AIBU to ask why you for Brexit?

[BillySmut56]

I'm politically neautral on Brexit, it's a complicated issue, but I'm interested in the consequences that are coming out now. If you voted for Brexit, what were your reasons?

[BillySmut56]

Oh no! Mega typo in the title

That's supposed to say: AIBU to ask why you voted for Brexit?

[Mycatisahacker]

Come on op we all know it’s about immigration.

[Rebeccaslicker]

I know a few financial professionals who voted for Brexit. I don't agree with them in the least, but the two main reasons were:

• they honestly think we'll get better trade deals outside the EU; and
  

• they think the EU is corrupt, full of non elected policiticians on a gravy train, and that it's made life miserable for people in the poorer parts of Europe, e.g. Greece, southern Italy
  

• they think it will struggle with the debts of some member states and that we'll be glad we were out of it when it collapses financially
  

My face:

But at least it's reasons other than "I don't like foreigners, me" !

[Sppapp]

This is a question Theresa May should ask the people over and over again to make sure she gets it right.

As it is going now, we are Brexit-ing but in such a soft way that nothing will really change. And I am sure that is not what the Brexiteers wanted.

If the people voted for Brexit to stop immigration - she needs to make sure free movement is stopped.

If people voted for Brexit to end trade with Europe - she needs to make sure this is stopped.

If people voted for Brexit due to EU human right laws - she needs to make sure Britain gets away from the European Courts.


However what she is doing now is just creating the Brexit she wants, without going back to the people asking them what they really want from Brexit.

I don't think a soft Brexit (or a Brexit only by name) is what anyone wants.

And I am saying this as a European living in the UK, and opposed to Brexit for obvious reasons.

[BMW6]

OP I suggest you pop over to the EU Referendum section in Other Topics where there a thousands of posts

[Mycatisahacker]

I agree with you sppapp and I think the commens will reject any deal as it will b too hard for labour and too soft for the tories and the government will fall.

God knows what will happen then after any election.

[FlyTipper]

My family voted out because, in no particular order,:

• FoM had become too much
• Romanians were claiming benefits
• the Turks were about to invade

When questioned about the economic impact they were variously:

• shoulder shrug
• disbelieving (fearmongering)

I think it is wrong to assert people didn't vote to make themselves poorer. They were told Brexit would have a negative consequence but they chose to take that risk. It means that Brexit for the majority who voted for it was a vote against FoM.

Some politicians put it accurately recently: people were promised the SM and end of FoM. Yes, this in a nutshell.

[EggsonHeads]

I was very much on the fence but in then end I voted to leave. I don't see the European Union lasting in its current form (the events of 2014/2015/2016 made that very clear) and I am worried that, due to the way the process of reform has been set up, it won't make the necessary adjustments to survive. Britain will be fine out of the EU and I would much rather not be dragged through an EU collapse. There was also an emotional response to the mishandling of the kifrant crisis on my part. I'm Australian and lived there many years so I pretty accustomed to feeling ashamed of how my government/people but the way the EU behaved was beyond shame. I was disgusted. Germany 'opens its doors' to refugees on the proviso that they get to Germany. Essentially, in an attempt to prove that they are no longer racist the German government knowingly incited men, women and, children to watery deaths but who cares right? They're not Germans! Then when the survivors reached southern EU states Germany basically said not ourvproblem guys, we caused it but we're not really going to do anything to fix it (which seems typical of the attitude that wealthier EU nations hold towards their weaker counterparts). But most despicable of all. Instead of calling the German governments actions what they were, that us to say basically murder, British people started falling over themselves in order to be the first one to say how ashamed they were that our government wasn't encouraging people to their deaths. In all that time I only read one article calling out the German government for not moving their border for asylum purposes to turkey pointing out that the German promosecwas an empty one designed to garner positive publicity at the cost of those who died on perilous sea crossings and southern states that were overwhelmed by an influx that they had little support to cope with. Obviously I didn't vote on emotional grounds but I wasn't exactly affectionate towards the EU andnot in the mood to hedge my bets on its long term survival.

[Onlyoldontheoutside]

I voted because the EU is corrupt,the books have never been balanced.Also don't want to join a federal Europe.There are problems looming with Greece,Portugal,Italy and Spain facing financial issues.
Germany and France don't want us to leave because we pay 12%of the entire budget,that will leave a hole.
I also think we will do OK out,the EU sell so much to us.
I was not however expecting all our MPs turning into a squabbling bunch of toddlers .I wish they would join together and get the best deal that we can.
My choices have nothing to do with immigration.I work in the NHS and although some non staff are from the EU the majority are from non EU countries and have had few problems working and living here.
OK,hard hat on to be called thick,racist and all the other things that those who don't agree with reasons.Insulting me with not change my mind but am happy to listen to civil reasoning.
This process is not reversible but the British are so good at talking something down,look at all the rubbish talked about the dome before it became the O2 .

