Swimming changing

[hunkadunka]

My DC mentioned today that when they go swimming with school, they are supervised, they said 'watched', in the single sex changing rooms by a TA of the opposite sex. DC says it makes them feel uncomfortable. They are year 4.



Fairly obviously, I'm talking about a group of boys, being supervised by a female teacher. We both feel that a male member of staff would never be allowed to do this in the girls' changing room. There are no male TAs, so no possible male supervisor. However, again, I feel that if the sexes were the other way around, it would be deemed so unacceptable, as to be sorted in some way. There are male members of pool staff, but nothing to do with the school.

My DS knows about male privilege, and that girls would be more concerned about men in the changing rooms because our society sexualises young women, and we have a problem with male violence. We genuinely have these conversations. So I've explained that this is why it's seen as less of an issue having a woman in the boys' changing rooms. However, he feels that he and the other lads would feel more comfortable with male supervision.

Is my DS BU?

[bottleofredplease]

I'm not sure how a 7/8 year old would have any understanding of the sexualisation of young girls?

[hunkadunka]

He's 9 1/2. And only today he asked me why pre-pubertal girls are made to cover their chests, when they're no different to boys. Which is why we had, again, the chat about sexualisation of young girls.

But that's a side issue to the changing rooms. I was just pre-empting the 'it's because men are more likely to be paedos' argument, which I presented to him, in more educated terms, and he acknowledged, but still felt he and his male friends deserved the same treatment as girls in terms of same-sex supervision.

[itsbetterthanabox]

Not unreasonable. Ask the school.

[OutyMcOutface]

I would imagine that a male TA wouldn't be allowed to supervise boys either-all men a pedophiles don't you know?

[hunkadunka]

When they had a male teacher, he says he did supervise, and the boys preferred it.

But now there is no option of male supervision from the school, so I don't think the school can do much.

But I think they would, were it the other way round, iyswim? And I'm finding that hard to explain.

[fuzzyfozzy]

We always took 4 staff two in each changing room and always tried to take a male member of staff.
We always tried to 'ignore' the children as much as possible so it wasn't awkward. And tried to get them dressed as quickly as possible.

[Sleepless123456789]

I'd talk to the school, see if they can sort something out.

[missyB1]

I would be grateful if anyone supervised my Year 4 ds and his classmates in the changing rooms. Unfortunately the TA stays outside for some bizarre reason, and unsurprisingly all sorts of unpleasantness goes on as a result.

[Julie8008]

Sorry dont see the problem with a male or female teacher supervising Y4 children.

[hunkadunka]

Julie so you wouldn't have a problem with a male teacher supervising the year 4 girls' getting changed, no cubicles?

missyB1 And that is one reason I'm reticent to raise it with the school. The answers may well be 'well, we can't take the swimming', or leaving them unsupervised, and the subsequent carnage.

[Julie8008]

so you wouldn't have a problem with a male teacher supervising the year 4 girls' getting changed, no cubicles?

They are a teacher, no I dont have a problem with a male teacher supervising Y4 girls. I dont see every teacher as a paedophile. Its that kind of attitude that stops male teachers going into primary.

[FlouncyDoves]

As a male primary teacher I can assure you that they all get changed for PE in the classroom anyway. What’s the difference? So the female TA sees a boy’s prepubescent penis. He needs to get on with it and as his mother you should encourage him to do so.

[hunkadunka]

I don't see every teacher as a paedophile, either.

But history says that school/football/gymnastics changing rooms have been prime targets for paedophiles, and statistically, those paedophiles are more likely to be male. However, I think my DC are at low risk from paedophiles, mainly due to the open and honest discussions we have, so I'm not at all worried about paedophilia. My objection to a male supervising girls getting changed would be more about teaching them autonomy, and that they don't ever have to get undressed in front of a man unless they choose to. So I'm questioning myself when my DS is asking for the same courtesy, and I don't think I can provide it.

I don't think the facts about paedophile prevalence are why there are few men in primary teaching, btw. It's more to do with pay, and perceived status of 'caring' type roles.

[hunkadunka]

Flouncy- because it's his pre-pubescent penis, and the PANTS rule etc teaches him 'privates are private', and it should be up to him who sees it, not the school/TA, and he should be allowed to engage with the curriculum without being forced to show his penis to a woman, bluntly.

TBH, it surprised me, because he is usually a child who needs to be told to put it away! But he's right that it should be up to him who sees his bits.

[hunkadunka]

And Flouncy, would you, too, take Julia's line, and be ok with a male TA looking at pre-pubescent girls, whether they objected or not?

[HairyBallTheorem]

It's an issue my DS (year 5) has also raised. He feels uncomfortable changing in front of members of the opposite sex - because he just is a private person (I'm actually much more relaxed about these things than he is, albeit as an adult). At his school if there wasn't a male teacher/TA available to supervise, the boys had to change under their towels at the edge of the pool (old-fashioned pool with communal changing rooms for each sex, also used by members of the public, so you couldn't send a female teacher in there with the boys).

Like hunka says, it's not a case of any of us thinking "all men are paedos" (how strange that there always seems to be one poster who pops up to fling that accusation around, even though it's completely groundless), it's a case of the "pants rule" and teaching our children about bodily autonomy and their body, their choice.

Children do seem to start to feel self conscious round this sort of age (8+), and I don't think it's incumbent upon adults to insist on browbeating them into ignoring those feelings.

[Eliza9917]

Just tell him to change with his back to the TA or with a towel round him, that's what we did at school.

[lou1221]

When our children go swimming, we have a male member of staff supervising the boys and female staff supervising girls.

[EndoplasmicReticulum]

When my son was in year 4 swimming nobody supervised the boys (I guess as all the staff taking them swimming were female).

They could have done with some supervision tbh. Put 20 year 4 boys in a changing room with no adult and expect them to get changed with no messing about? Not going to happen.

I don't know what the solution is really.

[PrincessHairyMclary]

My DD doesn't want to get changed in front of anyone so I brought her a [https://www.<a class="break-all" href="//amazon.co.uk/Adore-Unisex-Changing-Towelling-Swimming/dp/B01LB7LNVA/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=Changing%20robe&ie=UTF8&qid=1519511598&sr=8-8&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">https://amazon.co.uk/Adore-Unisex-Changing-Towelling-Swimming/dp/B01LB7LNVA/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1519511598&sr=8-8&keywords=Changing%20robe&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 Changing robe] . Problem solved. If the school doesn't have male staff then theres not much they can do apart from not supervise.

[NotAgainYoda]

Is this an open communal changing area, or cubicles?

[NotAgainYoda]

And yes, you could get him a towel to change under

[BunloafAndCrumpets]

I used to put my pants on under a towel in communal change rooms at school - can he do this? I know it avoids the issue but perhaps that's what you want re preserving swimming and supervision

Agree with flounce that mixed classes all get changed for pe in primary in the classroom, together, with whatever gender of teacher they happen to have present. How is this different?

[Garmadonsmum]

I dont see how pe changing is the same, no one gets naked for that.

[hunkadunka]

It's different because their pants are off, and they need to dry bums.

I suggested changing under a towel, but he doesn't think the girls would be told that, and I agree he has a point.

But, yes, changing under a towel is the pragmatic thing to do. I don't think school will be able to help, and will roll their eyes, or worse, stop supervising.