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To think you can't be a "nice guy" if you use prostitutes for sex?

(448 Posts)
NotMyOriginalName1 Thu 06-Dec-18 14:22:33

Or can you?

In short, somebody I've known for a number of years openly admits to visiting sex workers and has deluded himself into believing he's one of the good guys and isn't exploitative. He spouts bullshit about having respect for the women he sees and thinks they adore his charming company.

I've lost what respect I have for him.

Unbeknownst to him I have personal experience of these situations, I was a sex worker in my late teens and what lead me there was an abusive relationship. I never felt respected by one single 'customer' in fact it was the 'good guys' who made my skin crawl the most.

Aibu to say he's an exploitative c-u-next-tuesday or am I jaded as a result my own trauma?

mybumpismostlypudding Thu 06-Dec-18 14:23:33

Personally, I don't think you can be a nice guy and use prostitutes

KnobOfStork Thu 06-Dec-18 14:25:03

All the young women I know who were trafficked and pimped as teenagers would agree with you.

doublethink Thu 06-Dec-18 14:25:07

shudder no, utterly grim.

CryptoFascist Thu 06-Dec-18 14:25:40

I remember reading a post from a sex worker who said that every single man they see thinks they're different from the rest as they're a "nice guy". They also all are convinced they're great in bed and give the sex worker loads of pleasure hmm.
I'd ditch the "friend" if I were you, he sounds unpleasant and obviously triggering for you, why is he even telling you about this?!

LanceStatersGold Thu 06-Dec-18 14:25:51

He’s telling himself a story to justify his behaviour. I can’t even imagine why he’s also sharing it with others.

I’m so sorry that you’ve been on the other side of this. YANBU at all.

Gileswithachainsaw Thu 06-Dec-18 14:26:06

I'm with you ok.

The "good guys" wouldn't have any trouble finding someone to share their bed with consensually.

Someone why has a decent view of women wouldn't sleep with prostitutes. They'd be too concerned abiut what happened to them to get there.

NotMyOriginalName1 Thu 06-Dec-18 14:27:13

I've expressed my disgust and he thinks I'm talking bollocks as "how can I possibly know" what goes through the minds of the women he sees.

oofadoofa Thu 06-Dec-18 14:27:15

Out of genuine interest, what about the good guys, compared to I would presume the more demanding (?) ones, made your skin crawl?

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Thu 06-Dec-18 14:28:01

Of course he's not a good guy. He probably believes he is though, as Crypto notes above - denial is a powerful thing.

Kamma89 Thu 06-Dec-18 14:28:27

Not every sex worker has an abusive or exploitative route into it though so you can't apply your personal experiences to everyone & judge by those standards. Given we're in the UK & legalisation & regulation are not on the horizon though, I'd probably tread a little more carefully around this guy too.

LittleLifeRaft Thu 06-Dec-18 14:30:27

"how can I possibly know" what goes through the minds of the women he sees.
And he's psychic is he?

Hikers Thu 06-Dec-18 14:31:30

YANBU and I couldn’t be friends with him

NotMyOriginalName1 Thu 06-Dec-18 14:31:41

His 'hobby' came up during a discussion about online dating which went off track, surprised then I pressed him for more info and he openly admitted he's been doing it for years.

I would've never had him down as the type

zzzzz Thu 06-Dec-18 14:32:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fkyall Thu 06-Dec-18 14:33:19

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NottonightJosepheen Thu 06-Dec-18 14:33:27

No. It is beyond my ken that anyone can have sexual relations with another person solely because there is an exchange of money and they are essentially buying another's body who would otherwise not enter into sexual relations with them. It is wrong. How could that be okay?

sparklepops123 Thu 06-Dec-18 14:33:52

Ask him if he gets a discount due to being such a nice guy

NotMyOriginalName1 Thu 06-Dec-18 14:36:31

@oofadoofa I found the self labelled good guys to be more pushy in terms of boundaries and in multiple cases resulted in stalking behaviours.

I'm projecting all of this from my own experience so obviously I am biased, but having gotten to know several other women in the industry at the time, ladies who marketed themselves as professional independent escorts, not one of them I got to know enjoyed the acts with clients and came from troubled backgrounds even if they weren't directly forced into sex work

U2HasTheEdge Thu 06-Dec-18 14:36:52

YANBU

Nice men do not pay for sex.

