To think that women should stop starting families before they get the ring?

[MeteorGarden]

Ok so hear me out.

I’ve read a few threads now from women who have got themselves into the same difficult situation and judging by hundreds of comments, they are seriously not alone!

They desperately want to marry DP who ‘always said he would’ But now (a few children/ years later) has declared he has no intention of marrying them.

It follows the same pattern, OP wanted to marry early on and DP was open to it but didn’t actually pop the question. OP didn’t force the issue (god forbid she be labelled ‘pushy’ or ‘crazy’) and instead started a family with DP (OP seemed under the delusion that having his children would make him propose).

Why!??
A) Would anyone ‘start a family’ with a man who isn’t proposing to you? If he’s open to it why isn’t he doing it?
B) Is having children becoming just an alternative to getting the ring/ security you want?
C) Would anyone think having his children will make him propose? If you have the kids without a ring it’s fair for him to assume you’re happy enough with the current situation!
D) are so many women put off flatly asking for what they want? It’s terribly backward to just quietly have his children and keep his home in the hope that one day you’ll be ‘rewarded’ you with a proposal! We’re living in a society where you can carry his children but feel uncomfortable asking WHEN he’s going to propose and pushing the issue?!?!

The stories I’ve read are horribly deflating and I empathise with their explanations of frustration and humiliation but wonder if perhaps it could have all been avoided?

We have so much more freedom and independence than our grandmothers, but we’re expected to pretend we don’t care about marriage or kids for the first year of dating so as ‘not to scare a man away’!! WtF?

I wouldn’t ever plan a family with any man I wasn’t married to. It was spelt out to me that the time to lock down my chosen relationship was BEFORE I had children or made irreversible sacrifices!

This kind of thinking seems to instil fury in a lot of modern women but why? Taking the more ‘modern’ approach really doesn’t seem to be working out very well for alot of women so would a bit more tradition In our approach to getting the ring really be that bad?

Maybe if women banded together and made ‘getting the ring’ more socially acceptable we’d be able to push the point and get answers before wasting years with a guy and learning the hard way! Right now it feels men have more power over the marriage process than they really should!

* This applies only to women who ‘want’ to marry but aren’t getting the ring. Not those who don’t want to marry!

[Sleepyslops]

What ring? A piece of jewellery means nothing.

[CoughLaughFart]

Did someone order a goady pile of shite? Because it’s arrived.

[MeteorGarden]

@Slerpy *to you it means nothing

[Lazypuppy]

I agree but I have a child with my partner but we aren't married yet. I didn't want to wait any longer to have a baby, but it doesn't scare me to be a single parebt if for some reason we broke up.

I have just made sure i am financially stable if we do break up, i am going back to work full time after maternity to ensure i have my own money.

The problems i see on here are women who give up work when they have kids, then break up with partner and are left with no protection for the loss of earnibgs/NI/pension etc you get if you were married.

[Sunflowerr]

[Sleepyslops]

Meteor. A ring means nothing. A proposal is what I assume you mean. That means something.

Sincerely, Mrs Slops

[Wolfiefan]

For the phrase "getting the ring" alone Yabu. Is that all marriage means to you?
Let women make their own choices. HTH.

[Babdoc]

If the woman earns more than the man and keeps her full time job after having the kids, then it’s only a matter of sorting out things like joint mortgage, wills, inheritance, next of kin and power of attorney etc.
In fact she’d possibly be worse off in the event of a marriage and divorce, as she’d be ordered to provide maintenance for the ex husband.
Where marriage is essential is for SAHMs. It’s lunacy to give up work, be totally financially dependent, lose years of pension contributions and career progression, without the legal safeguard of marriage. Such women, as you comment in the OP, are shocked when they realise they’re entitled to nothing in the event of a break up.

[EmmaGrundyForPM]

The 1950s called. They want you back

[Needahairbrush]

Lol, this is going to go well.

[PolkerrisBeach]

Let women make their own choices. HTH.

