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To think Scotland has a better future than England

(507 Posts)
hadenough Sun 10-Jun-18 02:12:52

The state of the UK today makes me utterly depressed. A Brexit voted for on the basis of lies, an anti-immigrant rhetoric, and a general attitude of unwelcome.

But yet, in Scotland, the message is very different - a focus on welcoming people to the country, an opposition to Brexit, and a real debate about the future.

It genuinely saddens me to be part of a wider country that appears intent on going back, but never forward.

LuMarie Sun 10-Jun-18 02:18:57


Everything you say! I think it has a better present, we never know the future of course, but there is a lot going for the place. Clean air, clean water, lots of space and welcoming, self-depreciating really funny and kind people.

The class system doesn't exist so much, it's not really acceptable to consider yourself better than anyone and if you do, your friends will quickly bring you back to earth. That feeling of equality and empathy running through (most) people no matter education/finances/family background leads to a much kinder society.

hadenough Sun 10-Jun-18 03:20:43

It's exactly how I feel.

I've lived in both England and Scotland, but I've always felt at home in Scotland. I don't feel a part of the greater 'British project' anymore (I'm not a natural independence supporter either).

But I can't support a country that is unwelcome, nor one that apparently looks so inward. It genuinely makes me sad that this is what we've come too.

dinosaursandtea Sun 10-Jun-18 05:25:49

Totally agree.

tillytown Sun 10-Jun-18 05:40:06

Whenever people talk about this, they always forget Wales exists and just talk about either England or Scotland. Poor Wales.

RedDwarves Sun 10-Jun-18 05:44:31

But what is Scotland actually doing?

Because it's all good and well to talk the talk, but actually doing it is a different thing entirely.

I am not from the UK, but have spent time in both England and Scotland. I saw nothing to indicate that England is going backwards, nor was I ever made to feel unwelcome. I know a lot of people who have moved to England for work, but I get the distinct impression that the same sort of work would be more difficult to come by in Scotland. The opportunities simply aren't there in the volume that they are in England.

purits Sun 10-Jun-18 05:54:20

Is that you. Nicola?

speakout Sun 10-Jun-18 06:03:36

But what is Scotland actually doing?

Right now - waiting. England is heading into a global muck pile.

In the meantime Scotland has embraced Europe.
We also continue to enjoy free University education, bursaries for student nurses, free prescriptions, a great legal and house purchase system.
I look forward to securing our place in Europe- if that is without England- however sad- then so be it.
Off to Tesco at 8am to do our weekly shop.

WelcomeToGilead Sun 10-Jun-18 06:13:29

Yeah yeah Scotland’s great.

I am Scottish and moved to England just after the referendum. Scotland is fucked because the politics are only considering the independence concept.

All this free stuff is simply bribery.

Do you honestly think that would remain once Scotland is independent!!!!??

Do you think Scotland would be allowed in the EU??

Common sense trumps patriotism in the real world guys

speakout Sun 10-Jun-18 06:20:08

All this free stuff is simply bribery.

No bribery.

It's England that has moved the goal posts.
Free prescriptions and free University education were UK wide.
The whole of the UK embraced these great social supports.
It was England that chose to remove them.
Scotland chose to retain them. For Scotland there has simply been continuity- no introduction of "bribes".

speakout Sun 10-Jun-18 06:21:00

*Do you honestly think that would remain once Scotland is independent!!!!??

Do you think Scotland would be allowed in the EU??*



athingthateveryoneneeds Sun 10-Jun-18 06:27:30

Does Scotland currently fund university fees etc out of their own taxes? Honest question, as I don't understand how that works.

speakout Sun 10-Jun-18 06:31:17

All this free stuff is simply bribery.

So like the fact that Scotland has a higher rate of income tax than England- we happily pay to support public services.
This higher tax was introduced with no protest because we value community.
92% of or power comes from renewable sources- and we are ramping up.

