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Labour has totally lost the plot wit Identity Politics?

(155 Posts)
bambambini Thu 11-Jan-18 21:23:47

Labour Youth are advertising posts and have positions ring marked for “self identifying women only” to encourage more women into politics. Just seems a really strange way of describing women and actually means that all the posts could go males instead of females (can’t really use women any more). Can’t wrap my mind round how identity politics has become so prolific and taking priority or biology. The future doesn’t seem to have much place for females. Labout Woman’s officer Lily Madigan on it.?I’d like to see what Labour women think of this.

ferntwist Thu 11-Jan-18 21:26:14

YANBU. This is insulting to women. How on earth does this help more of us get into politics?

FastandLoose Thu 11-Jan-18 21:28:09

Yep. Plot lost.

LyraPotter Thu 11-Jan-18 21:30:55

It's just worded that way so that transwomen aren't excluded. There's no need for frantic pearl-clutching.

titchy Thu 11-Jan-18 21:31:04

How old do you have to be? Surely no 'youth' is going to identify as an adult (woman = adult). Maybe they should self identify as a girl then Stephoknee could apply...?

titchy Thu 11-Jan-18 21:32:39

Well no Lyra if you look at that Twitter a lot of feminists don't 'identify' as women - they ARE women. Lily kindly clarifies that this will exclude them.

LemonSqueezy0 Thu 11-Jan-18 21:34:16

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3096513-to-let-you-know-how-men-use-the-Equality-Act-to-undermine-womens-spaces

Op - this is an interesting thread on this

ferntwist Thu 11-Jan-18 21:35:26

Lyra it’s supposed to encourage more women into political as less than 1 in 3 of our MPs are female. Transwomen were born and raised as men and so should be excluded from a scheme to help women.

LyraPotter Thu 11-Jan-18 21:35:56

@titchy I don't understand the point you're trying to make?

saltandvinegarcrisps1 Thu 11-Jan-18 21:36:39

YANBU. It does my (real) tits in.

ferntwist Thu 11-Jan-18 21:37:42

Ask yourself, if 50% of MPs were men and 50% were transwomen, would you feel women had made big gains in representation? No. Neither would I. Wake up. We’re being pushed out of our own programmes. This is a backlash against feminism.

LyraPotter Thu 11-Jan-18 21:37:50

@ferntwist transwomen are women. Not all women have the same experiences - you might find you have a lot more in common with a transwoman from a similar socio-economic background as you than you do with a Ciswoman who grew up in a very different environment to you.

polaricecaps Thu 11-Jan-18 21:38:41

I would have to state I 'self-define as a woman' on application, rather than be filling it in because I am a woman? Bollocks to that.

BrownLiverSpot Thu 11-Jan-18 21:39:04

As long as they get other things right.

ferntwist Thu 11-Jan-18 21:39:07

Lyra, the point is that you can’t idebtify into biological sex. You’re either a woman or a man (for 99%+).

ferntwist Thu 11-Jan-18 21:41:56

Lyra, do some more reading the feminism boards here and your eyes will open. Transwomen are women is a meaningless mantra that doesn’t stand up to factual analysis. A transwoman is a man. Cosmetic surgery doesn’t change your sex. Taking hormone tablets doesn’t change your sex. Wearing a dress doesn’t change your sex. 80-95% of men who identify as transwomen keep their penis anyway. Women don’t have penises.

LyraPotter Thu 11-Jan-18 21:42:08

@ferntwist that view is no longer accredited by doctors, psychologists or biologists. Nobody with any scientific credibility now considers biological sex and gender to be the same thing.

ferntwist Thu 11-Jan-18 21:42:59

There are already more than two penises for every vagina in the Commons anyway. We don’t need a scheme to encourage more penises there.

scaryteacher Thu 11-Jan-18 21:43:12

Transwomen are not women. Drop the cis crap as well. I would have far more in common with a woman than a trans person who identifies as female.

EsmesRedPetticoat Thu 11-Jan-18 21:44:11

Trans women are trans women. They are very unlikely to have:
Menstruated
Given birth (twice)
Been refused the morning after pill because “it’s not an emergency”
Sat and worried over a pregnancy test and wondered how the fuck they would cope if it was positive
Had crippling period pains
So no lyra my experience is really not likely to match theirs at all

IcedCocoa Thu 11-Jan-18 21:44:19

Oh, that is nonsense, Lyra, I am sure my many experiences of being female (periods, miscarriages, pregnancies, rape and sexual abuse, doing most of the household work, dealing with drunk men, controlling men, supercilious men, being a single parent, being paid less) have WAY more in common with another women who gets why women hate being told they are cis-gendered than any transwomen of my own social class.

I cannot speak for all women, but I would suggest there are many specific experiences which women have in common, which are nothing to do with race or class but everything to do with sex.

saltandvinegarcrisps1 Thu 11-Jan-18 21:45:20

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ferntwist Thu 11-Jan-18 21:45:39

Lyra gender is a social construct, different in different societies and through the ages but generally to the detriment of women.
Sex is biological and cannot change. Women are oppressed due to their sex - reproductive capacity (gender pay gap is because of marernity) and our smaller relative size. So-called transwomen do not share in this.

IcedCocoa Thu 11-Jan-18 21:46:18

And that is the whole point, sex and gender are NOT the same thing.

You cannot change sex.

Gender norms, styles, fashions change ALL the time, across different places, because they are socially constructed.

joystir59 Thu 11-Jan-18 21:46:29

Transwoman are men. They were born with male biology. They were and always will be men

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