For putting the toy in the bin?

[helloworld2012]

I really need some advice. For background info in the past year I've found out my husband was having an affair, left him and moved to a different country with my two kids. My ex is a terrible father (in his own words he didn't want to be a family man anymore) and has let them down on countless occasions since the split, and in the past 3 weeks hasn't phoned the kids once. I understand this may be causing the children some upset, as well as the move and them starting a new school / nursery. We moved in May and it did go really well, they've settled in so well and we have lots of support here but I am, at times, struggling being a single mother (not that he did much to help before...!) and perhaps the honeymoon period has worn off for the kids now.

DD is 4 and DS is 6 and they've both started to take their anger out on me by calling me 'stupid mummy', 'bad mummy' etc and hitting and kicking me if they're angry. It's usually in reaction to me telling them it's bedtime or time to come in for dinner, time to take a bath etc. I do give them several warnings when the time gets close. They know it's coming but more often than not they get angry and then scream at me and insult me. Often DS will laugh when I'm angry which makes me feel like I've no respect from him.

It's worth mentioning that when they're not in this particular mood the children do respect me, show love, have manners and ask permission etc.

I'm someone who doesn't snap very quickly, it takes me quite a while before I get angry but when I do snap I get loud. I do try to stay calm and try distraction, humour, or 'love-bombing' before threatening to take away a toy or telling them they won't get this treat or that treat. I don't know if they think I'm soft...But anyway if that doesn't work I do get angry and if my buttons are really pushed (if they hurt me or they laugh in my face) I do shout and I follow through with threats.

The past few days DD has had several toys confiscated because of unacceptable behaviour (see above). She had a new toy a week ago (worth a fiver) and it's been confiscated and earned back too many times to count now. So I picked her up from nursery, she was in a good mood, but wanted to wear a leotard and tutu to dance class and I said it would be better to wear leggings underneath because it's cold which went down like a lead balloon. I then picked her up to put her in the car and she started kicking me and said nastily 'stupid mummy'. So when we were home I explained to her that her new toy was going in the bin as she had behaved very badly. And I did it. Confiscating it again was not going to work. What else can I do?

I love them with all my heart, and we do have some really lovely moments together. After a fight we have a conversation about what happened, how it made us feel and how we can stop it from happening again and we hug and apologise. I just really need to know that I'm not allowing them to walk all over me when they call me stupid or kick me. I don't know how to make them respect me!

What do you do if your kids call you nasty names or hit and kick you? and if they are hitting and kicking you, how do you stop them?! I lifted DD and got a massive kick in the groin! Help :(

[mydogsayswoof]

Oh op that's tough. At that age I was using time out. I'd give 3 chances (I'd count and hold up a finger), before silently moving to time out. After time out we'd talk about why they were in time out. If there was anything physical like kicking, it was straight to time out. They had to understand that violence was zero tolerance.
Once when my son's behaviour got really out of control (similar issues with his dad and it being taken out on me) I removed all the toys from his room and he had to earn them back.
I also took him to counselling though. And I bought a few books about emotions and feelings to read to them.

[mydogsayswoof]

That sounded harsh. I didn't just take all his toys away because he misbehaved once. It was a long period of difficult behaviour and not a lot was working.

[FevertreeLight]

Can you access some parenting courses? Is there still a local surestart open?

Retrospective punishment (i.e. taking toy after an unconnected event and with no prior warning) is not likely to be a successful strategy. You need clear boundaries with agreed consequences.

You need some help to reset your relationship boundaries with the children. Have you tried reward rather than punishment?

Get an empty jar and reward them with pasta pieces every time they show positive behaviour. Agree in advance a reward for the jar being quarter, half, three quarters and full (draw lines on).

[bridgetreilly]

I think you're doing the right thing. I would focus on one specific behaviour at a time, starting with the name-calling. Explain that they must never say things like that, and that there will always be an immediate consequence if they do. I understand that they are unsettled, but they can't be allowed to continue expressing it in this destructive way.

[Mishappening]

Yup - zero tolerance from me for physical violence and name-calling. They knew that the consequences would be very serious of they behaved in that way - in fact they never did.

They would have been up to their rooms for the rest of the day if they had dared to behave like that! I am a hard woman.

Bin for the toy? - well certainly her behaviour warranted serious consequences, but I think I might have told her it was going away and one day, when she had learned to behave herself, she might have it back.

Managing on your own is so hard, but in some ways easier in that there is no-one there to undermine your house rules.

I do think that they nmeed to know that violence and verbal abuse is off the agenda, and if they do it, they will suffer the consequences.

Other side of that is that if/when they calm down you should let them know that you are pleased with them for doing that and that you understand that it can be a heard thing to do.

It might be best not to lose your temper if at all possible!! - but we are all only human and we have to forgive ourselves the occasional lapse or we would go nuts.

It is lovely that you have happy times with them too. Remember - when it comes to parenting "good enough is good enough."