WittyJack Sun 10-Jun-18 06:31:27

Er - those things aren't "free". They're paid for by the tax payer. Not getting into the pointless "English taxes pay for it v we don't need the English taxes and would be better off without them" debate, just pointing out that it could change quickly with a severe drop in the economy!

Scotland has a population of what, 5,000,000? As far as I can see, its selling points are that it's very safe; bits of it are v beautiful and it's a great holiday destination; it has some cool cities; whisky; oil. Great, but which of those (or the many I have missed) would take such a small population forward on the world stage without the rest of Britain?

I'm not trying to be snarky; I'm genuinely asking because it seems to me that the relatively small population and huge areas of open quiet unspoiled space are precisely why people love to go to Scotland. How do you preserve that whilst also selling it as somewhere for economic investment etc?

speakout Sun 10-Jun-18 06:35:00


From our budget- we choose to allocate. We haven't partially privatised our NHS like England has. We don't get ripped off by private financing of health services.We have a streamlined efficient policing function.

Beaverhausen Sun 10-Jun-18 06:38:47

Do not get me wrong, i love scotland, I lived there for 5 years and would happily move back.

But no they do not have a better future than England, unemployment is higher in Scotland than England. Yes their NHS is far better but their education on the other hand is debatable.

The oil industry has not done well for almost 5years now with all the major overseas investors taking their money and moving more towards Russia and Africa for drilling. So they have lost a lot of income from that, Aberdeen is no longer as thriving as it used to be.

England is a shit tip and it is getting worse but so is Scotland and as long as Nicola Sturgeon has her own selfish agenda it will not get better. We in both England and Scotland need better leaders, people who have genuine concern about the welfare and running of both E and Sc but are more concerned with Europe and being dictated to by Europe. We need to grow some balls.

speakout Sun 10-Jun-18 06:40:05


You have been watching too many movies.

There are 10 member states in the EU with a lower population than Scotland.

WittyJack Sun 10-Jun-18 06:44:27

Right, but they're not saying they have better futures than France or Germany. If you think a small country with a population of 5m has a better future than a bigger one with a much bigger population, why do you think that?

Like it or not, that's the non Scottish perception of Scotland (perpetuated in no small part by the Scottish tourist industry - do you think people abroad get pictures of downtown Dundee or pictures of the highlands in adverts?!). So that's my question: how do you sell it for immigration and investment whilst retaining that valuable image?

speakout Sun 10-Jun-18 06:46:27

WittyJack you think Scotland is just about tourism?

speakout Sun 10-Jun-18 06:49:19

Scotland is forward thinking enough to realise the future is not in oil.

WittyJack Sun 10-Jun-18 06:51:10

As a non scot? That's mostly what you guys are known for, that and whisky. I'm NOT saying that's all there is! I'm simply saying, how do you suggest promoting/growing everything else as Scotland rather than Britain? Why do you think people would be more attracted to Scotland for living or investing than to anywhere else in Britain? And how do you sell Scotland as a bustling hub of industry without damaging the tourist image? I'm intrigued as to how you see it, not critical, because I don't know Scotland other than as a tourist?

ImNotReallyAWaitress Sun 10-Jun-18 06:54:30

Some of us do realise it.
But when you have Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond proclaiming that we should be independent and that the magical oil money will save us all on a regular basis then you can see why some would believe it.

Beaverhausen Sun 10-Jun-18 06:59:45

@ImNotReallyAWaitress The thing that Nicola Sturgeon and Ales Salmond forgot to tell people was that other than employment all Scotland got from the oil industry was the taxes.

Beaverhausen Sun 10-Jun-18 07:00:18

And the thing was that after the indie ref they all pulled out due to Nicola Sturgeon.

speakout Sun 10-Jun-18 07:01:37

That's mostly what you guys are known for, that and whisky

Don't embarrass yourself.

We have thriving biotech, financial, IT, hi tech, energy industries and yes tourism.
"Industrial" does not mean damaging tourism

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