indoctrinated?

onlylonely Fri 11-Jan-19 23:49:18

How i wish more children were taught about God and Jesus Christ.

Now we have out of control kids with zero respect for their teachers and fellow pupils. Atrocious behaviour, in and out of the school, and it’s getting worse.....Do away with Christianity and the decline will continue...........and no, learning about God isn’t blackmail to make our kids behave, but something has gone seriously wrong, and i blame a lot of it on the lack of any Christian values and teaching. I’m now leaving this thread before it turns into the usual good old Christian bashing as is the norm.

elephantinstripeysocks Fri 11-Jan-19 23:52:15

@onlylonely Well apart from the fact that Christians aren’t blowing each other up, for being “the wrong sort of Christians”.

im christian and i lived in ireland until i was 9 and we were forced over to england...by other christians who thought we were "the wrong sort of christians"....who were blowing things up. this was less than 40 years ago.

Wearywithteens Fri 11-Jan-19 23:58:45

elephantinstripeysocks

They were not Christians in the sense of faithful followers of Christ. Neither are other terrorists who claim to be followers of a particular faith. They are just criminal thugs who happen to identify with the cultural aspects of that faith.

JassyRadlett Fri 11-Jan-19 23:59:52

Well apart from the fact that Christians aren’t blowing each other up, for being “the wrong sort of Christians”.

In this country. At the moment.

Oswin Sat 12-Jan-19 00:00:43

Only lonely well that's bullshit isn't it. In recent memory Christians have killed each other for being the wrong sort. Why should it be your god taught. Keep your religious brainwashing away from children.

Valanice1989 Sat 12-Jan-19 00:01:04

That makes me very sad that you think that those are genuinely Christian beliefs. This is why we need religious literacy in schools so that ignorance about other people’s beliefs are not stated as fact and with bitterness.

I'm perfectly religiously literate, thank you!

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

1 Corinthians 34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

Very Christlike of you to call me ignorant and bitter, though!

JassyRadlett Sat 12-Jan-19 00:02:44

Neither are other terrorists who claim to be followers of a particular faith. They are just criminal thugs who happen to identify with the cultural aspects of that faith.

The PP we were responding to was suggesting exactly that they were following the teachings of their faith.

It’s quite a convenient argument that anything nasty done in the name of religion, ever, isn’t actually inspired by the religion, those people aren’t really of that faith.

Oswin Sat 12-Jan-19 00:03:28

Onlylonely why do you think it is bashed? Could it be the infuriating entitlement of people like you? Who think our children should be forced to listen to religious indoctrination. But only your particular brand of religion.

elephantinstripeysocks Sat 12-Jan-19 00:03:35

@Wearywithteens They were not Christians in the sense of faithful followers of Christ. Neither are other terrorists who claim to be followers of a particular faith. They are just criminal thugs who happen to identify with the cultural aspects of that faith.

And im sure muslims would agree that the ones blowing people up in their name "arent Muslim in the sense of faithful followers of Allah". But we overlook that and tar them all, yet excuse ourselves.

For the record im still christian and couldnt care less what religion other people are. I have my beliefs, they have theirs and we all plod on and make the best of our own situations.

Craft1905 Sat 12-Jan-19 00:04:33

DS: "Mummy, do you believe in God?"
Me: "No darling, as you know."
DS: "Me neither."
Me: "Oh really, what changed?"
DS: "I pray but he doesn't answer me..."

When I was a kid I prayed for a bike but I didn't get one. So I stole someone else's and prayed for forgiveness! grin

Valanice1989 Sat 12-Jan-19 00:06:24

Do away with Christianity and the decline will continue...........and no, learning about God isn’t blackmail to make our kids behave, but something has gone seriously wrong, and i blame a lot of it on the lack of any Christian values and teaching.

Which Christian values do you want to be taught?

JassyRadlett Sat 12-Jan-19 00:10:05

I’m now leaving this thread before it turns into the usual good old Christian bashing as is the norm.

As usual, on these threads, we need to point out the difference between criticising Christianity and criticising Christians.

And then go on to point out that the reason Christianity may get more criticism is because of its followers constant efforts to impose it on the wider population rather than keeping it a personal thing, particularly through state-funded services and preferential treatment in the legislative branch and elsewhere.

