What's with all these transgender threads?!(631 Posts)
No less than 7 on my active threads?? Is it just me who in real life hasn't encountered any transgender people?? And coming from the professional background that I'm in, I see a pretty varied side of life
Am I missing out on something here??
The transphobia on mumsnet is abhorrent and I avoid anything trans related on this site as a result.
I am with you! For such a minority group of people they trend disproportionately.
Also the negative reaction to trans people on Mumsnet seems out of kilter with the rest of the population. I also work in a professional work place and wouldn’t bat an eyelid if I was working alongside a trans individual
I agree it seems to being blown up out of all proportion by people who are now calling themselves "PERFs".
In the big scheme of things, and with everything else going on in the world right now, I can u get worked up by the idea of someone with a penis using a lockable cubicle next to me.
Yes. There's a new aggressive bunch of trans rights activists who want the law changed to say that any man who says he's a woman is a woman. As in, no difference at all. He wouldn't have to do anything at all except sign a form. A lot of women are scared and worried about the implications of this on women's rights and safe spaces but they're being silenced with threats, assault and accusations of transphobia because they believe biological sex is an important distinction between men and women that can't be ignored to appease the feelings of a very small minority of men. mumsnet is one of the few places where debate on this subject is allowed to happen.
Totally agree. It seems to be mostly on the feminist section. It's awful. I understand this is an open forum but it feels at times a witch hunt against a minority group.
I cant get worked up by the idea of someone with a penis using a lockable cubicle next to me
Spot on. I hasten to add that the pearl clutchers shouting 'think of the children?!' over and over, are not affected by trans issues or encounter trans people in their daily lives. I work with a number of trans people, all of whom want to live their lives and use a toilet or a changing room that matches with how they are presenting to minimise the public humiliation they attract everywhere they go.
If there are any valid points being made, they’re lost in the frenzy.
An unbelievably powerful minority who have lobbied so well that lies are now enshrined in law (new passport with no link to old identity stating false sex) and has politicians and companies large and small running scared and willing to abrogate the rights of half the population to appease them.
The frenzy is not one-sided but outside of Mumsnet many are afraid to have any sort of honest discussion. With good reason. There is a 'frenzy' on Mumsnet to raise awareness, as only with the force of numbers will people have the confidence to actually speak up elsewhere. I'm not really seeing the persecuted minority stereotype anymore.
The frenzied mob will pile on in here in a couple of hours. They're not the type to wear or clutch pearls though. The describe people as "Penis-Owners".
I think I have only ever come across one trans person in my entire life I actually a found myself being very sympatheric with her. She had a very, very tough life.
I hasten to add that the pearl clutchers shouting 'think of the children?!' over and over, are not affected by trans issues or encounter trans people in their daily lives.
Tell that to the transwomen and transman that regularly posts on those threads and share the same concerns. Also the many with children and family members who are trans.
No one hate's transpeople and no one will bat an eyelid working next to one. What they object to is "self ID". Where all a man will have to do is fill out a form and he's a woman with access to women's spaces. Many articles have been posted with examples of this.
Recently, a man broke into people's bedrooms, put on teenage girls underwear and wanked into it. Now he's in prison and saying he's a woman and wants to be transferred. Imagine him among vulnerable women.
That's only one example.
No one hates trans. They hate that women's rights are being disregarded and put at risk.
Agreed. I find the hatred disturbing.
I live in a small village. Trans population - none, or none I know of. Like most of MN, this discourse seems to be very London-centric. That said, I understand why we need to resist things like biological males competing in women's sports, and all this cis and terf bollocks does my head in.
Althea then it might be worth looking at how it's coming across. Becaus not looks like out and out phobic behaviour. What you've said there makes sense but is not clear at all on any of the threads I've read.
I also work in a professional work place and wouldn’t bat an eyelid if I was working alongside a trans individual
You clearly haven't a clue about the issues if you think people are objecting to working with transgender people. Unless you are professional athlete in a team sport traditionally separated by sex, in which case, yes, we are objecting.
Witch hunt? Frenzy? If you took the time to read up on self id and the implications its already having, with biological men with penises intact popping up in women's sports, changing rooms, prisons and refuges perhaps you wouldn't be so glib and quick to accuse women of witch hunting. Self id is perfect for sexual predators to gain access to vulnerable women. There is NO way under the principle of self id to tell if someone is a genuine transwomen or not. A lot of companies and organisations are being bullied into accepting self id even though it's not the law. Yet.
We have sex segregated spaces for a reason.
I do agree with what is being said on this thread. The reason the majority of people who disagree don't go on the trans threads is because they get shouted down and told they're wrong without any debate (although they'll say they do welcome debate).