[daughterofanarchy]

I have a four year old girl and I find her tough to parent. I have removed toys in the past as reasoning with her and the naughty step was not working (she would Go sit on it just for fun!) it does cause tears but I don’t know what else to do. Sending you best wishes and hoping you reach a solution to. Will be looking out for tips too!

[Silentnighttwo]

I think you did the right thing. it sounds really tough.

How did your DD react?

[Bellyscreen]

I’ve done it. I said it in the heat of the moment and had to carry it through. I felt awful, but it did influence her behaviour, she realised I was serious and things improved.

[helloworld2012]

DD was obviously very upset and angry. Only time will tell if it has had an effect or not! I felt horrible doing it but felt absolutely lost.

To those of you who use time out / naughty step. What do you do if the child constantly stands up and walks away? This is what my DD does and unless I were to physically hold her there she won't stay!!! Same for sending them to their rooms. I do this but often DD leaves her room or DS throws toys and clothes everywhere in a bad mood.

You're all absolutely right in that there should be zero tolerance for name calling and violence. I'm going to have a conversation with the pair of them this afternoon but what can be the 'immediate consequences'?

Books about emotions are a good idea.

[FevertreeLight]

You need to try reward not sanction.

Being told that you are disappointed with them should have a significant impact once the balance in the relationship is right. No need for naughty steps or punishments.

Remember that what they are doing is naught/upsetting you- never say that they are naughty. I really don't like it when you do XXX because hit makes me feel XXXX.

You need to discuss what positive behaviour you expect. Write it down and agree it with them. Break the day down into sections (about 8) from getting up to going to bed. Every time they do positive behaviour they get a rewards (star, pasta etc), at the end of each section discuss what you are really pleased with and what didn't go so well. If they have done well award 5 extra stars/past. When they do something negative explain to them why it is wrong and the impact that it is having on you- don't give the bonus rewards.

be really clear what positive behaviour you expect and what negative behaviour you won't accept. Have a clear and consistent approach. Have a structured day so that they know what is happening at each point. Tell them what behaviour you expect, we are going to the swimming pool, good behaviour would be that you XXXX

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

My DS1 was a bit like this, especially after I split with his Dad. Maybe the breakup hit them harder than you thought? Counselling might help, you can get family counselling for all of you.

A book I LOVED is called "get a new kid by Friday". It's funny, no-nonsense and very effective. His main idea is that you don't get into long discussions about behaviour and all that, because you don't need to; kids do know when they're doing the wrong thing (insulting, hitting, etc).

[UnderTheSleepingBaby]

I'm going to go against the grain here to offer some alternative ideas. I've studied child development as part of my career and there is some evidence to suggest that punishments like removal of toys and time out/Naughty step actually increase poor behaviour because they instill a sense of shame in the child and a feeling of shame is often the cause of bad behaviour.

I've been trying to use a different approach that avoids rewards or punishments, the idea is that children learn to do what is right because it's what is right and not because they want the reward/want to avoid the punishment (does that make sense?)

My son is only 3 so I'm not claiming to be any sort of expert and I'm sure people have success with other methods.

For violence I hold him, gently but firmly so that he can't hurt me, tell him it's OK to be angry/sad etc but it's not OK to hit and that when he is ready to be gentle I'll let go. He does cry and shout to me to let go but that pretty quickly turns to him asking for a cuddle. As soon as he is ready we have a cuddle and get on with our day. He rarely hits now but did have a brief phase of it at one point.

He's not really old enough for name calling to be an issue so no experience there but my best idea would be to say "I'm not going to listen to you call me names and I'm not going to speak to you until you can be kind" and then do not say a word until the name calling stops, wait for her to engage with you in a positive way and then respond positively.

For other things I only use consequences that directly relate to the issue, so if he were to throw a toy or hit someone with a toy (on purpose) it would be put out of reach until he has calmed down. If we are going to the park and he wont put his shoes we simply can't go until he does. If we are going somewhere important and he won't get ready it is harder, trying to make it a game before it becomes a battle is the best way but it requires a lot of mental energy sometimes!

Mostly I would pick your battles, if she doesn't want to wear something (unless it is genuinely required) just warn her she'll be cold, make sure she is sure and let her choose, she'll get much better at making the right decision next time if she does get cold or if you are with her you can take the rejected item of clothing and when she changes her mind she can then put it on.

It's not a style that works for every one as it does initially require a lot of thought, our parenting culture is quite punishment focused and it's difficult to get out of that mindset, once you get in the habit of it though it comes more easily and for us it seems to be working pretty well.

Sorry for the essay! Hope you find some methods that work for you whichever way you decide to go

[UnderTheSleepingBaby]

That had paragraphs when I wrote it. Sorry!

[Believeitornot]

I think you need to pick your battles. Are you after obedience no matter what? Or can you compromise?

Eg something like the leggings - I would not have the fight and just let my dcs find out the consequence of the cold. Then you wouldn’t get in to the whole kicking business.

