for simpy being fed up with poopy pants, sigh

[3andnomore]

My ms is 4 1/2 years old now, and is pottytrained for wees for a year....we are a year on, and he still has severe issues in the poo departement...I often have to clean up 2 or more poo accidents a day for a year now...I am soooooooooooooo fed up...fricking star chart, doesn't work, nothing works, tried it all, and just the thought of yet another pair of pooped in pants to wash make me feel physically sick....I have, in the past weeks thrown a fair few pairs out, because the thought of washing them just was to much...but of course can't do this all the time.
To be honest, I am sitting here in tears, because I can't take this anymore. Tjis just can't be bloody normal....surely there comes a point when a child just bloody learns....never had these issues with es...however, ms did have some constipation issues and is on Movicol, but poo is nice and soft now and doesn't hurt, or anything...so why can't he just use the toilet all teh time...he does occasionally, however it's a drag to get him onto it and he cna sit on it and not do anything, only to present me with yet another pooped full pair of pants just minutes later.
I am definately loosing my cool, I am frustrated and to be honest, htre are moments where I just want to walk out on them...! (pooing obviously not the only issue, lol)....
just needed a rant really!

[FrannyandZooey]

This sounds really miserable for you, I am so sorry to hear this. I am sorry I haven't any advice but just wanted to give you some support

[issyissyissy]

Poor you. Kids can be so frustrating at times! Have you spoken to the health visitor or gp about this? It may be related back to being constipated, the feeling of pain or worry may stil be there even though it is no longer an issue.

[issyissyissy]

I remember now that a friend's daughter was still having problems when she started school and that was to do with previous bout of constipation.
If you are finding it hard right now, have you thought of using pull ups for a while? At least they can still be pulled down for wee, but thrown away with poo.

[FrannyandZooey]

Pull ups sound like a great idea, and may take the fear element out of it for your ds as well as cutting down on your washing

little boys do seem to be a bit odd about doing poos on the toilet

[WigWamBam]

My dd was odd about doing poos in the toilet ... she still is, and she's nearly 6. It took 15 months after she was dry before she would go anywhere near the toilet to poo, and she still only goes under protest (and the influence of mega-doses of Lactulose) now.

Do you think that he knows when he needs a poo, and is just not happy about doing them in the toilet? If so, maybe he would be happy to ask for a nappy for a poo - if you would be happy to let him have one. It has to be easier on both of you than pooey nappies.

[WigWamBam]

It has to be easier on both of you than pooey pants.

Sorry, I forgot to put my brains in before I posted ...

[Elasticwoman]

3andnomore I've been there too, and I know how frustrated and desperate you feel. My ds was dry day and night for over a year before he condescended to poo on the loo (wouldn't consider potty at all)and I nearly went nuts. We even had to buy this house because when we were viewing it, he went in a cupboard and pooed his pants and I was so embarrassed. Esp as I had brought spares with me so it looked as if I knew he would do it. In the end, he just did it when he was ready. He was never constipated, but I think his fear of the loo was greater than any treat I could think of. I just had to keep encouraging him and took every opportunity to let him see that other children did it. I drew the line at letting him see me do it (as is one recommendation)as I am a private pooer.

There is a book called Everybody Poos which is really good. By some Scandiwegian type I think. Ds loved that book, but still didn't poo on the loo till he was well over 4 and already at nursery.

[WigWamBam]

We used Everybody Poos as well ... and The Little Mole who knew it was None Of His Business. Everything we could buy about pooing, we bought. Every bribe we could think of, we bribed. Did bugger all good - even the pile of chocolate lollipops we bought as bribes went past their sell-by, and dd is a complete chocoholic. The hysterical screaming and sobbing that mentioning the word "toilet" used to elicit ... horrible.

The only answer for us, as for Elasticwoman, was time, and going easy on dd to reduce her stress as well as ours. Hence letting her have a nappy when she wanted one for a poo. It comes, in the end - it just takes a long time in some cases.

3andnomore, I probably still have the books in dd's bedroom and you would be welcome to them if you think they would help.

