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To think to say wearing the hijab brings you 'respect' and 'security'.

(305 Posts)
Eltonjohnssyrup Thu 08-Feb-18 08:09:23

Just to start off - this is not a 'ban the burka' thread. I respect the right of all women to wear exactly what they want be that a burka, a bivouac, a hijab, short shorts or a bikini.

It was World Hijab Day yesterday. An event which was promoted by government agencies including the Home Office.

The organisation promoting this event has claimed that the hijab brings you 'liberation'. I'm fine with that. I can see how it would feel liberating not to have to worry about bad hair days or styling every day. And feeling liberated is a personal thing. One woman might feel liberated wearing a full length skirt and long sleeves, one might feel liberated in a bodycon dress and bikini.

But then they went on to say that the hijab brings you 'respect and security'. I feel really uncomfortable about this. It implies that there is a type of respect which women who do not wear the hijab are unworthy of. That showing our hair makes us unworthy of automatic respect.

And 'security', security from what? Harassment? Rape? Terror attacks? This sort of language is moving the responsibility for women's security onto women by saying 'wear this and you'll be secure'. In other words, don't wear it and you're taking risks, asking for it, sending out a signal it is okay to grope or harrass you.

This makes me really uncomfortable, especially in the era of me too. AIBU to think that this campaign should be moderating it's language to avoid tarring those who don't wear it with negative associations? And that the government and Home Office shouldn't be endorsing an organisation that uses it? It's not sending a message of 'women are free to wear what they like' and instead is sending a message that if women want to safe and respected they must cover up.

bluepears Mon 12-Feb-18 04:58:48

Catholic women used to cover their head in church TIL the change (enlightenment) came in the 1980’s. Many Christian nuns have dispensed with the veil now.
Until the 20th century most women in the West wore head coverings (indeed had long hair as a rule) until work outside the home became normal.
Women who are Orthodox Christians and Jews still have their heads covered (the latter often choosing to wear wigs instead of hats.
It’s be no means an exclusive Muslim ‘thing’.
orthodox Christians only cover their heads at church yes it is a muslim sense that only Muslim women have head coverings outside of their place of worship

pallisers Mon 12-Feb-18 02:54:44

Nuns are covered....

Are you visiting us from the 1940s?

The vanishingly few remaining nuns dress just like any sensible woman does.

MistressDeeCee Mon 12-Feb-18 02:50:22

I agree, it doesn't. But for women who do wear it (willingly) and feel it does bring them respect and security - it's their prerogative. I think there's a propensity to aim to talk for and over women who make cultural choices outside the western norm. Whilst I don't agree with it, I don't actually think the western way is better. It's just different.

Easier to get away from a man if you need to, more opportunities outside the home - but the Relationships board is choc full of women in outstandingly awful situations. So I'm inclined to feel whether you wear the Hijab or not is a moot point nowadays in terms of respect etc or not.

Turkkadin Mon 12-Feb-18 01:09:19

My son and daughter are half Turkish. To help them keep up with learning their fathers language we recently sent them to Saturday morning lessons at our local central mosque.
On arriving at the lesson my 13 year old son and 12 year old daughter were told they were required to study separately. Boys in one room taught by a male teacher and girls in another room taught by his wife.
The female teacher came out to meet my daughter dressed in a full black head to toe burkha. We were shocked at seeing her dressed like this and my daughter was actually frightened and didn't want to be separated from her brother. We voiced our concerns and were assured that the teacher would lower her face veil when all men had left the room and she was only with females. Despite wearing such radical clothing the teacher was pleasant and kind and a good teacher.
Aswell as lessons in the Turkish language, all the female students were subjected to this lady's interpretation of how a good female Muslim should behave. My daughter was told not to look at or smile at boys. To keep her eyes lowered around men and not to laugh loudly and act in an animated way outside the home.
The lovely neighbouring Pakistani community would bring wonderful gifts of hot food into the mosque on a Saturday for any Muslim people to come and enjoy. It was freely offered and very generous. The boys in my sons group were always invited first to take whatever of the food they wanted. The girls were expected to take what was left. My daughter wasn't impressed! They don't attend these lessons anymore.

Tapandgo Sun 11-Feb-18 23:28:48

Here is the solution ~ glasses that deliberately blur the vision of men so that they don’t have to look at what they consider ‘immodest’ attire. The nearest thing to a male burka I’ve heard about yet.

Brilliant ~ the men that have the problem have to solve it themselves. Then women can go about their business dressed as they like 👏👏👏

hmmwhatatodo Sun 11-Feb-18 23:21:12

Tulips, I see plenty of children going to school (esp teenagers) without proper warm clothing in winter. Girls out on evenings wearing very little in freezing weather. Each to their own.

borderline11 Sun 11-Feb-18 23:17:29

You know other religions ask women to cover too. Nuns are covered
You mean the Roman Catholic religion? they aren't asking women to be covered confused, nuns aren't representative of catholic females.

Dragongirl10 Sun 11-Feb-18 22:52:57

It is wrong that Muslim men or ANY man thinks that wearing a certain piece of clothing makes that woman more pious and not to be leered at in a sexual way....and infers that the opposite is true of a woman not wearing the headscarf....

ALL women regardless of their preferred dress should be safe and respected.

It is back to the age old issue, still evident, that these 'male' rules and attitudes dictate to women how they are perceived.....women need to challenge all men on these attitudes constantly and loudly or it will never change.