Frosty66611 Thu 06-Dec-18 14:37:07

He probably thinks he’s a “nice guy” because he’s friendly to the escorts and doesn’t physically hurt them etc. He probably thinks he has some sort of genuine rapport with them.
Little does he know that 99% of escorts will just be fantastic actresses who are only interested in his £££ and probably think he’s a revolting slimeball

NotMyOriginalName1 Thu 06-Dec-18 14:37:20

@fkyall nope.

CryptoFascist Thu 06-Dec-18 14:37:23

You had it right in your op, he has deluded himself. Is there any reason you need to stay friends with him, social circle etc? If not I'd ditch. If you have to be civil due to circumstances I'd keep it to the bare minimum.

Avegemitesandwich Thu 06-Dec-18 14:37:32

I'm sure most of the blokes who use prostitutes tell themselves that they are one of the 'nice guys' and that they get on really well with the women blah blah blah.

He isn't a nice guy.

Avegemitesandwich Thu 06-Dec-18 14:38:38

Are you one of those women who campaign for the right of podium girls to be unemployed?

Huh?

Nothisispatrick Thu 06-Dec-18 14:38:39

I agree with you. In fact I wouldn’t be friends with someone who used prostitutes.

Gileswithachainsaw Thu 06-Dec-18 14:39:59

Not every sex worker has an abusive or exploitative route into it though so you can't apply your personal experiences to everyone & judge by those standards

No one wakesnuo one day and thinks to themselves I'll have sex for money.

There's an arsehole bloke there some where.

Whether it's saving up money to leave them. Paying back debt you got into loaning them.money. feeling worthless and unemployable cos of how you were treated by them.etc

cheesydoesit Thu 06-Dec-18 14:41:59

Eurgh, YANBU. He's a piece of shit, any man that pays for sex is.

ButteryParsnips Thu 06-Dec-18 14:43:21

thinks they adore his charming company

So much so that he has to pay them to endure it? Ask him if anyone has ever told him 'that one's on the house as you're such a lovely guy'.

Also
how can I possibly know" what goes through the minds of the women he sees

And how can he know what's really in the minds of women he's paying to flatter him?

This is (yet another) example of a man asserting he knows more about something than a woman who is more well informed on th subject than he is, just because he's a man and therefore right. hmm

NottonightJosepheen Thu 06-Dec-18 14:45:32

How does a 'nice guy' reconcile being nice with believing he has a right to physical intimacy with another human by paying a few pounds. That is not true consent. Would he ever entertain the idea of he, himself, giving up bodily autonomy for money? Why not? Is he more special? Or his mother?
Nope. I have zero tolerance. I cannot justify buying another human's sexual favours.

I cannot abide older (comparatively) richer women buying younger men in sex tourist destinations either. Fuck off. No one is entitled to sex with anyone but a genuinely consenting peer of oneself.

Omgineedanamechange Thu 06-Dec-18 14:46:31

Love the idea that you, a woman, canno possibly know what’s going the through the minds of other women, but he, a man can. I’m fairly sure that’s one of the rules of misogyny.

Rudolphie Thu 06-Dec-18 14:46:49

I know females and males who work in that industry and are very content doing so and not all of their clients are hated by them. Some they have found good friendships outside of the bedroom with guys / girls. I do not think the act of paying for sex (often men are paying for company or affection) necessarily makes them a bad guy. I would not be happy if my other half did it whilst being in a relationship with me but outside that I do not judge it any differently than a guy in a pub buying a girl a few drinks or taking her to dinner and thinking his luck was in. In fact I think the first option is more likely to be the female coming out on top (or male being chatted up - do not want to project sex here). Most people in that profession are more cautious about their sexual health than people playing around on tinder / grinder.

I don’t think it’s a make or break.

NottonightJosepheen Thu 06-Dec-18 14:49:07

I just can't be turned on by the idea that someone rents their orifices to me for money. My human empathy would be a buzz kill.

53rdWay Thu 06-Dec-18 14:49:25

I do not judge it any differently than a guy in a pub buying a girl a few drinks or taking her to dinner and thinking his luck was in.

You wouldn't judge a man who thought "well I've bought her two drinks and a nice dinner so now she has to have sex with me"? Really?

prole Thu 06-Dec-18 14:50:02

I consider myself a not-especially-nice guy and couldn't engage a prostitute. Sex is between consenting adults. You can't buy consent. So this plus a hundred other reasons.