[Elasticwoman]

Wigwam I wish I knew you when I was going through this. I used to ask every one I knew how they got their child to poo on the loo, and they all looked at me as though I'd asked how did I get them to eat sweets or watch tv. A lot of people implied it was my fault for doing something wrong.

A mother's place is in the wrong.

[WigWamBam]

Yep - me too. I didn't know anyone else who was going through the same thing, and as you say, if you ask other people, they look at you as if you've got three heads.

And then I found MN and realised how common it is, and how I wasn't a freak after all (well, not in that respect, anyway [wink}).

[frazzledfairy]

my ds1 is 6 1/2 and has been on movicol since june because of chronic constipation. he has never had a hard poo ever so i would be wary of thinking he isn't constipated. my ds has improved immensely since being on movicol, he now has 1-2 (on average) small accidents a week.

if your ds is constipated he won't be able to feel the poo coming out bless him. i know its frustrating but it's not his fault. i think you should go to primark (!) and stock up on pants, they do 10 pairs for £3! it is soul destroying washing pants and i felt better as soon as i started chucking em. (know it's not great for the environment but your sanity needs to come first )

also there will be a soiling/constipation clinic near you, get your gp to refer you.

ii is just something that has become part of our lives and i do think you have to think of it as a medical thing that he has no control over. it is hard though, sometimes i feel like my days are full of bottoms and poo (also have ds2 8 1/2 months who is in nappies and am expecting no 3 in nov and fear i may drown in poo then )

[Elasticwoman]

My ds has never been constipated. The one thing I felt better about was that all his bowel movements seemed healthy. I think your ds's problem is different, Frazzled. Hope you get it sorted out soon. You have my sympathy.

[luciemule]

Hello - I am going through exactly the same thing with my dd (5) and she's been like this pretty much from being dry in the day and night from wees. She's seen 2 paeds doctors and both said she's constipated, although now she's under a constipation nurse at Yeovil Hospital, who is really good, but I have just booked another paed docs oppointment as I'm worried that after being on Movicol for almost another year,the probelm hasn't corrected itself.
Have you got the Bristol poo scale - it should be online. There's a sheet you can get to write down time of poo/day/size etc which hekps to show any specialists a pattern of bowel movements and there are some really good support websites for bowel incontinence.
Not sure if you know but once the bowel has enlarged through constipation it can take a very long time (even more than a year) to reduce back down to its normal size and unitl it does, poo accidents (runny poo sneaking past the constipation lump) will still happen. My DD knows when she needs to pass the big bit and goes to the loo but can't feel the other poo coming and that's when you have the knicker accidents. I just throw them away in a nappy bag - fed up making myself sick soaking, washing/re-washing.
Signs I notice when DD needs to go are sitting crossed legged with a foot held against her bottom to 'hold it in', she also used to hide under the table or behind the curtains. This didn't mean she was trying to hide whilst she went and did the poo but trying to hide whilst she stopped herself. She also now has frequent wee accidents as she's trying to hold that so poo doesn't come out.
I really empathise with you - it is draining and only a month or so ago, I broke down in front of her teacher, who didn't think I was insane and said it was a common problem. I would ask to be referred to either a constipation specialist or at least a paediatric consultant.

[chocolattegirl]

My dd still gets 'birdy' as we call it in her knickers from time to time. From banning chocolate from Sunday-Thursday nights, I'm currently trialling her eating a small piece everyday to train her bowel that this is a normal piece of food and thus can be processed in the normal fashion, without giving her diahorra. I've also been recommended to give her some prune juice to make sure her system is cleaned out properly as she does seem prone to constipation (she isn't that great on drinking water).

[Elasticwoman]

Let's clear up the constipation issue once and for all. 3andnomore - are the 'accidents' leaks of runny faecal matter or normal sized soft enough stools? I assumed the latter from your first post. If so this isn't about constipation, it's about a psychological block to using the loo.

