Recording your doctor consultation

[NikeWin]

is legal www.bma.org.uk/connecting-doctors/bmaspace/f/21/t/314

But has anyone here done it? Covertly or what was the reaction when you asked to?
I'm planning on asking next week at my so far awful GPs. Had an experience there last year that's led to me having panic attacks and really not wanting to go alone. A chaperone from the practice doesn't strike me as a non-biased option and having a friend or partner with me robs me of the feeling I'm being taken seriously. Recording seems like protection as well as a reminder of what's been said.
NC as just posted on my Facebook about it.

[willsa]

uhhh...I'd be so tempted to do that. There have been times I'm sure it would have changed the outcome of a visit.
If I'm honest, I'm scared to ask and be "blacklisted". That says it all really.

[havanagilahava]

I seriously wouldn't. If you do, you would have to obtain the consent of the GP first, or you could get into legal difficulties.

I get that a few people have bad experiences at the GP's. But that is the vast majority of the time not the GP's fault - it's often due to the patient's unrealistic expectations of what can be achieved in a 10 minute appointment, and the ridiculous pervasive pressures and stupid demands being put on GPs by the government and the CQC.

Your GP is not actively trying to sabotage your treatment. They don't need to be 'recorded' so that you can later pull them up on any little thing they said.

You need to approach the patient-GP relationship as a partnership - you are working together to find a diagnosis and a treatment.

Don't be so paranoid and antagonistic.

[SD1978]

I’m in two minds. Whilst openly recording, fine. But if you found out that your GP was covertly recording all your interactions- would you feel happy with this? If the answer is yes, then fine. If it’s no, then it’s not reasonable. If your GP is not fulfilling his/her role- then appropriately escalate it.

[NikeWin]

Havana you do not need the GPs consent but I think it is polite and right to inform them, not do it covertly.

You've assumed a lot of things about the problems I've had in the past. You're not correct. In the worst incident their language, attitude and physical treatment was in the wrong. I'm certainly not paranoid, but I will not put myself in the position where it's my word against theirs again.

As I said, I'd be doing it to protect myself by ensuring a professional attitude was kept up and for my own reference - you can't always exactly remember the advice given to you or relay it to family afterwards. I'd be sure to reassure the doctor that the latter reason was why I was doing it, if they were worried. why should they be?

[infertililitybitch]

Not done it. Never would if there was an option to change GP. Is that a viable option for you?

[DPotter]

OK, you plan to tell the GP that you want to record the consultation - what will you do if they decline to continue if you record, which they are at perfect liberty to do, for whatever reason they want?
I would suggest you have a plan. In your 8-10min GP consultation you haven't got a lot of time to negotiate - would you consider contacting the health centre prior to your appointment and making your wishes known, so there is time for any negotiation to take place?

I was witness to a patient's family attempting to video a consultation with a consultant, who refused to continue the consultation. It was very much sprung on him (and it was in the days of very large video cameras).

[havanagilahava]

As I said, I'd be doing it to protect myself by ensuring a professional attitude was kept up and for my own reference - you can't always exactly remember the advice given to you or relay it to family afterwards. I'd be sure to reassure the doctor that the latter reason was why I was doing it, if they were worried. why should they be

a) It sounds like you need to find a new GP surgery. Clearly the relationship between you and them has broken down beyond repair at this point.

b) I don't buy the 'why should they be' argument. It's the same as the 'if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear' regarding intelligence-gathering. It's stupid and immature.

The fact is, they may not want a recording of their professional advice being kept and played to others. They're not TV/media doctors, they trained to give one to one advice in private consultations.

[havanagilahava]

Also, you didn't need the GP's consent back in 2014 according to that forum.

But the law has changed since then. I'm fairly sure the GDPR that is coming into force in the next 2 weeks would require active consent for a recording of something pertaining to an individual's professional life.

[confuddledconfuddle]

Would the easier thing not to be to change GP? If you have no confidence in your GP recording them is not going to change that.

However you do have a right to record medical consultations as it is your private information. You do need to be open about doing so.