I visited Amsterdam some years ago. I was amazed at the number of my male (mostly married) workmates who strongly encouraged me to go to a prostitute. When I replied I couldn't and wouldn't; their suggested compromise was to "just get a hand job".

OP he's very far from 'nice'.

Nicknamesalltaken Thu 06-Dec-18 14:51:17

God no.

He has a ridiculously high opinion of himself, probably telling himself he isn’t like the other punters, feels he is entitled to sex, pays for someone’s consent and perpetuates the myth that some women voluntarily enter prostitution or actually enjoy it.

If he felt some sense of shame or embarrassment- just an inkling that it isn’t right or normal - for what he’s doing I might have a smidgen of regard for him, at least he’d have some self-awareness but he absolutely doesn’t.

He isn’t a nice guy. In fact he’s far, far from it.

RatRolyPoly Thu 06-Dec-18 14:53:01

YANBU OP.

Rudolphie Thu 06-Dec-18 14:54:42

And that is a massive judgement by a Pp saying that no woman wakes up and decides to go into that line of work without an arsehole man behind her.... yes I completely agree there is a HUGE global issue with trafficking and prostitution but that is not everyone. For some students and then professionals it offers a very quick (time wise) income that believe or not some people enjoy as much as we all enjoy our jobs.

RatRolyPoly Thu 06-Dec-18 14:56:13

And that is a massive judgement by a Pp saying that no woman wakes up and decides to go into that line of work without an arsehole man behind her

I'm sure some women go into it completely of their own accord. I have no problem whatsoever with that and I make no judgement at all.

But the punters are always scum.

stevie69 Thu 06-Dec-18 14:57:23

Nice men do not pay for sex.

So .... is it possible to be a nice woman and pay for sex?

SpamChaudFroid Thu 06-Dec-18 14:57:33

It's such a giant act of misogyny, buying "consent" from a woman, so no, I wouldn't want to be friends with a man who did this.

And his attempt at mansplaining that he's a nice guy, I couldn't listen to that without feeling stabby either.

RatRolyPoly Thu 06-Dec-18 14:58:18

So .... is it possible to be a nice woman and pay for sex?

Nice people don't pay for sex.

vampirethriller Thu 06-Dec-18 14:58:31

I was a prostitute for nearly ten years because I was forced into it with violence. Nice guys are the worst. Your heart sinks when you see them back again. They think you do the job because you love sex, because you like them personally. They push boundaries with time and money and services because "we're more like friends aren't we." Which means the man I had to give the money to was angry with me because they made the next guy late and so on. Nice guys usually had wives and girlfriends, would chat about their children tell me they never got sex at home.
In short the "nice guys" were not, ever, nice.

stevie69 Thu 06-Dec-18 14:59:20

I beg to differ. Anyway, who's defining 'nice'?

RatRolyPoly Thu 06-Dec-18 14:59:32

flowers vampire

RatRolyPoly Thu 06-Dec-18 15:00:56

I beg to differ. Anyway, who's defining 'nice'?

It's my personal opinion, you're welcome to disagree. One person's "nice" is another person's "can't stand 'em", but for me I won't be putting someone who coerces somebody into sex on my nice list any time soon.

crochetmonkey74 Thu 06-Dec-18 15:01:20

no way

Bananasinpyjamas11 Thu 06-Dec-18 15:01:33

He’s not a nice guy. Withdrawing your friendship might have a good impact.

Most bad things done to people are done in the name of being okay and acceptable. They are still bad things.

Sex working is murky as there is a lie sold that sex isn’t bad, it isn’t abusive if you don’t use violence, that it’s totally okay for a woman to choose to do this, it’s her choice.

The reality is complicated and dark. It’s basically not okay.

SpamChaudFroid Thu 06-Dec-18 15:02:35

So .... is it possible to be a nice woman and pay for sex? Maybe stevie69. Except there's scant evidence that women pay for "consent." It's a myth. Besides, OP wasn't talking about her female friend paying prostitutes, she was asking our opinion on her male friend.

Bananasinpyjamas11 Thu 06-Dec-18 15:03:04

Also flowers @vampire

Gileswithachainsaw Thu 06-Dec-18 15:03:38

For some students and then professionals it offers a very quick (time wise) income that believe or not some people enjoy as much as we all enjoy our jobs

And why would that be? Maybe rents in the area are too high to afford? Who sets the rent ? Is someone exploiting students charging a fortune for dingy accommodation?

