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Calling all Secondary School Teachers - AIBU to feel something should have been done?

(73 Posts)
Aggrieved Tue 13-Feb-18 22:28:18

So say you had a child come into your school in Yr 7 with levels of 2s/3s in their Yr 6 SATS who was shortly afterwards diagnosed with a borderline learning disability equating to them having the mental age of a 6 year old at almost 12, and behavioural issues to match that, what would you expect from them and what would be put in place at your school?

If they didn't have an EHCP, work wasn't differentiated (as if they did that for them, everyone would want it), they got several detentions every week (screamed at by form tutor for getting the highest in the class), suffered constant name calling and mocking from classmates as they were obviously 'different', and the only support was basically a 'worry box' in the SENCO's office, what would you expect the outcome to be by the end of Yr10? Bearing in mind that their levels at the end of Yr10 were the same as their SATS levels at Yr 6?

What could have been put in place at a mainstream academy and AIBU to feel my child was massively failed?

Aggrieved Tue 13-Feb-18 22:34:52

Bumpity bump.

ChocFudgeLover Tue 13-Feb-18 22:50:50

I can't answer a lot of that but yes your child has been massively failed. Work should always be differentiated afaik.

pieceofpurplesky Tue 13-Feb-18 22:54:41

Work should be differentiated in every class. Why no EHCP!

TheSnowFairy Tue 13-Feb-18 22:57:55

Why no EHCP? Sounds like the school has terrible pastoral care and is purely interested in results - not great for your DS.

AlexanderHamilton Tue 13-Feb-18 23:01:40

It’s incredibly difficult to get an EHCP since the changes & the school have tonshow that they have put all reasonless measures in place to support the child.

The Op’s School havnt done that.

I can only speak for dh’s school but core subjects are streamed with the bottom set being very small (5-6 children) & work differentiated. From Year 10 there is the option to do a work skills/life skills course plus literacy/numeracy in place of two GCSE’s. There is a flexi learning area where children unable to cope in the classroom are allowed to work under the direction of the SENCO/support staff.

Parents of all children with Sen (whether low or high ability) are invited to a yearly coffee morning where they can meet relevant staff & there are regular meetings.

AlexanderHamilton Tue 13-Feb-18 23:02:35

That should read ds’s school not dh’s (though dh is an FE/HE teacher. )

iamafraidofvirginiawolves3cats Tue 13-Feb-18 23:10:55

I would ask how the child managed to spend years in Primary school without being given an EHCP. I would ask the child’s parents what they had done to support the child.
All teachers are expected to differentiate.
SENCO should have worked with parents
No EHCP should have been challenged
A special adapted curriculum or special school option should have been considered.

Aggrieved Tue 13-Feb-18 23:33:26

School said it would be easier for me to apply for an EHCP as recommended by paediatrician as they were 'busy'. EHCP assessment was refused as levels were not low enough and school had not shown what support was being given. I was also told an EHCP wouldn't make any difference. Reapplied in Yr9 as school was suggesting a move to a pupil referral unit due to social interactions with peers after threat of permanent exclusion.

Finally granted in Yr10 on appeal. Refused initially for same reasons as first refusal.

Could not access a Special school as no EHCP. Finally moved in Yr11 but too late and behavior issues too much to cope with.

Child now has no school.

Aggrieved Tue 13-Feb-18 23:36:04

Some times I wonder if I was expecting too much and how I could have handled it differently.

Font get me started on the Primary school, I was pushing for an assessment due to low attainment and behaviour from Yr2.

Aggrieved Tue 13-Feb-18 23:37:43


Haskell Tue 13-Feb-18 23:44:50

I'm afraid that simply gaining 2/3s in KS2 tests really wouldn't get an EHCP round here!
Even a learning disability being identified likely wouldn't either.
Are they Y11 now? Were the Y10 levels 2s and 3s under the new GCSE system? As that isn't the same "2" and "3" as the KS2 outcomes.

I am not sure why a school wouldn't differentiate though. We don't expect our children coming in on 2s to manage the same work as those that got 6s, that's just madness.

littletinyme1 Wed 14-Feb-18 09:44:11

Provision for any SEN is putiful in this country. I am sorry you and he have been let down.

Knowitall69 Wed 14-Feb-18 19:39:33

What eaxctly is a "borderline learning disability?"

Thequeenisdeadboys Wed 14-Feb-18 19:46:08

Contact local LEA and keep on and on and on until something is done. Keep on at school too to back you up. This is in no way acceptable.

Calvinlookingforhobbs Wed 14-Feb-18 20:07:20

What are the timeframes here? And is mainstream schooling the best place for your D.C.? They’ve clearly failed or been unable to accommodate him.

Knowitall69 Wed 14-Feb-18 20:11:24

Again... What EXACTLY is a "borderline learning disability?"