BunsOfAnarchy Sat 12-Jan-19 00:10:54

Give over. I knew the lords prayer at 4 and was told jesus loved me too every morning of school. You dont see me waving bibles in my town centre.
Surely he thinka Santa loves him too... same difference to me!

Wearywithteens Sat 12-Jan-19 00:11:16

Valanice1989

Quoting a few commonly trotted out single bible verses (in bold no less!) does not make the view about Christians being bigoted, misogynist and homophobic any less ignorant. Many so called Christians are those things I agree, but a true follower of Christ walks (or in my case tries) to walk a path of love and acceptance as Christ Himself instructs us.

EugenesAxe Sat 12-Jan-19 00:16:41

Craft1905 I'm a Christian and no I wouldn't have a problem with my child coming home praising Allah or asking for the Koran. I own the Koran (only managed to read a bit of it to be honest... but then I haven't got through the Bible yet either). I hate it when people slap intolerance, bigotry and every other kind of stereotype on Christians. I still say to my son that "I believe in God but not everyone does; Daddy doesn't and it's fine if you don't want to believe." And to use terror of a godless death to coerce children into believing is sick.

I also take most of the OT with a big pinch of salt; a lot of the 'rules' were laid down by people doing what they thought was the right thing. Jesus is all about love and forgiveness. I follow Christ... so generally use the NT as my compass. People who claim to be Christian like some of those you hear about in the US, who then misquote the Bible to justify child abuse, are deluded.

myohmywhatawonderfulday Sat 12-Jan-19 00:16:41

These threads are pointless. No one wants to listen to each other. Just state why they are right. Also you can’t go into the complexities of some of the passages that pp have quoted in a few sentences. Many people feel that this life isn’t without reason and is too complex and well ordered to have been random. An integral part of the AA is submitting to a higher power, admitting that we don’t know and can’t do it all on our own. For Christians that higher power isn’t unknowable but has a name and actions that can be followed - that is Jesus.

JassyRadlett Sat 12-Jan-19 00:17:29

Many so called Christians are those things I agree, but a true follower of Christ walks (or in my case tries) to walk a path of love and acceptance as Christ Himself instructs us.

But they also think they are true followers of Christ, as have their predecessors for centuries. How are you sure that your interpretation is right, and theirs wrong?

Incidentally, were you just indirectly saying St Paul wasn’t a true Christian?

JassyRadlett Sat 12-Jan-19 00:20:44

For Christians that higher power isn’t unknowable but has a name and actions that can be followed - that is Jesus.

I’m honestly really pleased for them. It enriches many, many lives.

I would just really love if they acknowledged that it isn’t for everyone and state-funded services like education shouldn’t be used to proselytise about a particular faith, particularly to the impressionable.

And yes, presenting and teaching any religion as ‘fact’ (‘Jesus loves you’) rather than as something that some people believe is true is proselytising.

PersonaNonGarter Sat 12-Jan-19 00:22:50

DS wanted to Hindi and convert from the Church of Scotland aged 7.

Please don’t be a dick, OP. Schools teach religion and have nativity plays and talk about Buddhism and all sorts. Just leave him alone and have faith that he will grow up to have critical independent thought just like the other people around him.

Valanice1989 Sat 12-Jan-19 00:26:29

Quoting a few commonly trotted out single bible verses (in bold no less!) does not make the view about Christians being bigoted, misogynist and homophobic any less ignorant. Many so called Christians are those things I agree, but a true follower of Christ walks (or in my case tries) to walk a path of love and acceptance as Christ Himself instructs us.

It's standard for people to use bold for quotes on MN in order to indicate that they're not your own words.

Why does the fact that they're "single Bible quotes" make it ignorant to mention them? They're fairly consistent with the rest of the Bible, which generally talks about women as inferior to men.

Wearywithteens Sat 12-Jan-19 00:29:49

JassyRadlett - St Paul was an early Christian but I’m not sure his attitudes toward women were holy or enlightened. Unlike gospel accounts of Jesus who talked to women freely when it was culturally taboo and had women followers who were encouraged to stop the domestics and sit and listen to the lessons with the men!

MiniMum97 Sat 12-Jan-19 00:30:37

Unless schools have really changed I don't think they do Lord's Prayer or say grace! I think they give a nod to Christianity in assembly perhaps by singing a hymn because they have to. Most schools keep it super low key.