Who turned them down for other jobs or offered a crappy deal that wouldn't work?

What are the customers in the bars and clubs that made them think if they were gonna get groped and ogled it may as well be for more than minimum wage and a fiver tip.

stevie69 Thu 06-Dec-18 15:04:20

It's my personal opinion, you're welcome to disagree. One person's "nice" is another person's "can't stand 'em", but for me I won't be putting someone who coerces somebody into sex on my nice list any time soon.

I do disagree. But totally agree with the 'One person's nice is another person's can't stand 'em' bit blush

Rudolphie Thu 06-Dec-18 15:05:07

I guess if you have this view of him now then it will always be in the back of your head and you will not be able to get beyond that. You should respect your feelings and go with them.

To the posters who were forced into work they did not agree to that is so awful and I am so sorry. I hope you have found happiness.

However I must still state that not EVERYONE in the sex industry is forced into it and not EVERYONE using their services is a complete scum dickhead.

My views and I am sure 99.9% of you will disagree.

HestiaParthenos Thu 06-Dec-18 15:05:57

I do not judge it any differently than a guy in a pub buying a girl a few drinks or taking her to dinner and thinking his luck was in.

Me, too.

Men who think they are owed sex because they paid for dinner have a rapist's mindset.

So do men who buy prostitutes.

Like you, I don't see a huge difference there. The demographics are probably the same; where else would the guy who buys a girl a few drinks have learnt that women's bodies are for sale?

NottonightJosepheen Thu 06-Dec-18 15:06:57

* some students and then professionals it offers a very quick (time wise) income that believe or not some people enjoy as much as we all enjoy our jobs.*

I don't believe anyone whose sexual and/or emotional and/or physical and/or psychological boundaries haven't already been eroded or compromised would engage in sex for money with random people. It is not something which a self actualised person with self respect and self esteem would do.

I do not say this as a sneer to sex workers. Many of us are damaged or hurt. But, I couldn't collude with something that damaged someone. I couldn't respect a man who thinks he has a right to a woman's body because he paid her money.

Monkeynuts18 Thu 06-Dec-18 15:08:41

Any man who uses the phrase ‘I’m a nice guy’ is invariably an utter arsehole.

RatRolyPoly Thu 06-Dec-18 15:09:03

I agree with the first half of your statement Rudolphie smile

...not so much the second. Although I do think good people do bad things, and that someone who has used prostitutes can be redeemed. But it really does depend on them seeing what they've done as completely reprehensible and never to be repeated. And if they really never see how bad it is, I'm afraid to me that makes them scum.

RatRolyPoly Thu 06-Dec-18 15:09:34

Any man who uses the phrase ‘I’m a nice guy’ is invariably an utter arsehole.

Hahaha, yep!

Bananasinpyjamas11 Thu 06-Dec-18 15:10:04

I do not think the act of paying for sex (often men are paying for company or affection) necessarily makes them a bad guy. I totally disagree. Paying for affection or sex reeks of unhealthy and harmful attitudes. It’s not that far from slavery. People are not ours to do as we want. I want to be in a society that is becoming kinder and more tolerant, more respectful. This is the opposite.

I know people who ended up in the sex industry. They swore at the time it was their choice. Now they admit they were damaged, vulnerable women and deeply regret it. One now cannot have children because of exposure to infections, the other woman was raped, their relationships were dysfunctional for a long time.

HestiaParthenos Thu 06-Dec-18 15:10:15

However I must still state that not EVERYONE in the sex industry is forced into it and not EVERYONE using their services is a complete scum dickhead.

You may be correct that not everyone in prostitution is forced into it by physical violence.

You are, however, incorrect in assuming that not everyone using them is a complete scum dickhead.

What must go through a man's head so that he can think to himself: "Hmmm, there's a one in ten chance I am committing rape by sticking my dick into this woman ... eh, I'll risk it." ?

(This is an EXAMPLE. I do not mean to imply that only ten percent of prostituted women are forced into prostitution by violence or poverty, I am pretty sure it is many more. But even IF it was only ten percent, or even just one percent, any man who buys women's bodies would be scum.)