TulipsInAJug Sun 11-Feb-18 22:47:48

In Berlin in the summer I saw a woman wearing a full-length hijab walking along the street. She must have been sweltering. She stopped at a water fountain and cupped her hands under the water and dowsed herself (any parts which weren't covered, ie her face) in water. She was so hot and bothered, I felt sorry for her.

There were loads of young women wearing the niquab and hijab in Berlin, including several white women who looked German. They all hung out together at the playparks, with their kids. I think headcovering is a way for young Muslim women to feel part of a community, it gives them an identity. I also think it's a horrible symbol of oppression and should not, here in the West, be allowed to become an accepted virtue-signalling rhetoric of 'respect' and 'security'.

bluepears Sun 11-Feb-18 22:38:43

the quran does not mention the word hijab or tell women to cover their heads

crunchymint Sun 11-Feb-18 22:35:23

Newspapers tend to use stock photos.

Tapandgo Sun 11-Feb-18 22:31:46

It did say it was the Daily Express!

hmmwhatatodo Sun 11-Feb-18 22:20:26

The thing is, tapandgo, when you read that articles and ones linked to it, or even search Blackburn bites all you get is pictures of ladies wearing black headscarves and niqab and abayas. Where are all the photos of these popular burkas in Blackburn? Why didn’t he show a picture of te one that is a big seller in the shop? Why can’t they just say niqab is on the increase or modest women’s Islamicwear?

BartholinsSister Sun 11-Feb-18 22:07:39

There seems to be more and more porn featuring women wearing hijab, niqab and the burkha. Has it become some kind of fetish thing nowadays?

Tapandgo Sun 11-Feb-18 22:01:17

Yes ~ all groups where men make the rules!

crunchymint Sun 11-Feb-18 21:58:28

Yes and it is based on oppressing women in Orthodox Christianity and Judaism as well.

Tapandgo Sun 11-Feb-18 21:50:07

Catholic women used to cover their head in church TIL the change (enlightenment) came in the 1980’s. Many Christian nuns have dispensed with the veil now.
Until the 20th century most women in the West wore head coverings (indeed had long hair as a rule) until work outside the home became normal.
Women who are Orthodox Christians and Jews still have their heads covered (the latter often choosing to wear wigs instead of hats.
It’s be no means an exclusive Muslim ‘thing’.

merville Sun 11-Feb-18 21:47:49

Nuns (and monks) are a special religious order/group whose entire life is devoted to religion and who often cloister themselves away from the world; the catholic church does not require women in general to cover up. They have the same rules for appropriate dress for inside churches for men & women ie shoulders, upper legs etc. covereed

crunchymint Sun 11-Feb-18 21:44:41

I think the catholic church is evil, but no it is not the same.

MorganKitten Sun 11-Feb-18 21:38:43

You know other religions ask women to cover too. Nuns are covered....

Tapandgo Sun 11-Feb-18 21:31:04

January 2017
Morocco has reportedly banned the sale and production of the burka in what appears to be the latest stage of the kingdom's crackdown on Islamic extremism.Letters announcing the ban were sent out to market vendors earlier this week, with businessmen given just 48 hours to get rid of their stock.
“We have taken the step of completely banning the import, manufacture and marketing of this garment in all the cities and towns of the kingdom," a senior Moroccan government official told local news website le360.

Maybe why we in the UK are importing them to sell on?

Tapandgo Sun 11-Feb-18 21:19:54

*Despite most muslims believing there is no requirement in the Koran for women to wear the burka, or the slightly less overwhelming niqab, sales are up and the prevalence of fully-covered women is increasing. can reveal shopkeepers in Blackburn, the British town with the third highest Muslim population, are enjoying a boom in sales.The burka is the most concealing of all Islamic dress incorporating a usually black one-piece garment which covers the face and body with a mesh covering the wearer's eyes. It is designed to effectively dehumanise the wearer in the interests of modesty by disguising all of her physical elements.The niqab is usually a veil worn in conjunction with a headscarf to create a similar effect to the burka.
In the Islamic faith both garments are worn as an assertion of religious and cultural identity. But, while their popularity in many Middle Eastern countries is on the wane the number of women wearing burkas and niqabs on the streets of British northern towns and cities and parts of London is increasing.A snap survey carried out by in the Lancashire town of Blackburn, where 11 per cent of the population is Islamic, found around 30 per cent of muslim women completely covered their faces.Exact figures are hard to establish because many burkas are sold door-to-door, but Nadeem Siddiqui who runs the Hijab Centre in Blackburn and is the town’s biggest burka supplier said: “I'm selling more burkas and niqabs than I used to, no question.
“I used to sell one or two burkas a month, now I sell about that in a week, so sales are clearly up.”He blamed the US reaction to the September 11th attacks for increased sales and said: “The rise of the burka and the veil all stems from that.”*

Apologies ~ from The Express! But as women in some Islamic countries get to see the light (literally), some more advantaged women in the west chose to put themselves in the dark.

MissEliza Sun 11-Feb-18 21:11:46

Crunchy that's the spirit it should have been done in.

Tapandgo Sun 11-Feb-18 21:10:22

Seems only 1 colour was available in Afghanistan (sales dropped rapidly as Taliban rule declined)

Tapandgo Sun 11-Feb-18 21:04:25

No never.
I have seen the black one though more than once, but always in heavy (gabardine?) material. Seen it worn with gloves and flimsy shoes ~ climatically odd.
Just odd the seller imports it into the UK ~ to sell to (?)

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