[3andnomore]

Hi,
thank you all so much for your replies....it does help to see we are not the only ones...well, I knew we weren't...but you know what I mean.
He won't ask for a Nappy to poo in, we tried that one, and if I put pull-ups on him he will just revert into Nappy mentality...i.e. won't go for wees to the toilet....so, it's to much of a step backwards, iykwim...I have no problem him pooing into Nappies, as indeed it's easier then dealing with poopy pants, he often has a poo in the morning, when he is still wearing his Nightnappy.
I had him actually out of Nightnappy's and we did have some success...i.e. he didn't wet the bed or anything, but his pooing went from bad to worse, so, I put him back into the Nihgtnappy.
Wigwambam, I would really like those Books. I am sure it would help...well...one can but try, eh! Please, E-mail me on: [email protected]
Frazzled, will see if my GP can be off more help....think is, surely he knows (my son now, not the GP) when he needs a poo, as he does often hide away for them...hm.... He has been on Movicol now for about 6 month or even longer.
And Frazzled, am wiht you with having a younger one in Nappies, still, too...albeit, my youngest is 3 in the summer, and we will be doing Pottytraining in the summerholidays, and am hoping that he is more like his oldest brother, who we never had these issues with, sigh....but you will still have a fair few years dealing with all this, eh...!
Luciemule...hm...maybe the hiding isn'tthen a sign of him knowing when he needs to go...or rationalising it as such...hm...!
I do realise that it can take time for the Bowel to return to normal....!
suppose another issue for me is, my anger with previous HC=providers...I have been asking my previous Doctors, etc...about him being constipated, etc...but never been taken serious...grrr....and this problem could have possibly been sorted years ago....sigh!
Elastic woman....it cna be really small lil poopy spots, and it can be regular sized, softs but not runny poos....! He can have rather dry poos....maybe it's a bit of everything...oh I don't know....I suppose these issues are never clear cut....!
As for throwing out all pooped in pants...gosh, even the cheap pants would soon have us poor, if I do it with all of them, lol...I do the worsed ones, but can't bring myself to just chuck them all, no matter how much I hate soaking them, etc....!
Like I sad, thanks ever so much for all your replies.

[luciemule]

How do you mean Elasticwoman as my DD's poo is very soft once it's in the toilet but huge and the biggest poos you ever did see.
I am wondering that if she's on the Movicol, why she isn't able to go more regularly and do normal sized poos.
I think that's what 3andnomore meant when she said the poo was soft (due to being on the movicol).
I'm following this thread with much interest as it's such a common problem and I find it very hard to believe that over 200 kids in my area alone have constipation' and need to be on movicol!

[luciemule]

3andnomore - constipation nurse said that dried poo, as sometimes appears in knickers of DD, is stuff that's been there for ages and is starting to rot! Therefore I don't understand as Movicol is supposed to clear them out within 3ish days.
More really needs to be done to help parents overcome this. My DD is very active, drinks a lot more than some kids and hads a very healthy diet when it comes to fruit and veg.

[mummydoit]

3andnomore. I wish I had some advice for you but all I can offer is sympathy. I could have written your post myself as I am in an identical situation with DS1. I have days when I literally cry with frustration when faced with yet another pair of dirty pants. All I can say is feel free to rant away when you need it. There are plenty of us here who know just how you feel.

[frazzledfairy]

hello i just wanted to clarify that i would never have guessed ds1 had constipation, he has never been in pain with it, he has never sat on the loo straining to go, he has never had a hard poo.

when i first went to the gp and she suggested it might be constipation i thought she was bonkers!

possible tmi alert but the poo in a constipated childs pants is poo leaking around the blockage within iyswim! it doesn't have to be hard.

i think the reason it keeps happening is that the blockage recurs (they are prone to it), not 100% sure, will check at our next clinic app.

not saying that 3andnomore's ds is constipated, just definately something to consider and not to rule it out because it isn't typically what you would imagine to be constipation

[MuminBrum]

Me too - my DS (3.1) is brilliant with weeing but but always poos in his pants or a pullup. I am certain there's nothing physiologically wrong and that I just have to wait it out until he's emotionally ready to do it in the loo, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't drive me nuts. FF, I know exactly what you mean about drowning in poo - until DS was 21 months old I had a colostomy bag - and our poor old cat became incontinent - so what with all that and nappies too, there was a bit too much poo in my life. So I suppose I shouldn't grumble about the poopy pant situation now, as the poo count is much lower than it was!