Rudolphie Thu 06-Dec-18 15:10:27

I read a thread on here recently about mother’s wanting their daughters to marry in to money..... I actually judge that a lot more

HestiaParthenos Thu 06-Dec-18 15:11:54

Any man who uses the phrase ‘I’m a nice guy’ is invariably an utter arsehole.

Hah, too true, too true.

Bananasinpyjamas11 Thu 06-Dec-18 15:12:52

Also agree with @rat it’s a bad harmful act, paying for prostitutes. If the OPs friend redeemed himself then there’s hope for the guy, if he carries on even after the OP tells him it’s harmful, I’d cut the friendship.

SpamChaudFroid Thu 06-Dec-18 15:12:53

I believe it was author and ex prostitute Rachel Moran who described these "nice guys" as "gentle rapists". Like OP and a PP, she felt they were the worst.

Often the women who have done sex work develop PTSD. How "nice" is that for them?

InfiniteCurve Thu 06-Dec-18 15:14:43

Even if there are sex workers who have chosen that entirely freely and enjoy their work,that isn't everyone.
And as a user how do you know,assuming you are not naive enough to believe you are such a nice guy any women would be happy to be with you.
If you are paying for then surely you need to accept that some will not be there entirely freely and that you are complicit in that.And that even if you are "nice" not all clients will be.

LassWiADelicateAir Thu 06-Dec-18 15:14:50

I consider myself a not-especially-nice guy and couldn't engage a prostitute. Sex is between consenting adults. You can't buy consent. So this plus a hundred other reasons

You are probably a lot nicer than you give yourself credit for.

For some students and then professionals it offers a very quick (time wise) income that believe or not some people enjoy as much as we all enjoy our jobs

Even if that were true, it doesn't stop the punters , male or female being scum.

So .... is it possible to be a nice woman and pay for sex?

No; why do you even have to ask. Nice people don't use prostitutes.

53rdWay Thu 06-Dec-18 15:15:11

People can justify an awful lot to themselves. There were plenty of slaveowners convinced that they were nice people who were kind and compassionate and their slaves were treated well.

Hidingtonothing Thu 06-Dec-18 15:15:40

Assuming we're defining 'nice' as kind, respectful of others, empathetic etc then no. There is something inherently wrong with a person who can have sex knowing there's a strong chance the other person doesn't want to, beyond needing the money involved. There's something missing in their perception of humanity if they think their right to another persons' body can be purchased.

LassWiADelicateAir Thu 06-Dec-18 15:17:47

However I must still state that not EVERYONE in the sex industry is forced into it possibly correct

and not EVERYONE using their services is a complete scum dickhead

No. They are. If they weren't they wouldn't be buying a human masturbatory aid.

Rudolphie Thu 06-Dec-18 15:18:05

I am not ever excusing manipulative behaviour or forced handing over of money but I do think it has to be acknowledged that some people (Male and female) do go in eyes open and come out the other side ok. They are the lucky ones I understand that. However I think the same consideration could be shown to a few men / women who pay for sex and who should not be treated as outcasts. If they had known love maybe they would not have gone down that path. If they had an affair I think many may think that’s another leap and emotional.... I am actually not defending someone cheating ever be it paid for or not but I do think judging everyone on one level if they ever paid for sex is wrong.

What if they paid to go to a strip club? Is that still paying for a body?

LassWiADelicateAir Thu 06-Dec-18 15:19:03

There's something missing in their perception of humanity if they think their right to another persons' body can be purchased.

Excellent summary.

Auntiepatricia Thu 06-Dec-18 15:19:17

What Hestia said. I was coming on to say that. No man can ever ever know for sure that the prostitute he is using is not a vulnerable person or a trafficked person, there’s a high likelihood they are, so that in itself makes every single man who pays for sex the scum of the earth.

LassWiADelicateAir Thu 06-Dec-18 15:19:48

What if they paid to go to a strip club? Is that still paying for a body?

Yes and still scum.

MadameJosephine Thu 06-Dec-18 15:21:06

Lots of previous posters have put it much more eloquently than me but just on a basic gut level the thought of it makes my flesh crawl and I could never have anything to do with this so called ‘nice guy’ again

Wittow Thu 06-Dec-18 15:21:21

I'm really surprised by the responses. I think I'm a pretty liberal, open minded person and I have had lots of frank conversations over the years with friends and lovers. Several guys I know have paid for sex. I've not thought any less of them.