Craft1905 Sat 12-Jan-19 00:30:56

I also take most of the OT with a big pinch of salt; a lot of the 'rules' were laid down by people doing what they thought was the right thing. Jesus is all about love and forgiveness. I follow Christ... so generally use the NT as my compass.

Jesus says in the NT that he doesn't come to replace the OT, because it's the word of God.

Internet says:

Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18).

When dealing with the people of his day, whether it was with the disciples or religious rulers, Jesus constantly referred to the Old Testament: ‘Have you not read that which was spoken to you by God?’ (Matthew 22:31); ‘Yea; and have you never read, “Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babes thou has prepared praise for thyself”?’ (Matthew 21:16, citing Psalm 8:2); and ‘Have you not read what David did?’ (Matthew 12:3). Examples could be multiplied to demonstrate that Jesus was conversant with the Old Testament and its content. He quoted from it often and he trusted it totally.

Throughout the Gospels, we find Jesus confirming many of the accounts in the Old Testament, such as the destruction of Sodom and the death of Lot’s wife (Luke 17:29, 32) the murder of Abel by his brother Cain (Luke 11:51), the calling of Moses (Mark 12:26), and the manna given in the wilderness (John 6:31–51).

The list of examples goes on, and the evidence is clear: Jesus saw the Old Testament as being God’s Word, and his attitude toward it was nothing less than total trust. Many people want to accept Jesus, yet they reject a large portion of the Old Testament. Either Jesus knew what he was talking about, or he didn’t. If a person believes in Jesus Christ, he should be consistent and believe that the Old Testament and its accounts are correct.

Ribbonsonabox Sat 12-Jan-19 00:34:07

I think you should just get him a childrens bible if he wants one.. and if he says jesus lives him just say 'that's nice dear'.
I was raised in a devout catholic family and yet now I'm agnostic. Just because he likes the idea of jesus right now because hes heard about it from someone does not mean hes going to go through life brainwashed by that. I mean who knows maybe he will carry those beliefs into adulthood and ene up Christian... that would be up to him... but it's unlikely isn't it.... it's more likely he will just be interested in jesus for a little bit as a child then hit his teens and think it's all bollocks.
Just leave him to it.
One of the things that hurt me most as a child was not actually having religion shoved down my throat but that my dad was a staunch atheist... whod married into this family of intense Catholics... and he used to lecture me about how it was all nonsense and belittle the rest of the families beliefs to me. At the time I expressed agreement with him but deep down I was hurt because I didnt feel free to develop my own ideas about the faith. He was heaviky criticising the beliefs of people I love respected and looked up to and that was very confusing... not enlightening.
All that's needed is everyone staying their own beliefs and reasons for them.... it's not beneficial to act like someone elses believe are wrong or nonsense because that is just as controlling as forcing religion on someone.
So I would just tell your son that you do not believe in jesus yourself but if he wants to then that is up to him. And I'd just let it play out.

Wearywithteens Sat 12-Jan-19 00:37:40

Valanice1989

Single verses often leave out a wider context. I’m afraid I’m no biblical scholar but I refuse to let those quotes define the Christians I know who work quietly, lovingly and prayerfully at food banks, prisons, hospices, tirelessly visiting the old, ill and lonely and just generally give of themselves to those who have the least....

Ella1980 Sat 12-Jan-19 00:44:17

I was a teacher for 13 years in a CE primary although I myself am not at all religious. I strongly believe that all people are equal and that sometimes religion actually gets in the way of this equality. My personal view is that if you send your child to a CE school you must expect that they will required to sing Christian hymns in assemblies and say prayers etc. As someone said before, a CE school is inspected by not just Ofsted but will also have an additional church inspection checking certain basic religious elements are in place. Regarding RE, every parent reserves the right to request iet child's withdrawal from the lesson should they so wish. There is an RE curriculum and it should never be the case that only one religion is studied. At teacher training (although this was some years ago for me now!) it was emphasised that we should always remain neutral in our own views. I worked with an excellent colleague who was a devout Christian but she never once put her religious beliefs onto the children. Yes, they knew she was a Christian and she would answer their questions if they asked about what Christians believe, but in exactly the same way as she would for any other religion. Hope this helps?

JassyRadlett Sat 12-Jan-19 00:44:38

St Paul was an early Christian but I’m not sure his attitudes toward women were holy or enlightened. Unlike gospel accounts of Jesus who talked to women freely when it was culturally taboo and had women followers who were encouraged to stop the domestics and sit and listen to the lessons with the men!