It's also interesting that there is a lot of talk about ensuring that they are completely anonymous on twitter. If what they're saying is ok and not hate speech why the anonymity?
I did see one tread with someone saying they set up a twitter account to argue the trans issue and got 4 retweets! Woah- big time then
I am completely sick and tired with the amount of threads, and general media coverage about transgender issues.
People should be free to live their lives as they wish, providing they’re not harming or interfering with anyone else, or doing anything Illegal, but I am fed up of all the debates about this particular small section of society, especially when it seems as though other people’s rights are being eroded in order to accommodate theirs. It’s just exploded all of a sudden.
I also cannot stand the constant talk of feminist issues, and hearing the word ‘feminism’ everywhere, never mind seeing the word, and related terms emblazoned across t shirts.
I’m all for equal rights, but at the moment so many of the attitudes and opinions seem very militant and extreme, that there’s just a constant nagging ‘noise’ being created. Because I’m a woman, and in my early 30’s, I feel a huge amount of pressure at the moment to have certain ‘feminist’ opinions on anything and everything, and very often my views do not reflect this.
In fact we do seem to be expected to have hardcore views on everything nowadays, as a balanced, central approach just will not do anymore - you have to be seen and heard being a loudmouth and waving your banner. Transgender, feminism, Brexit - everyone seems so angry and staunch on one side or the other on these issues, and if you’re not, then you’re made to feel as though you don’t care. If you’re view isn’t ‘lefty’ enough or falling slightly outside of the general consensus, then you are then labelled as a bigot or some kind of degenerate - because everyone seems to have to have a label these days.
‘I’m a vegan, I’m a feminist, I’m a remainer, I’m a leaver, I’m transgender, I’m a feminist....’ Snooze, it’s all so fucking tedious.
I’m wondering if it’s kind of like a trend for a lot of people, like going vegan or gluten free when they really don’t have to, and many are just jumping on the bandwagon. If so, I can’t wait for these ‘fashions’ to pass.
And yet you start another thread about trans. So not a goady fucker at all.
Men do not belong on women's refuges. If that doesn't concern you, you are a disgrace to your sex.
You are either a female or male, nobody 'assigns' you anything at birth. Biological fact is you either have male or female reproductive organs.
Infinitesimally small part of population might feel they should be the opposite sex and some decide to change it.
Fanfare around 'transgendering children' should be criminalised. Vulnerable and impressionable children are easy to manipulate and there are some very sick individuals who believe that having a child who is 'different' is so in vogue, one reads here about 2 year-olds who could be 'transgender'.
Give support to those who need it and leave the rest of the population out of it.
This is the biggest issue threatening women's rights. Vulnerable women in prisons, women who need refuge centres, women in sports, women's short lists. It's not about individual transwomen , or changing rooms or working with transwomen educate yourself.
Read up about self-ID,*OP*. 'Woman' is about to be erased as a protected characteristic. This is not about toilets.
It's not about individual transgender people.
It's about a possible change in legislation which would enable people to change their sex (officially, not necessarily physically) with much less effort than before. The potential effects on women's safety haven't been thought through and there's great hostility towards discussing them.
It's also about a huge cultural shift amonst transactivist groups, almost entirely based on trans women's identity and rights, which has only really become apparent over the past year (I mean apparent to people like me, who aren't closely associated with any kind of feminist activism or gender politics), and which is misogynistic, threatening, cultish, and trying to bully everyone into seeing ideology as fact.
What do you think a trans woman is? I'd define them as people born male who wish/need to live as women, and who may or may not undergo hormonal or surgical procedures. I've never felt the need to point that out on an individual basis (which would be impolite and disrespectful), but that is the factual truth.
But now it's abusive to say that, even when we're talking about whether trans women should be in women's prisons, or women's refuges, or on all-women shortlists, women's sports, etc. Trans women ARE women. No debate. They're not women because they have female bodies; their bodies are female because they tell us they're women. Some women have long hair, some women have small feet, some women have a penis, some women have big breasts.
It's transphobic to say: no, having a penis and XY chromasomes and male physiology means you're male. You can call yourself by any name, wear whatever you like, sleep with any consenting partners and ally yourself to any gender role... I will respect all of that. But don't bully me into pretending alternative facts are true, and don't aggressively try to enter female-only spaces, (which exist because there are significant physical differences between men and women), and don't try to shout down women when they talk about their bodies. The final irony of the trans women transactivism lobby is that they're acting with cast-iron male entitlement.
I've seen no hatred of trans people on Mumsnet - and quite a few trans posters. But there is alarm at the bunch of activists trying to remonte the rights of women to safe spaces and the very meaning of our identity. Not to mention the rights of lesbians to choose not to have sex with people with penises.
Like the OP I don't know any trans people in real life, rather wish I did! And would have no problem at all working with them.
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