Tinty Thu 06-Dec-18 15:21:52

I do not judge it any differently than a guy in a pub buying a girl a few drinks or taking her to dinner and thinking his luck was in.

Really?

The difference is the girl he is taking for dinner has a choice she may or may not want to have sex with, someone she has got to know slightly over dinner him, and that is her choice. It is not the same as saying here is £50 the price of dinner and drink and you have to have sex with me whether you would like to or not complete stranger who I have just picked up.

BertrandRussell Thu 06-Dec-18 15:23:49

No. You can’t.

1hello2hello Thu 06-Dec-18 15:25:36

Not a nice guy. 100% not a nice guy.

masterandmargarita Thu 06-Dec-18 15:27:04

Ask him if he had a daughter would he be happy for her to do that job

abacucat Thu 06-Dec-18 15:28:08

No of course you can't.

Tinty Thu 06-Dec-18 15:28:34

I'm really surprised by the responses. I think I'm a pretty liberal, open minded person and I have had lots of frank conversations over the years with friends and lovers. Several guys I know have paid for sex. I've not thought any less of them.

Would you have a relationship with any of them though?

And No OP he is not a nice guy.

And No a woman who pays for Sex is also not a nice woman.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplands Thu 06-Dec-18 15:29:06

I couldn't respect a man who thinks he has a right to a woman's body because he paid her money

////// this with bells on ////

Similarly a family member recently went to a strip club in a well known party city on a stag and he apparently remarked on how young the girl was.

Yes she was very likely to have been trafficked you disgusting shit.
This guy has daughters. I have zero respect for him now.

BertrandRussell Thu 06-Dec-18 15:29:31

However I must still state that not EVERYONE in the sex industry is forced into it

No. But it does depend a bit on your definition of “forced”

and not EVERYONE using their services is a complete scum dickhead

Yes they are.

HestiaParthenos Thu 06-Dec-18 15:29:36

Why do those allegedly so very "nice" men go to prostitutes in the first place?

Because they cannot get laid with other women? Why do they expect to not be rejected by prostituted women if prostituted women are doing this just for fun and don't need the money?

Because they are cheating on their spouse and prostituted women "don't count" - what a "nice" dehumanizing attitude?

Because they want to do sexual acts that other women wouldn't consent to? Why do they expect prostituted women to "consent" when prostituted women allegedly are doing this voluntarily? Why would their pain threshold and preferences be any different from other women's?

A man who buys prostituted women either thinks all women are for sale, or he sees prostituted women as fundamentally different from other women - something we call the "Madonna-Whore-Complex".

A man who respects women and sees prostituted women as no different from other women would not think he has any better chance of not being rejected by a prostitute than any other woman.

All other things being equal, why would a man prefer to pay for something he can have for free?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Thu 06-Dec-18 15:29:37

Do you feel the same about women/men that marry for money? There are a lot of them about. I don't see a difference personally.

How can a man who visits a prostitute be deemed 'not nice' but a woman/man who provides the service is untainted by your judgement?

I think that sex workers provide a service for damaged people. Always. They're damaged, unable to form or keep relationships without paying for them. I don't judge them for that anymore than I'd judge the sex worker who provides the service.

I also think that most people who spout off about sex workers and their clients know nothing about it. <shrugs>

NotMyOriginalName1 Thu 06-Dec-18 15:29:51

@vampirethriller I can relate entirely to what you've said. Two particular "nice guys" who made a habit of seeing me on a regular basis used to fill me with such dread and anxiety when I knew they were coming. It was commonplace for them to expect extra time off the clock or badger me incessantly when I wasn't working "because we were basically friends now"

It was the norm for me to have bruises and scratches from my abusive partner and whilst one of the "nice clients" knew exactly where they were from, neither one of them gave a shiny shit about my wellbeing to the extent where they didn't expect to indulge in whatever their latest fantasy was.

I hope you are OK now and have found your peace flowers

I portrayed the "I'm doing this simply because I love sex and the money is just a bonus" bollocks and perfected the act accordingly but in reality it was anything but.

I think a high percentage (although yes not all) of women who go into these things are vulnerable in one way or another.

BlytheSpiritsSpirit Thu 06-Dec-18 15:29:53

After having listened to Julie Bindel's speech at LAWS last week, I'm inclined to say anyone who pays to enter a woman's orifices is the exact opposite of nice. The impact that prostitution has on society - legal or otherwise - is horrendous, and the impact on individuals is catastrophic.