Despite the terminology, I get what the OP is digging at. There are lots of threads by women in a crap situation because they're living with a man, have three children together, man has consistently promised they'll get married, when push comes to shove they won't do it, woman left feeling very vulnerable not just in her relationship but also financially/legally.

[Redgreencoverplant]

I personally wouldn't have a child with someone without a legal contract detailing finances etc and the easiest and quickest way to do that is marriage. If people want to go the more complex route through a solicitor then at least it is a legal contract still. I do think it is unwise to do it without anything drawn up but people are adults and can do as they like. It should be part of PSHE education and I think that family planning should be based on two forms of contraception as much as possible.

[Lazypuppy]

@babdoc
It’s lunacy to give up work, be totally financially dependent, lose years of pension contributions and career progression, without the legal safeguard of marriage. Such women, as you comment in the OP, are shocked when they realise they’re entitled to nothing in the event of a break up.

Completely agree!!!

[MrsCar]

I agree with you OP, I've seen it many times in real life.

Too often the woman gives up a career, rents with him, or worse, moves into HIS house, often even paying the mortgage too.
In the event of a split, she's left with nothing

And generally, I think if he doesn't want to marry you during the early, 'happy', easier (pre DC) years, he sure as hell won't want to, 10 years plus a couple of kids later....

[mavismcruet]

Do you really call getting engaged or married “getting the ring” in real life? Such an odd turn of phrase.

[Flashingbeacon]

What I don’t understand, and I think would be a better point, is why women stay with men when they aren’t happy. They aren’t getting what they need/want and stay because otherwise they are throwing away XYZ. Surely being married makes that even less likely.
Also if you’re a higher earner, have more assets it’s far better to not be married.

[FissionChips]

I agree with op. So many threads on here from women who moan and get terribly upset about their partners not wanting to marry them and yet they keep having children with these men. These women tend not to be the one she with enough financial sense to keep working etc.
The women mostly use the excuse of being too traditional to ask/ even broach the subject of marriage with men but yet have children out of marriage. It’s crazy.

[OliveBranchManager]

I do completely agree with you but I had a very low self-esteem and accepted the bone I was thrown, although he turned out to be abusive which was why I left and I count myself lucky now that there was no divorce.
.
Also, I think deep down, deep deep down I knew that I wanted to be a mother more than a wife and without have the conscious connection to my inner self at the time, I prioritised being a mother over anything else. I think I thought that my fertility was declining and I could sort the rest out 'later'.

[brokenharbour]

Oh god, it's been done to absolute death already!

[troodiedoo]

because life doesn't always go to plan.

I think HMRC should take some of the blame for the cohabiting = marriage belief with their "married or living with your partner as if you are married to them" option on tax credit forms etc.

[Giantsquid]

Yanbu

[ScabbyBabby]

I would prefer the law to protect the rights of children in all circumstances in the event of a break-up (it's half-way there already but needs developing further) rather than make all women get married prior to having children.

Marriage is becoming an archaic concept if statistics are to be believed.

Rather than adapt our lives to meet archaic divorce laws, why not adapt the law to the needs of modern society?

[DSHathawayGivesMeFannyGallops]

There will always be people who do that or other big life changing things in the hope that their DP will pop the question, but it doesn't happen.

Equally, that's just the way it goes for some people, it wasn't necessarily planned that way and they'll be happy unmarried or get married when it suits them. My parents were engaged when DM got pregnant. They got married WHEN they did because of it.q

[P3onyPenny]

Cough 😂😂😂

Can't work out if this is for financial security if so how about you suggest women just focus on making themselves financially secure without the aid of a ring. Then they can do what they like.

If it's to keep their chosen man forever err you do realise nobody has to stay in a relationship they don't want to these days however much you think you can lock it down.😂

Just to say I've been a MNer for many years and I've never seen a multitude of threads from bereft mothers wanting rings. Where on earth are they?

[Neshoma]

The problems i see on here are women who give up work when they have kids, then break up with partner and are left with no protection for the loss of earnibgs/NI/pension etc you get if you were married.

This. Ive been on MN a long time and this is a regular kind of thread.