I know who St Paul was, cheers. Just because we don’t believe it’s true doesn’t mean than some of us don’t know quite a lot about it.

I was just interested in your assertion that you couldn’t have misogynistic attitudes and be a true Christian, which rules Paul out pretty clearly.

However, most Christians I’ve known (and I used to be one, though clearly not a ‘true’ one) honestly believe that they are the ones doing it right, and those following slightly different paths are the ones who aren’t ‘true’ Christians. That includes the homophobes, the misogynists and the hellfire crowd. So I tend to take with a pinch of salt those claiming ‘true Christianity’, especially when explaining away the more culturally inconvenient aspects of historic Christian teaching.

I think your way is very nice and non-harmful, and I’m sure as part of that you’re careful to be respectful of those who don’t share your beliefs, and the children of those people. In exchange I’m sure most non-Christians will reciprocate (with the usual proviso that arseholes exist across all belief systems and none).

SouthwarkSkaters Sat 12-Jan-19 00:45:04

Haven’t rtft yet but when my DD was about that age, she came home one day saying our god was called Allah grin - lasted a few weeks and, I assume, they just changed to a different religion in RE. At that age, mine just took what she heard very literally.

JassyRadlett Sat 12-Jan-19 00:48:35

^My personal view is that if you send your child to a CE school you must expect that they will required to sing Christian hymns in assemblies and say prayers etc.%

Although hopefully schools and teachers do remember that not all parents have a choice about what sort of school to send their kids to. smile

Your colleague sounds lovely. I wish more were like her.

Ella1980 Sat 12-Jan-19 00:53:03

Absolutely. My own son attends a CE school and we are not Christians. But ultimately CE schools are inspected by the church and therefore have to meet certain criteria as a requirement. For example, I remember an inspector asking the older children if they knew what was meant by the Holy Trinity.
Yes, she was lovely. Heart of gold ☺

pineapplebryanbrown Sat 12-Jan-19 00:58:10

You don't have to send your children to a C of E VA school but if you do there will be Christian prayers. I thought we were a tolerant country or trying to be? My DC very much enjoyed their C of E primary school. The Christian teaching they received had the emphasis on love, kindliness and tolerance. How can anyone object to that?

myohmywhatawonderfulday Sat 12-Jan-19 01:00:46

I find what Ribbonsonabox said very compelling. My experience in schools is that the young teens I have worked with have no language or framework with which to explore concepts like God and spiritualality as the general sense they have imbided from our culture is that it is wrong, people who believe are stupid or they have just never thought of it etc. However when they have ‘permission’ from someone who can open up the conversation in a non judgmental way they have lots of questions. I found it very sad and enlightening at the same time.

ReaganSomerset Sat 12-Jan-19 01:02:01

As PP have said, it's a legal requirement for all schools not affiliated with another religion to partake in a 'daily act of wholly or mainly Christian worship'.

The school can apply to have the Christian part of it disapplied if it doesn't make sense given the school's context (say 80% Muslim but school is non - denominational) but it's a huge PITA to do and has to be renewed every few years. And they then still have to do act of worship daily.

Casschops Sat 12-Jan-19 01:38:43

I know this isn't the case here but I find it annoying when people send their child to church school then get annoyed when they come home talking about Jesus. If it is a non religious school ie a County Primary I can see your point totally.

CountFosco Sat 12-Jan-19 02:06:25

My kids go to a non Church school. The eldest two came home in reception telling me I would go to hell because I didn't believe in Jesus. Interestingly the youngest had a muslim teacher in reception and did not come home saying this. He did learn a lot about Islam but his teacher clearly maintained appropriate boundaries because it was always couched as 'Ms X is a muslim and they believe this' or 'it's Ramadam and so Ms X is doing this because she's a muslim'. This year he has a white teacher and the 'Jesus loves me' has started hmm.

Smallhorse Sat 12-Jan-19 02:09:52

Well if Jesus exists , he’s a loving guy.
Let it go

Whereisthegin1978 Sat 12-Jan-19 08:07:31

But that is what the church believes. That Jesus loves you. If you don’t like its teachings take your child out of that church school.

Aridane Sat 12-Jan-19 08:44:00

I have no problem with kids learning about religion - as long as they don't just learn about Christianity

Why?

PoutySprout Sat 12-Jan-19 08:46:35

Did you miss the “just” in that sentence?

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