LizzieSiddal Thu 06-Dec-18 15:30:32

Op another here saying agreeing with you, he isn’t a nice guy at all.

These men delude themselves that the women wants to have sex with them. And don’t have a single thought for the women’s circumstances and the high possible that they don’t want to be having sex at all.

RatRolyPoly Thu 06-Dec-18 15:31:51

I think I'm a pretty liberal, open minded person and I have had lots of frank conversations over the years with friends and lovers. Several guys I know have paid for sex. I've not thought any less of them.

Really? I'm the super liberal sort as well, like super liberal, and try above anything else to understand the worlds inside other people's heads that make them do the things they do.

I know people who've paid for sex. I know people who've had affairs, people who've suffered addictions, people who have done all sorts of terrible things. I can feel empathy for those people - heck, I've been one of those people - and I can see that people good people do bad things...

But I will still tell someone that what they're doing is bad when I think it's bad! I understand the man paying for sex. But I'm fucked if I can't stand up and tell them I think it's wrong, and if I didn't I'd bloody well think less of myself.

LizzieSiddal Thu 06-Dec-18 15:32:17

flowers for Not and Vampire

LassWiADelicateAir Thu 06-Dec-18 15:33:19

I'm really surprised by the responses. I think I'm a pretty liberal, open minded person and I have had lots of frank conversations over the years with friends and lovers

You seem to be confusing being anti- prostitution with being anti-sex , illiberal and narrow - minded. It's a "confusion" the pro punter and pro pimp brigade like to spread. I'm not suggesting you are either but what you have said is the type of untrue propaganda pimps and punters like.

Being anti- prostitution is being pro- humanity. It's being pro-sex as a joyful, fun activity engaged in freely by consenting adults.

Several guys I know have paid for sex. I've not thought any less of them.

Thus post bears repeating

There's something missing in their perception of humanity if they think their right to another persons' body can be purchased,

Tinty Thu 06-Dec-18 15:33:36

However I must still state that not EVERYONE in the sex industry is forced into it and not EVERYONE using their services is a complete scum dickhead.

My views and I am sure 99.9% of you will disagree.

If your Daughter/Sister was the prostitute and just doing it for the money, do you still think you would say "hey they are nice guys and its just a job". What luck that nice guy wants to pay my daughter lots of money to have sex with her. Not a scummy dickhead at all.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Thu 06-Dec-18 15:34:35

I also don't understand the label of 'nice'. Who gets to decide what that is? Can I decide? I'd say that most people are actually not very nice. They are selfish, self-absorbed and deluded into thinking that they're somewhat elevated above everybody else.

OP, if you're that sure of your opinion of this person, why do you need to even ask?

53rdWay Thu 06-Dec-18 15:34:52

How can a man who visits a prostitute be deemed 'not nice' but a woman/man who provides the service is untainted by your judgement?

Same reason I can deem sweatshop owners 'not nice' without condemning sweatshop workers.

masterandmargarita Thu 06-Dec-18 15:35:42

Lyinwitchin - is the op 'spouting off' about stuff she knows nothing about?!

NotMyOriginalName1 Thu 06-Dec-18 15:35:53

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe because until his revelation I was very much of the impression he was a lovely person, and I'm very aware that due to my own experiences my opinion could be considered biased

RatRolyPoly Thu 06-Dec-18 15:36:01

OP, if you're that sure of your opinion of this person, why do you need to even ask?

It's comforting to know you're not alone.

Bananasinpyjamas11 Thu 06-Dec-18 15:36:55

Well put @ratrolypoly I feel exactly the same. It does make difference, not making paying for sex ‘normal’ or okay. Busting the myth of the happy prositute and poor shy guy who is actually nice.

LassWiADelicateAir Thu 06-Dec-18 15:37:06

Tragic bold fail. This was a quote, not my own words

Several guys I know have paid for sex. I've not thought any less of them

I only know 1 man, from a very long time ago and it completely changed my opinion of him.

MidnightAura Thu 06-Dec-18 15:37:43

Without outing myself, a member of my DH’s family uses prostitutes. He goes regularly to Thailand, Amsterdam and apparently has convinced his Mother he’s there to see friends.

I’m told constantly what a nice guy he is, but I don’t see it. YANBU OP.

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