To think life is hard if you do the 'right thing'

[lifelifelife]

Sorry, this is going to be a bit self pitying...

I can't help but think with the way things are in this country it really can kick the people who try and do the 'right' thing and work hard to support themselves.

You get people who work full time and try to save up for a house deposit. Who say they won't have children until they can afford them, who want to have a home of their own and a stable career first so they don't have to rely on the state. In today's world this can take years, which means many people delay starting a family until their mid-30s or later. Then there's a chance of fertility problems etc... and when they have kids they have to spend a fortune on childcare and probably work full time in order to pay for their family.

Then you get people, like many I went to school with, who popped three children out before they were 20. Who have been given a house, benefits etc from the state. They say themselves there's no point working as they would be worse off. They don't have to think about whether they can afford another child as they know they will be looked after.

It really feels there isn't enough support for those who chose option 1. Really, the people hit hardest are the working class/lower middle class.

[StoorieHoose]

Welcome to the 10000000 benefit bashing thread on MN

yawn

[whatyadoing]

Oh Gosh. Having a little moan about the under-class are we?

My goodness. Have something to eat, go for a run and take a shower.

[VogueVVague]

There are those state support people.

There are also those people who get given help for a deposit to buy a house and then get an inheritance when their parents kick the bucket. But you don't mention them.

Why does the first category Annoy you but not the second?

[lifelifelife]

@StoorieHoose oh god no, if people fall on hard times or are disabled they should be entitled to anything and everything. What I can't stand is people who actually see it as an alternative to getting a job... and some do. When I was in year 11 some of the girls actually said it was their intention to claim benefits rather than work, but I did live in the sort of town where unemployment is high.

[Rainboho]

Yes, that’s exactly how it works in a nutshell. All you need to do is pop out three children and the good life is yours

You’re not very worldly are you OP.

[AnneLovesGilbert]

Would you want their lives?

[whatyadoing]

Perhaps, from your ivory tower, you could see about offering options to those women and young people; options that didn't involve having to go through 3 pregnancies and have 3 sprogs screeching at you all day everyday when you want to get educated, party and get a job!

[lifelifelife]

I think the problem is @AnneLovesGilbert many people don't see any other way. They either get a job on minimum wage, spend everything they have on rent and bills, or don't work and get more from the state. TBH I can't blame them really but it shows there's a huge problem in this country. If you do the 'right' thing you work for peanuts.

[whatyadoing]

Or just rear your offspring to be encouraged to reproduce early, preferably in woeful circumstances where their mental health is challenged to the hilt. Since you know that it's the better route.

[lifelifelife]

Exactly @whatyadoing the way this country is I can actually see why they do it. They would be worse off if they work

[whatyadoing]

Is it you that's working for peanuts? Perhaps educate yourself and get a better paid job.

[lifelifelife]

@whatyadoing actually I was talking about many of the people who go for option 2. In my hometown, most jobs are minimum wage and not even full time. That's why many go for option 2 (yes, I do actually know girls who said they had a child to get a house).

But actually even average wages are generally low compared to the standard of living and house prices, but that's another issue.

[SmashedMug]

Why don't you do the same then? If it's soooo easy?

[KatieKittens]

[DawnAnn]

I think you have summed it up perfectly. Plenty of people I went to school with started popping out kids at the earliest opportunity and still continue to breed like rabbits. They have never worked or contributed towards anything and only TAKE, TAKE, TAKE! Their offspring will be no different. Unfortunately if you plan ahead and work hard in this country it certainly doesn't pay. Your hard earned cash just ends up financing the lazy and undeserving who have been dragged up to drain society for every last penny that they can grasp...

[Battleax]

You know people are not actually “given a house” don’t you? Any more than private tenants are “given a house”?

This poisonous envy of the poor and futureless confounds me, it really does. I can’t see what there is to be jealous of.

[ArtBrut]

Amen, Battle.

[DN4GeekinDerby]

Many teenagers have weird ideas of how life is going to work for them. I imagine if a lot of people go on and on about how 'hard' it is to do things 'right' which in comparison makes the other side 'easy', some might try the 'easy' option. Which is really hard too.

Life's hard for everyone. I think you've created a false dichotomy. There is a wide range of lives. The divisions created aren't helping make things easier or less sufferable for anyone.

Many people receive benefits and tax credits while on peanut wages. Many people, on a range of wages, don't go after home ownership. I think most people have jobs rather than careers and stability in some parts of the job market is a bit of a dream. We all make our life choices, which all have pros and cons, life throws crap at us all and deal with hardships and hopefully find the joys.

[butidontwannausemyhead]

If anything, it makes you sound a little dumb for doing the right thing eh?

[shonkyklingonmakeup]

All my classmates who popped out three kids before they were 20 are living in penury. I do not envy them at all.

[butidontwannausemyhead]

If we're going down to the bone here, I grew up on a council estate with not many people that worked including my dad who was a single parent to me. We had nothing. We didn't even have carpets, or wallpaper on the walls except for one room.
Heating on was only for extremely cold days.
We didn't have money for after school activities, school trips, for hobbies, for days out and holidays. I didn't go on holiday until I was an adult. My dad had to write a letter to my Food Tech teacher complaining he couldn't afford the recipe ingredients expected of me for my GCSE so she used to sneak them to me on the quiet if I arrived early for class.

You think this life is easy, you're wrong. It was shit. It was even more shit that I knew Santa didn't exist from an early age and watched my dad struggle to put the money together to pay for Christmas and also birthdays.

There ARE people, like my relatives, who claim benefits but work on the side. They appeared rich to us. but they were fraudsters. They bought crap on credit too. They got found out and are now repaying 20 odd years worth of benefit fraud.

[TheABC]

Even if benefits were generous and "free council housing" existed, I still would not see it as a cosy existence. Looking after young children is bloody hard and sometimes mind-numbing work. I am glad my income and self-worth is not dependent on popping out babies.

[Ravenesque]

When I was a teenager back in the 80s, growing up in one of the poorest boroughs in London, I used to hear all about young women popping out children so that they'd be "given a council house/flat".

Ah, if only it was so "easy" to get a council house/flat. It wasn't then and isn't now.

Yes, a lot of teenage girls had a child or more children, but that was because they were poor, they were either poorly educated or not lucky enough to be really intelligent and see a decent future in front of them. Some of the young women came from a background of very little love and saw having a child as a chance to have someone who they could love and who would love them in return. Some of them were great mothers and some not so much. They were vilified for being a drain on the state, then as now, and no one took the time to think why young women were making these decisions and of course no one at all thought of the young men who were the fathers of these children.

If you have a society where there is very little hope for a decent future for so many, especially now that we live in a low wage, low job security culture, then you need to understand that some people will pretty much opt out of even trying, because either way they'll end up with pretty much nothing and either way they'll probably be vilified for the decisions they make.

For probably the majority of us life is hard whether you do the "right" thing or the "wrong" thing. If we all took the time to understand how and why people make these decisions we'd probably all understand each other better and judge each other less.

[UserThenLotsOfNumbers]

I've always worked and never claimed benefits.
I don't feel hard done by, neither do I judge anyone who claims benefits.
Maybe it's your attitude that's the problem OP...