I work in health care and if you were recording me I can honestly say you would not get my best as I would be constantly worried about what I was saying instead of just being present for you and treating in the moment.

Also if you are unhappy with how they have treated you make a formal complaint. If they are not professional to you I would imagine it is the case for other patients as well. So the more of you who complain, the dr will have to sit up and listen. It may just be they have no self awareness and it needs highlighted to them.

Wishing you all the best with your health and future treatment.

[NikeWin]

I feel, Havana that you'd rather sling insults than entertain the idea a doctor could be anything less than good and trying their best and that if care is lacking it must be the patient's fault. I suggest you look at MN a lot more, especially regarding postnatal care. As of 2017 the legal advice is correct. I'd be interested to see if anything changes since it would involve amendments to data protection. This site recommends doctors do not refuse to see a patient due to a recording being made. www.medicalprotection.org/uk/practice-matters-issue-7/digital-dilemmas---patients-recording-consultations

I don't switch practices because there are two good doctors at it and I live rurally. Of course, the chances of getting the doctor you want are slim, but I do have a note on my file not to see the particularly awful one.

I can't make a complaint as in the situation that's resulted in panic attacks, it would be, as I said, my word against theirs and I have no desire to rehash with a panel what took me a long time to get the courage to go to the doctors about in the first place.

[Pumkinfailure]

I’m a GP and I know that patients do this (I’m not aware it’s happened to me but we all have to practice as if it is happening) it’s a real shame as it definitely influences the doctor patient relationship in general and definitely has an impact on how I consult now. I have always been a good doctor but knowing patients may be recording me does affect the dynamic somewhat.

[NoYouDontHaveThat]

If you recorded covertly, you may be in the position of the GP refusing to see you again.

[NikeWin]

*regressive amendments ie. removing power from the individual by saying their personal data is not theirs to do with as they will. Perhaps covert recording will be affected. But with medical records being moved online, recording for personal use shouldn't be banned. Perhaps there will even be official recordings in the future.

[infertililitybitch]

If you have two good doctors is it not that you only book with them as the solution?

Or do you mean you have anxiety that any GP might behave badly towards you and want to record it to avoid it being their word against yours?

[nolongerblue]

I hear you NIke. I have had a lot of experience of doctors/ health professionals /the health service and have had some horrendous experiences. This is compounded by the culture of not listening when concerns are raised, denying their is a problem and seeking to blame the person complaining. I I wouldn't complain, simply because i have learnt that trying to raise concerns (which I naively thought would be welcomed, and I did in a polite helpful way, as a way to improve the service) is hopeless. The system instantly goes in to defence mechanism, and I got met with denial and outright lies. They were clearly only interested in protecting themselves. It gets very stressful and you get nowhere. I was in Scotland, but the report that came out a few years ago on the NHS in England and its failure in handling and learning from patients' complaints was exactly my experience too.

[NikeWin]

Originally I asked if anyone had done this. I suspect very few people know they can. I understand it might alter the dynamic, but in the case of doctors who are really pretty unpleasant, that's a good thing. If you want patients to be protected from them, you can recognise that the total privacy of a one to one consultation allows for things to occur that shouldn't occur (and of course that works both ways - there are awful patients too, in which case, their recording wouldn't show them in a good light and would only help the doctor if any disputes arose)

[NikeWin]

infertilitybitch I would always book with them if I could, but it's not always possible. And yes to the latter.

[infertililitybitch]

Ah I see. Would it be at all possible to book with a nice dr and explain that you've been left with this anxiety and therefore would like to record your consultations going forward (not the one where you necessarily have this convo, maybe a friend could be present for emotional handholding through that?)

It's possible they'd be very understanding and it would be a less confrontational way of beginning it as they could put it in your notes that you will record with all GPs at the surgery and may get a more sympathetic understanding of your wishes. Any GP would know from your notes prior to an appointment it would be recorded so isn't personal iyswim?