[ShackUp]

the EU is corrupt

Evidence, please? And what's the alternative?

[LaurieMarlow]

This is a question Theresa May should ask the people over and over again to make sure she gets it right.

Except that for many people I suspect the EU was fairly incidental.

When they voted leave they voted for change from the status quo or they voted to make their lives better, or they voted to return to some mythical version of the past, or they voted to feel more in control of their lives and where they're going (that 'take back control' slogan was genius).

Leaving the EU isn't going to deliver on any of those things, so it doesn't matter what Theresa does, she won't give the people what they want.

Even at a party level, Cameron called the referendum in the first place to shut up the Eurosceptics. Gove/Johnson campaigned for leave to piss Cameron off and strengthen their position against him. David Davies et all don't like being bossed around by Johnny Foreigner.

Pretty much no one gave much (realistic) thought to the kind of relationship they wanted to forge with Europe and the rest of the world post EU.

No wonder negotiations are a total mess, because no-one actually knows what the people or the politicians want out of this. While I've no great love for May, she's been set the world's most impossible task.

[FlyTipper]

Pretty much no one gave much (realistic) thought to the kind of relationship they wanted to forge with Europe and the rest of the world post EU. In fact what was criminal is the Leave lot AVOIDED answering all questions on the future relationship. It was one the big Remainer points: 'but what's the plan?". In a complete abdication of responsibility, and even now they will not admit to it, Leavers allowed voters to think leave meant any and all things.

[SilverySurfer]

I voted Leave because I truly believe that it will ultimately be the best thing for this country. I also happen to think that the EU will likely collapse but won't put a timescale on it.

I didn't vote Leave because Farage said I should, nor for the removal of EU residents or immigrants, nor did I believe the NHS would get millions of pounds extra every day, nor for any of the reasons Remainers mostly assume.

I did a huge amount of research, both for and against. Although I had patiently waited for many years to be given the opportunity to vote Leave I still thought it was important to try to understand the remainers' point of view.

Personally I don't want the UK run by unelected, unaccountable gravy train politicians in Brussels; I want our Government to pass laws that are best for the country and its people.

We need border controls, not to keep everyone out but to have the choice about who to allow in. EU people currently here who work and contribute should be allowed to remain and we should invite others to come here if they have the skills we need. However, I think those currently in jail and their families, should be returned whence they came at the end of their sentence. I agree with the Government paying millions of aid to Syrian camps and bringing some of the families from the camps here. I disagree with opening the borders to the mostly young, male economic migrants from a variety of countries who are trying to get into the country.

Before the EU collapses I believe they will try to forge closer union, among other things possibly the creation of an EU Army with which I disagree.

Allowing countries like Greece to join the EU despite its perilous financial situation at the time has resulted in a disaster for Greece.

Several EU countries have high unemployment and are in economic difficulty. I don't want the UK paying for that.

I want us to regain control of our fishing waters.

HTH

[Rebeccaslicker]

You're challenging the wrong person, shackup. I clearly said I didn't agree with it!! They think the politicians are more interested in their great experiment of a united Europe and their salaries than the individuals living there, I think.

[BillySmut56]

Oh, sorry, I didn't know there was a politics section. I don't use this very often. Thanks

[LaurieMarlow]

That's very interesting Silvery and very coherent.

What kind of relationship did you think we should have with the EU on leaving?

[SilverySurfer]

LaurieMarlow
That's very interesting Silvery and very coherent.

What kind of relationship did you think we should have with the EU on leaving?

Thank you, I have replied to countless Brexit threads on here, even before the Referendum took place and almost without exception the responses from Remainers to my posts were along the lines of: you are racist, xenophobic, thick, stupid, uneducated - you get get the message - so your polite post comes as a bit of a shock

I don't think we should join the European Economic Area because we would still have to pay into the EU budget, implement Brussels regulations, and accept free movement of workers.

I would have thought some sort of free trade deal which would enable continuation of trade between the UK and the EU without us being tied by EU rules and regulations would be beneficial for both sides. I'm pretty sure both Germany and France, for example, will want to ensure exports of their cars, wine, cheese etc to the UK will continue and vice versa. Then the UK should be free to make trade deals with any non-EU countries as they wish.

The EU obviously needs our financial contribution to continue for a period and I wouldn't be opposed to that as part of our extraction process but would like to see an end date agreed.

It will take a few years but I would expect our Government to work hard at replacing laws currently laid down by the The European Court of Justice.

I understand Theresa May has said there will not be a hard border between Republic of Ireland and NI which I'm sure is what both sides wanted to hear but I wonder if that may be an issue that will need to be reconsidered in the future, I've no idea how potential mass migration would be dealt with through that border. It's a powder keg waiting to be lit to be honest.