Also, are you saying that your child is now in Year 11 and has NO school?

Aggrieved Wed 14-Feb-18 20:54:38

Knowitall DC was diagnosed as having an IQ of 70. A learning disability is classed at 69 or less so paediatrician classed him as 'borderline'.

Yes DC is Yr11 with no school since December. School (SEN) said his placement wasn't appropriate so LEA were supposed to find him another one. I did not accept the alternative school they offered as it is an SEMH school and DC would be eaten alive.

Now having to look at residential schools.

BoneyBackJefferson Wed 14-Feb-18 21:03:20

As far as I know schools (in England) can't just stop a child going there.
Was it offered as a managed move instead of a permanent exclusion?

If it this is the case there are systems that are in place that they have to go through, HT to governors to the LEA. if they haven't followed the procedures then you should be able to appeal through the school etc.
(but I am not sure why you would if the school has been such a let down).

The SN board on here will be able to give you more information about what you can do. here

Notevilstepmother Wed 14-Feb-18 21:10:46

So, you didn’t want them to send him to the PRU and you think he’d be eaten alive at the SEMH school?

I’m confused. Is his behaviour an issue or not? What makes you think the SEMH school is so bad and unsuitable?

IQ of 70 isn’t a special case. It’s at the lower end of normal. Similarly if he could get Level 2 and 3 at primary school, lower end of normal. It’s not a special need as such. An average mainstream comprehensive will have several children with IQ in the 60s and 70s.

More useful to know would be his current and his year 7 reading age if you know those.

How are his social skills?

Knowitall69 Wed 14-Feb-18 21:13:50

So..... He was permanently excluded?

AmazingGrace16 Wed 14-Feb-18 21:22:54

It was the management of the previous school that has let your child down not necessarily individual teachers.

Can I clarify-he currently doesn't have an EHCP but is going into SEMH provision?

Is home schooling an option?

You do know you are able to apply for an EHCP it doesn't have to be the school?

MsAwesomeDragon Wed 14-Feb-18 21:25:58

At my school he would have been placed in a small group for most lessons (fewer than 10 in the group and a TA in most subject). The work would be differentiated to the level of the individuals within that group (he'd probably be about the middle/top of our nurture group, ).

We expect our nurture group pupils to gain some GCSEs but not many, and grades 1-3. Obviously we aim as high as we possibly can, but the reality is that often they just can't retain the volume of content to gain a higher grade than that. Behaviour issues within our nurture groups is often challenging, but is dealt with by support rather than punishment as often as possible, but obviously finances mean that support isn't always available. We (and by we I mean the amazing learning support team) run homework clubs, social skills groups, life skills training, board games clubs, reading groups with hot chocolate and bean bags (as well as age appropriate but very easy reading books), etc. He would have been encouraged to join as many of these as feasible, but not forced to join them.

MaisyPops Wed 14-Feb-18 21:33:23

Nothing you've said would make me think a child would get an ECHP.
They sound like the type of profile of some students I teach this year. Lower, but not horrendous and absolutely teachable.

When you say levels are the same as SATS in GCSE, I'm assuming you mean they are getting grades 2/3 at GCSE level which is totally different to SATS.

Just speaking for my subject, students have to:
Read a fiction text, answer 4 questions and then do a piece of original writing in 1h45 mins.
Read 2 non fiction texts (1 modern, 1 19th c), answer 4 questions and do a non fiction piece of writing in 1h45 mins
Write 2 essays on literary set texts in closed book conditions 1 h 45 mins
Write an essay on a modern text, comparative essay on 15 poems (both closed book) and 2 unseen poetry responses in 2h15mins.

A child coming in at level 2/3 at KS2 would find that difficult. I would expect grade 2/3 part way through Year 10 with a view to securing a 3 by the end of y10, 4 in Y11 and a 5 if possible with careful exam technique.

Just offering another view.

youarenotkiddingme Wed 14-Feb-18 21:35:35

He's the school have massively failed him.

My ds had similar issues at mainstream academy. They denied need and therefore didn't meet need which led to further problems.

We secured an EHCP despite not having evidence of school putting in any interventions (won a refusal to assess tribunal) - because I could evidence juniors provided 15.5 hrs a week and he made progress under this.

He's now in a MS state school and thriving. I didn't think MS would be right for him and know if we hadn't been lucky enough to win the fight he'd have ended up too ill to attend school and would have been deemed needing an SEMH school - and would have been eaten alive.

Have you looked at MLD schools locally? In my LA MLD schools are for children with lower IQ and therefore working globally 2-4 years below age expectations.

Have you also asked about tutors? Once a child has been out of education for 15 days then the la should start this. The EWo and/or inclusion team should be able to advise on this. Also look at college courses as some start at 14 and he may suit a vocational course better?

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