If mine ever kicked or hit me, I would be very firm and say no kicking. And state that it hurt and I didn’t like it. Taking things away etc never really works at that age as they forget!

[NelleB]

Maybe don’t buy her a new toy next time she asks and tell her when she’s being good and nice to Mummy she can have a new toy but she’s got to show that it’s consistent not just a one off to get a new toy. We have a mantra in our house ‘if you’re nice and do nice things you get nice things’ might not be everyone’s cup of tea but it works and we don’t have any issues. I try to go for a positive approach and it works for us. Negativity doesn’t work well for my two stepchildren. They thrive on praise and encouragement.

[Hidillyho]

I like the idea of what sleepingbaby has put. I’m definitely going to try this.

I do think that if you threaten something then you need to follow through with It (something I am bad at).

I agree with others, sometimes you have to pick your battles. My dd likes to wear shorts in whatever weather. Our comprise is that she wears her shorts over her trousers. Would this be an option for you? If not then let her wear what she wants and she’ll realise that being cold is no fun.

Have you got much support where you are? You have all gone through a massive change with the move and splitting up with their dad that it will take a while to settle down. They might be lashing out now as they feel settlled enough to do so now which they might not have when you first moved

[cestlavielife]

Don't put stuff in bin. That is not appropriate response.

Read "how to talk so.kids will listen"
Focus on positive reinforcement for good behaviour.

Let her wear thru if she gets cold she will ask for leggings.
Not worth battle.

[Bezm]

Underthesleeping... I'm totally with you on this one. I think the word your looking for is intrinsic. Childen making the right choices for the sake of it, not for reward or to avoid punishment.
Changing a child's behaviour can be really hard! Catch them doing something nice and use verbal feedback. 'The way you put your shoes on quickly was really nice.' And follow with a hug, high 5 or other physical acknowledgement. If you use rewards, you are using extrinsic knowledge i.e. When I want an ice cream, toy, extra iPad time I just need to do something nice.

[notsohippychick]

I think what I would have done was stop her going to the dance class. She behaved like that because she wasn’t getting her way about what she should wear. The cons sequence has more relavance.

I probably wouldn’t have let it escalate that far if I’m honest. It’s about picking battles and a fight over a leotard wouldn’t be a battle I’d be prepared to pick!

It’s so hard though. Sounds like you are doing a great job under all the pressure you have.

[cestlavielife]

Also they have lost their dad whatever you thought of him and however bad it was.. They are gping thru a bereavement of sorts. Get some family therapy. Work with them .
Family therapist helped me.understand dd loved her e dad whatever.
They lashing out it they need some support too.
Find a safe space with family therapist where they can talk about family and mum and dad thru play.

Did your ex call you stupid? They got this from somewhere

[cestlavielife]

Why did it matter what she wore?

[slithytove]

I have thrown one of DD’s things away before but she was hitting me with it, so a stronger correlation.

I’m not sure she will make the connection between losing her toy and the bad behaviour.

Plus YABU for chucking instead of charity shopping it - perhaps if that was the route you would be able to tell DD it was going to go to a child who knew how to behave?

Don’t know, I find this age quite challenging as well. Either way, this isn’t the end of the world

[imnotreally]

I've binned toys for misbehaviour. Sometimes only way to get through to them. Don't doubt yourself.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

Can you get the toy out of the bin? If you can, please do. Don’t see it as backing down. See it as you making the wrong parenting decision and learning by your mistake. I’d then let your dd know she can earn it back. Then create a sticker chart for both of them. Lots of positive rewards. One of them needs to be “being kind to mummy”. Choose some other easy things like “putting shoes away”. They can be different for both children to reflect on age. The rewards can be things like earning a trip to the park or a magazine. Ie if they get x number of stickers. Give them both 2 warnings and then no sticker for the day. Hitting would be an immediate no sticker for me. If it’s that bad that you are hit daily perhaps you need “no hitting mummy” first then progress to “be nice to mummy”.

I absolutely agree that too much punishment breeds shame and increases bad behaviour. I had this happen as a child and I was very ashamed of who I was. I’m trying to avoid this with dd. I did remove things from dd and use the step. If I had my time again I definitely wouldn’t use the step. Dd hated it and it wasn’t effective. I only used the removal of things rarely and I would use it for serious transgressions. The problem is you’ve removed this toy too often. This is your mistake not your dds and therefore it’s your job to fix it.

It sounds tough having two cross children from a father, who is a complete arse. Give yourself some slack too. You’re just muddling through. The same as them.

[cestlavielife]

She got the new toy a week ago
There is no link of toy to behaviour.
Throwing in bin is extreme. Imagine if your things were thrown out now because you shouted.....

Make it clear
we don't shout
We don't hit
We don't call people stupid it isn't nice

Find positivity.

You and they have been thru a lot.
Let some things go.

Don't talk to her for 5 minutes if she calls you names. Ask her to say sorry.