[woollyheart]

Yes, I suspect that is not very commonly done. But, as with recording in care homes, it can protect both parties and encourage a professional attitude. I certainly sometimes wish that I had a recording/transcript of what the doctor had said in a very short time we get. Certainly with my elderly parents, they have forgotten most of it by the time they get home. They will remember the main point but not everything that was said.

[Onlyjoinedforthisthread]

I haven't done it and don't think I would, I'd change gp if needed and I would complain if needed. All doctors are different some are more direct than others and I prefer that but other people don't. There are bad doctors as there are bad everything else. I wouldn't want to be recorded in my job as it's intimidating and effects my thought process as I'd be conscious of being recorded. I certainly wouldn't be happy if the doctor recorded my consultation and it could get into the public domain.
I hope you manage to regain confidence in your doctors

[itstimeforanamechange]

I can understand why you might want to do it on occasion. My mum says she's had consultations with GPs or consultants and if she doesn't write everything down she can't remember all the detail of was said. It might be helpful to listen to the conversation again at a later date in those circumstances.

[SunnySkiesSleepsintheMorning]

I’d like to be able to record appts because I have many and I often forget things. I don’t see why a doctor would take offence and if they do, that’s their problem.

I have been recorded by clients and I don’t take it as a personal slight or criticism of my practice. Part of working with the public is dealing with those who may be challenging. If you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[TryThinkingBeforePosting]

An NHS clinician does not have any right to refuse medical advice or treatment to a patient merely because that patient wants to take\is taking, whether overtly or covertly, an audio-recording of their own personal consultation behind closed doors (as a personal activity). There is no ‘right to decline’ the service to which the patient is statutorily entitled in these circumstances, and still less is the patient under any obligation whatsoever to justify or explain to anyone their decision so to record.

The NHS finally acknowledged this in May 2016, in a document you access here:-

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/379944/response/916674/attach/html/3/Patients%20recording%20NHS%20staff%20in%20health%20and%20social%20care%20settings%20guidance%20May%202016.pdf.html

There is no ’equivalent’ or ‘reciprocal’ entitlement for a clinician to record a patient without the patient’s permission. That would be part of a professional not a personal activity (and likely to contravene Data Protection legislation as a consequence); and, other than in exceptional circumstances, it would also be prohibited by the rules of professional conduct maintained by the General Medical Council.

In commenting as above, I have used some language from legislation which comes into force tomorrow, but which, as regards this specific topic, makes no difference to the legal regime which applies today, as indeed it has for many years.

Having studied this subject most of this millennium, I have come to the not-very-difficult conclusion that the predominant reason why patients often record covertly is because they fear that the clinician(s) involved may remain ignorant of the law and practice which applies, and, coupling that ignorance with arrogance, might act may act in a petulant, obstructive, even hostile, fashion, if the patient says their want to audio-record their consultation – potentially to the great detriment of their healthcare.

I have also come to the not-very-difficult conclusion that in far too many cases patients would be right so to fear.

This is not an impasse. Clued-up patients will simply go on recording covertly, and the latest evidence suggests that maybe 15% to 20% in the UK already do just that. If clinicians would prefer that any recording was done overtly, they need simply to put a notice up in their waiting-rooms saying that patients are welcome to audio-record their own, personal, consultations openly. Easy. Furthermore, patients’ covert recordings can be produced in legal and disciplinary proceedings, and indeed have been, with serious consequences for the doctors concerned. You would think by now physicians would have worked out the best course of action here…, but I am aware of exactly one such notice in the UK (actually its in a GP Practice’s website blurb, but it’s the same point).

Good health to all contributors and viewers, and thanks to OP for starting (and, if I may say so, sanely ‘stewarding’) this thread.

[LifeBeginsAtGin]

You obviously have a poor relationship with this GP so are you wanting to record his/her advice to listen to at home, or record them in order to complain and then shout 'I have evidence'?

Out of courtesy I would forewarn the GP you wish to record the consultation, however if you already have a difficult relationship with another GP and now you are wanting record another they may consider asking you to leave the practice if they feel their relationship with you has broken down.

[TryThinkingBeforePosting]

Yawn