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To think the NHS "pay deal" is sugar-coated shite?

(111 Posts)
SplitterBug Thu 22-Mar-18 15:06:25

The government and NHS employers are spinning this as a massive pay rise - having looked at the documents, I'm not so sure.

I'd implore all NHS workers affected to look at the details (on NHS Employers website) before deciding which way to vote. A lot of devil in the detail. A lot of questions still unanswered.

Firstly - the 6.5% over three years works out at 2.1% compounded per year - i.e. below inflation.

Secondly - the large % rises being quoted by the media for certain pay points completely ignore the fact that these staff would previously have had incremental pay rises anyway - e.g. a Band 5 nurse starting at 22128 would progress to 26970 under the new "pay deal" - stated to be a 21.88% rise over 3 years. But under the old increment system they'd have progressed with increased experience up to 25551 anyway. So the pay rise is actually only 5.55% (i.e. less than inflation).

Thirdly - the increments within bands will now require hoop-jumping, target-meeting. How challenging will this be?

Fourthly - the lower paid bands 1-3 are having a REDUCTION in their antisocial hours percentage pay premium which will claw back some of their rise.

(Not affected personally, but many people I know will be).

ImKait Thu 22-Mar-18 15:09:58

A lot of people would kill for a guaranteed pay rise that wasn't even related to their personal performance...

I honestly think they could've announced doubling their pay and some people would still be up in arms.

rascallyrascal Thu 22-Mar-18 15:12:10

It works out as a 3% pay rise a year. Inflation next year is set to be 2.4%. So I think it's a shitty deal for your average nurse.

FadedRed Thu 22-Mar-18 15:12:47

NHS pay rises have been a political con trick for the past three decades. This is no different.

MrsJoshDun Thu 22-Mar-18 15:16:02

It doesn’t even work out at 3% a year. It’s a shit, below inflation offer.

I guess if you’re at the bottom of a band it looks good. But it shits over the experienced staff at the top of a band.

HariboIsMyCrack Thu 22-Mar-18 15:16:44

Agree with ImKait - some people will complain regardless.

Pay rise seems decent to me, particularly when increments are considered. (For most people outside the NHS, "O% pay rise" means exactly that.)

Plus holiday and pension extremely generous compared to just about everywhere else.

FlippingFoal Thu 22-Mar-18 15:20:58

It isn't 3% It is 3% the first year, 2% the second year and 1% for the third. Initially this was in exchange for the loss of a day's holiday - they were told to get stuffed for that

Ubercornsdiscoball Thu 22-Mar-18 15:24:55

I’m too if my band. Have been for 6 years. I cannot go up a band currently due to the type of hours I work due to having very young children. I have had no pay rise for years, no reason do I receive an increment in my pay each year as I progress through a band.

This ‘deal’ is horrific for me. 6.5% over 3 years after years of nothing is insulting. Newly qualified and people lower in their band do brilliantly. Those of us with experience? What is the point?

Ubercornsdiscoball Thu 22-Mar-18 15:25:52

They have worked at changing our pension for years. It used to be final salary but they have quietly dismantled that for most

Ubercornsdiscoball Thu 22-Mar-18 15:27:05

Sorry, typos. I am top of my band and for this reason do not receive increments if people were wondering about my first post!

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Thu 22-Mar-18 15:42:13

If this was supposed to stop the exodus of staff and ameliorate the recruitment issues I can’t see it working.

Although I suppose it does answer the question about what they were going to do about the lower scale points being lower than the promised increases in minimum wage.

UpstartCrow Thu 22-Mar-18 15:42:38

Given that many NHS frontline staff are working extra hours for free, its taking the piss.

opionated Thu 22-Mar-18 15:45:13

i have a simple rule if you dont like your job get a new one
They have worked at changing our pension for years. It used to be final salary but they have quietly dismantled that for most rightly so your pension should be related to what you put into it

BumpowderSneezeonAndSnot Thu 22-Mar-18 15:46:50

You could always resign and get a job at a local authority if you don't like the t&cs and then see how their wages rise. Oh that's right. They haven't and wont.

QuackPorridgeBacon Thu 22-Mar-18 15:47:32

I don’t know much about it but I guess it is better than nothing. Not great and I think they have to lose a days holiday? But better than nothing.

opionated Thu 22-Mar-18 15:49:58

I’m too if my band. Have been for 6 years. I cannot go up a band currently due to the type of hours I work due to having very young children. I have had no pay rise for years, no reason do I receive an increment in my pay each year as I progress through a band.
or you could say ive been in my band six years because for personal reasons i decided not to work the hours necacary to achieve that i mean it cant be a surprise to you that working unsociable hours is part of the nhs.

Ubercornsdiscoball Thu 22-Mar-18 15:50:11

Yes it’s so easy to get a new job from a vocation that you have done years of training at university for hmm

And yes you’re right. Let’s just scrap our pensions. It’s not like we pay a large proportion into them, or work longer hours or give up rest breaks for the good of others. We do it all for fun. If you go into a pension scheme I damn well expect them not to move the goalposts

Twinkie1 Thu 22-Mar-18 15:51:14

I think in respect of the private sector the public sector get a better deal on pay rises, holidays, sick pay, pensions and being able to cover bank shifts for extra money.

Ubercornsdiscoball Thu 22-Mar-18 15:52:26

I work very unsociable hours at the moment thank you and it suits them. They do not need an extra senior on those shifts however. I have toddlers. They are my priority but I get penalised twice for that?!

Twinkie1 Thu 22-Mar-18 15:53:02

Everyone's goal posts have been moved in respect of pensions. It's the inability of most to understand that goal posts need to move drastically in most areas relating to finances that has put the NHS in the toilet.

Rainboho Thu 22-Mar-18 15:53:38

These days I find most things to be sugarcoated shite. Its the basic premise I work from.

Ubercornsdiscoball Thu 22-Mar-18 15:54:26

My husband is private sector and gets far better pay rises, holiday etc and yet even he agrees I work far harder than him on an hour-to-hour basis

opionated Thu 22-Mar-18 15:58:00

Yes it’s so easy to get a new job from a vocation that you have done years of training at university for hmm
umm lots of staff dont go to university and im guessing they knew the deal when they went in. and if they are as smart as you say they would get a job no problem.

TheFairyCaravan Thu 22-Mar-18 15:58:11

It’s a better sugar-coated shite deal than the 1% a lot of public sector workers are still getting.

Bluelady Thu 22-Mar-18 15:59:55

It's a completely shit deal for people who have seen their pay progressively cut in real terms for eight years. No wonder the NHS is haemorrhaging staff.

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