I would be interested to hear your views, whether Leave or Remain.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

I also happen to think that the EU will likely collapse but won't put a timescale on it.

Anytime in the next 1000 years eh?

I didn't vote Leave because Farage said I should, nor for the removal of EU residents or immigrants, nor did I believe the NHS would get millions of pounds extra every day, nor for any of the reasons Remainers mostly assume.

Millions did believe lies though. You were supporting a campaign that openly told mistruths.

I did a huge amount of research, both for and against. Although I had patiently waited for many years to be given the opportunity to vote Leave I still thought it was important to try to understand the remainers' point of view.

Shame you didnt research Cambridge Analytica and Legatum.

Personally I don't want the UK run by unelected, unaccountable gravy train politicians in Brussels; I want our Government to pass laws that are best for the country and its people.

It isn't unelected. UK parliament has always been sovereign.

I disagree with opening the borders to the mostly young, male economic migrants from a variety of countries who are trying to get into the country.

The UK can control immigration more tightly. It chose not to. Certain sectors are reliant of foreign labour

Before the EU collapses I believe they will try to forge closer union, among other things possibly the creation of an EU Army with which I disagree.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/if-you-re-voting-for-brexit-because-you-think-british-troops-will-be-called-up-to-an-eu-army-you-ve-a7024221.html

I want us to regain control of our fishing waters

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/03/eu-fishing-boats-can-still-operate-in-uk-waters-after-brexit-says-gove

[Theworldisfullofidiots]

Oh God the same old myths...

I suggest people look at the rigour of how the EU Audit their books compared to the rigour of how the UK does it

[bringinthespring]

Overcrowding.

[FlyTipper]

Telling leavers the facts, Ghost, won't change anyone's position. I guess Silvery has heard all you've posted, and more, to counteract her world view. But she still holds it. In the end, we all have to respect a person's PoV even though it might not be rational to us.

I thought the OP's question interesting: what do you hope to get out of Brexit. Interesting that Silvery sees the NI border a major issue. Also that she expects a respectable trade deal. She doesn't represent all leave voters, it's just one opinion. It's a question I shall ask more Leavers. IMO I don't think anyone is ready to accept that what they want won't be what they get. Very few outside the dedicated circles understand the economic model behind Brexit - Minford's ultra-liberalism that threatens to revolutionise the UK even more than Thatcher's reforms. If the people truly understood THAT, I'm sure Remain would have won.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

I'm pretty sure both Germany and France, for example, will want to ensure exports of their cars, wine, cheese etc to the UK will continue and vice versa.

Jaguar Landrover have cut production at their Halewood plant citing Brexit. Given Brexit is going to make the country poorer I wouldn't worry about the importation of high end cars too much.

It will take a few years but I would expect our Government to work hard at replacing laws currently laid down by the The European Court of Justice.

Does it look as if the government is working hard? They did nothing for the first 18 months and are now dismissing their own Brexit reports? What is the point in having a department for leaving the Eu if you just dismiss reportS by your civil servants? How much is this costing the tax payer?

I understand Theresa May has said there will not be a hard border between Republic of Ireland and NI which I'm sure is what both sides wanted to hear but I wonder if that may be an issue that will need to be reconsidered in the future, I've no idea how potential mass migration would be dealt with through that border. It's a powder keg waiting to be lit to be honest.

There won't be a hard border which completely undermines the key tenet of Brexit - controlling borders. The powder key was lit by the leave vote that risked the GFA.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

Telling leavers the facts, Ghost, won't change anyone's position. I guess Silvery has heard all you've posted, and more, to counteract her world view. But she still holds it. In the end, we all have to respect a person's PoV even though it might not be rational to us.

I don't "respect" people for believing lies, particularly when they are presented with facts on numerous occasions. I don't respect people for believing lies when it will have such a negative effect on the UK.

[Rebeccaslicker]

Maybe if Remainers had respected the views of others a bit more, we'd have had a different result?

I voted remain (along with almost everyone else in the City!), but my goodness the way Leavers were talked about and to - what a great way to create divisiveness. Don't assume anyone has any actual reasons; don't listen to them; just put them down and call them ill-informed and racist. That sort of attitude only entrenched views, I fear.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

I voted remain (along with almost everyone else in the City!), but my goodness the way Leavers were talked about and to - what a great way to create divisiveness. Don't assume anyone has any actual reasons; don't listen to them; just put them down and call them ill-informed and racist. That sort of attitude only entrenched views, I fear.

The divisiveness was created with 40 years of anti EU rhetoric in the press, that mocked EU politicians, vilified EU migrants etc. Its quite clear that there are very few leave opinions that haven't been debunked. In the aftermath of the referendum race hate crimes rose 44%, prominent remainers received rape and death threats and high court judges were denounced as enemies of the people.