[3andnomore]

FF, well, seeing that DS is on Movicol, I suppose he does have a longterm constipation problem...and In know that it can leak and indeed the leakage will most likely be runny...I just thought we would see more improvement by now, sigh!And sometimes it's definately not just leakage, but a full blown poo.
It's a bit of a chicen and egg situation with him...because he is holding back, and then soils, he has to sit on the loo until he done a reasonable sized poo, which takes him a while, so, he gets bored and I suppose believes the Toilet means a long time away from play....whereas, if he would just blinking go without wihtolding it would only take him a minute, and he could continoue to play...but I suppose, he doesn't know that....sigh!

I must admit, I am a bit worried for when he starts Big school, which will be in September, so, not long now....he is alright 1/2 days in Nursery, as, if he does need a poo in the morning, it goes into the Nightnappy, but by the afternoon he often needs another poo...what if he constantly soils himself....the other Kids will laugh at him and school will probably have to call me in every blinking time, as they are not even allowed to help them wipe themselfs...so, full blown soiling is probably not something they will deal with...sigh! But, he is already almost 5 by the time he will start school, so, keeping him out of school for a year is really not an option, especially as he is ever so keen to go.
I did tell him, that he can't start Big school until he stops pooing himself...not that that is paedagogically good, I suppose, nor does it work, it seems...!
I suppose what I need to establish is, if he actually knows when he needs a poo or not...

[luciemule]

3andnomore - it's competely up to you of course and I'm not judging you at all but I'd be a little cautious letting him know he can use doing a poo or not as a power thing (eg - can't go to school until he stops pooing). I started off telling my daughter off every time she pooed (and MIL still does) but now I just say whoops, perhaps you need to sit on the toilet and see if you can some more and clean her up.
It's important not to make any issue of it otherwise they'll use it against you whenever they can. But really praise when he does use toilet.
Also, 'Poo nurse' said just because they've had an small acciednt, doesn't necessarily mean they're ready for the big poo to come out so they might be sitting there for hours waiting for it.

[SoMuchToBits]

Hi I'm another one here really fed up with poo! Our 6 yr old ds is still having problems. He suffered from constipation very early in life, despite healthy diet etc, so was on Lactulose for a long time. When he was potty trained (which was quite late) we got the wees cracked pretty quickly, but the poos took ages to sort out. At least a year before we had regular success.

When he started school, he seemed to have very few accidents, and at that point wasn't on the lactulose any more. However, last autumn he atarted having a lot of accidents again. We took him to the Gp, who said he had become constipated, and he is now back on lactulose and also senna. The GP explained that when they are constipated, the bowel does beacome stretched, and it can take several months after the constipation has been resolved for the bowel to shrink back down. This means that sometimes when they need to do a small/medium sized poo rather than a big one, they can't feel it, because the bowel has lost tone, and is quite slack, and this is what causes a lot of the accidents even when the constipation itself is better.

Our ds is now having on average about 1-2 accidents a week, which is better than the 4-5 he was having in the autumn. However, I still find it hard to deal with, and just wish we didn't have to worry all the time about accidents. I'm really fed up with taking spare pants everywhere, and although school are very good and understanding, I'm reluctant to leave him at parties etc, if I think there is a chance he might have an accident - I would hate for someone else's mum etc to have to clean him up.

[frazzledfairy]

my ds1 has been on movicol for about 11 months now i think and still has on average 4-6 accidents a month, alot better than he was!

try not to worry about school, my ds has only had 2 accidents in nearly 2 years of school and no kids have even noticed, too wrapped up in themselves at that age i think

try not to let him see your concerned about it, i think some kids can get into a habit of hiding pants and i can't imagine thats pleasant

have you tried doing 'sits' with him? where he sits on the loo for 5 mins after breakfast, lunch and tea? he needs to try and push every now and then while on the loo, apparently blowing bubbles (from the little tubs) activates the right muscles! you can read to him while he's sitting, i used to read to ds but now he reads to himself, think he quite enjoys the peace! (just like his dad) if he does a poo he can miss out the rest of the sits for that day. also try to get him to tell you when he has an accident, lots of praise etc.

hth