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To think a lot of left wing people are actually close minded?

(427 Posts)
DeepFatFriar Thu 07-Jun-18 18:10:33

Close minded as in not receptive to other peoples views.

Disclaimer: i consider myself left wing.

But at the same time, I'm quite happy to have a talk with someone down the pub who might be anti immigration or anti abortion. As long as they've thought their point out properly, im open to debate and i dont feell offended by their views.
But it feels like a lot of the left wing people i come across just go into "racist twat! Fucking tory!" mode- like theyre incapable of seeing that situations are often a bit more complex than just this is right/thats wrong.

For example with Brexit, i voted remain and was gutted by the result - at the same time, i felt a bit irritated by fellow remainers "theyre all little englander tory twats" attitude to brexiters. Yeah, some of them are. Others just have a different POV, you know?

I was discussing this with my mum and she said back in her day (im assuming this means the 70s!) "conversation felt more nuanced".

It sometimes feels like a lot of left wing people just want to live in an echo chamber. I think you need to try and keep an open mind to different points of view. You clearly dont have to agree. But you can at least accept that people have different mindsets because they've had different experiences - it doesnt make them a worse person though.

MissionItsPossible Thu 07-Jun-18 18:21:02

YANBU. This post applies equally to the right too. Are you talking about online rabid left/right wing people though? Because I've seen loads of stuff online but have never actually heard anything or had awkward conversations about politics/Brexit in my own life.

LeNil Thu 07-Jun-18 18:22:11

I don’t think it’s a left or a right wing problem. It’s more a people can be dicks problem.

user1499173618 Thu 07-Jun-18 18:23:41

You get people whose minds are closed and who are full of irrational prejudice on all bits of the political spectrum.

purits Thu 07-Jun-18 18:30:16

It's the nature of the beast. Right wing tends to mean individualistic. Left wing tends to mean collective action. If the Left don't stick together then they are sunk eg it only takes a few to cross a picket line to negate the effect of a strike.

The Left are not keen on those that deviate from the agreed plan.

onlyconnect Thu 07-Jun-18 18:33:36

I agree OP. Sadly my DP has become like this too. I care far more that a person thinks and is prepared to listen to other people than whether they are left wing or right wing.
I don't know if it's because I mix with more left wing people than right wing but I think left wing people are often as you describe ( and I am left wing too).

CruCru Thu 07-Jun-18 18:35:49

I often think this, actually. A while ago, I had a leaflet through the door from a political party about some proposals to reduce speeding on our road so I mentioned them on a neighbourhood site. A few people were polite but there were a few other comments that were like being shrieked at - basically intended to shut down the discussion. I am a voter, not Chancellor of the Exchequer.

heresyandwitchcraft Thu 07-Jun-18 18:37:58

YANBU. It's a trend I have noticed as well. It strikes me as strange that the left are considered more "liberal," when they sometimes adopt ways of suppressing debate or dissent that come off as quite authoritarian.

DeepFatFriar Thu 07-Jun-18 18:38:33

@onlyconnect
Well pretty much all of my friends are left wing but i used to drink in a "right wing" pub (it was closest) and tbh i genuinely got a better level of conversation there.

I also never heard anyone be like "corbynite wankers" or "left wing twats" (although clearly there will be right wing people who come out qith stuff like that), in stark comparison to left wing friends who, as soon as something like immigration comes up, will go off on a "racist tory cunt" tirade.

I also expect more from the left because many left wing friends will pride themselves on having a live and let live, lets not control people rhetoric - but then absolutely not live and let live when it comea to differing political views!

pointythings Thu 07-Jun-18 18:38:39

I think closed minded people occur on both sides of the political divide in pretty much equal measure, to be honest. Same with the religious divide too - there are religious people who won't entertain any idea but that their faith is right and everyone else's is wrong, just as there are atheists who call anyone with faith stupid believers in sky fairies.

As a left-wing atheist I despair of the extremists on my side of the divide, but no more than I do of those on the other. If we can't listen respectfully to other views and engage in civil debate, we have lost the argument before ever having said a word.

JustLikeBefore Thu 07-Jun-18 18:39:40

I think that there are as many right wing people like that.

we're not all the same, but there are a lot people who won't see past the end of their nose. left, right and liberal

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 07-Jun-18 18:41:05

YANBU. Left wing extremists are just as bad a right wing.

DeepFatFriar Thu 07-Jun-18 18:42:54

@heresyandwitchcraft
Yeah, i think it gets to the stage where you're so strident about your views you actually end up as coming across as basically fascist.

I dont appreciate having debate shut down, i think it turns a country stupid.

For example, a potential discussion about trans children - there are so many different layers and angles to this that could be fascinating to discuss but it will just get shut down, sometimes quite aggressively, as "they are allowed to be who they want to be". Well i mean sure, but dont you think its worth exploring all the different factors that go into this question?

It feels like you get to the stage where you may as well just give people massive signs for them to hold up: THIS GOOD and THIS BAD, YOU ARE A MEAN PERSON

DeepFatFriar Thu 07-Jun-18 18:45:20

@pointythings
Not to start a debate (wink) but I've noticed a lot of atheists who use the term "sky fairy" will only use it in relation to Christians. Yet to see amyone tackle a Muslim about their belief in their "sky fairy".

Btw I'm an atheist but i dont have a problem with people having a faith.

Metoodear Thu 07-Jun-18 18:47:11

As long as they've thought their point out properly, im open to debate and i dont feell offended by their views.*i think this proves you own point people are allowed to offend and I think this is were left wingers get it wrong their happy to listen to what you have to say as long as their happy with it*confused

The other issue I have is many left wingers try to use the academic cedientals as a weapon like calling for anyone with out a degree to be banned from voting after brexit

Why dose your degree or masters

Trump my experience of immigration
I am from a BME community working class and live in high immigrant area

And often the people shouting down your experience are very white middle classes who live in leafy areas

ConciseandNice Thu 07-Jun-18 18:51:24

Dogma is frustrating whatever it’s colour, but I agree, I hear a lot of this and I am very left-wing (apparently). It’s human nature I guess to prefer a life in an echo chamber and we do, unless we actively avoid it, educate ourselves on things which support our fundamental viewpoint. So it’s a case of ever decreasing circles. It’s a shame. I love to hear different viewpoints, even if they’re not an educated or rounded viewpoint (by general
standards)

pointythings Thu 07-Jun-18 18:59:47

Well, if I were rude I'd be an equal opportunity sky fairy slinger. But I'd rather have a civil conversation. I do challenge people of faith when they say things I feel strongly about, i.e. being anti-gay, but I don't only do that to Christians.

purits Thu 07-Jun-18 19:01:31

I am very left-wing ...[but] I love to hear different viewpoints, even if they’re not an educated or rounded viewpoint.

It's posts like these that sort of proves OP's point.grin

danci Thu 07-Jun-18 19:02:31

YANBU. There tends to be a rather sheep like quality on the left where there is an almost complete uniformness of opinion across a range of subjects.

This is why I find the trans debate quite interesting because an awful lot of people on the left have broken rank and taken a different stance from the left wing orthodoxy.

I find on the right there are a lot more shades of grey. People tend to be prepared to admit that there is merit to some left wing ideas.

And yes, not writing off those who disagree with you as ‘bastards’ or ‘scum’.

That’s counterproductive for the left anyway as they’re going to need people who would consider voting right to vote for them to get into power. And calling people bastards and scum is generally not a vote winner.

Racecardriver Thu 07-Jun-18 19:04:20

No shit! There are idiots on both ends of the political spectrum and at every point between.

Racecardriver Thu 07-Jun-18 19:06:35

Would also B like to point out that this is particularly visible on the fast left because the education system is biased towards lift wing politics and 'economics' in this country. You don't see it as much in other counties because fewer people are left wing as a result of herd mentality, lack of reasoning, sheer stupidity etc.

RebelRogue Thu 07-Jun-18 19:08:44

I'll debate everything and anything that I know enough about except abortion (as I struggle enough trying to remain civil online ) .

DeepFatFriar Thu 07-Jun-18 19:10:46

@danci
I agree, there's more diversity of opinion among the right. I agree as well with the break away faction re the trans issues. It's interesting to watch some members of the left grapple with this question as its very conflictual. It reminds me of when there was that mass harrassment case of women in Germany on a square on NYE - remember that? And the perps were primarily refugees? That caused a similar "oh dear, what to think?" effect

MedSchoolRat Thu 07-Jun-18 19:11:13

Actually... it turns out that American conservatives have social circles with less diverse views. Democrats are more likely to have social contacts from wide backgrounds & Republicans more likely to have social contacts mostly like themselves

When it comes to information-seeking online, Republicans are likely to only look at few Republican sources whereas Dems look a bit broader, a bit more likely to seek out dissenting opinions.

I haven't seen any similar type research in UK; maybe Tories are more open-minded than American conservatives.

BiscayTrafalgarFitzroy Thu 07-Jun-18 19:12:23

No shit! There are idiots on both ends of the political spectrum and at every point between.

This ^

Also OP is guilty of exactly what she complains about in the left when she makes sweeping generalisations of them.

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