Son still sleeps with mother(118 Posts)
AIBU to think that (a) it's creepy that my OH's son still sleeps with his mother at 9 years old; (b) that my OH puts up with son and mother sleeping at his house, and I have to vacate.
Background history - OH's son's mother abducted him from the UK when he was very young. She will not allow her son to visit his father on his own.
OH "whispers" when on the phone to me whilst son and mother are there. The situation is delicate, as he has court orders in the UK giving him 50% custody, but they are not enforceable in the jurisdiction where his son's mother lives.
There are all sorts of issues arising from this, but one I cannot deal with is that the mother feels entitled to sleep in my OH's house (her son should of course sleep there, but why should she??); and that my OH's parents pay for her flights.
I don’t think it’s creepy that a nine year old boy sleeps in the same bed as his mum. I don’t see why it would be. He is a child.
OH’s parents may feel obliged to pay for the flights as that is their grandson and they may well be worried that if they don’t pay for them they won’t see their grandchild.
The co sleeping isn't really the issue here so I'm not sure why that seems to be the main focus, and no I don't think it's creepy at 9 years old.
DS1 who is 8 loves to come and sleep in my bed when DP is away
There is nothing wrong with a nine year old sharing a bed with his mother.
Why do you think it is creepy?
His grandparents can buy them flights any time they like.
It just sounds like you're looking for a problem.
YABU to think them sleeping in the same bed is creepy.
YANBU to be annoyed that she has to stay for visits to his dad. Unless they live far apart and she travels with him, or there is a back story/issued that you haven’t mentioned.
Co-sleeping isn't creepy.
Being shipped out from your home whenever the ex visits so she can sleep over is bloody weird though. If OH won't do something about I'd writing the relationship off as a bad one.
Why on earth shouldn't a 9yo sleep with his parent?
Why on earth shouldn't GPs pay for their DGC and his mother to visit?
You may have some issues with your DP but I don't see what his ex or his parents are doing wrong.
It's not creepy to me. You got involved with him knowing the set up..... that his parent's pay for her flights are non of your business.
She clearly doesn't want her son left with him alone...hence she stays at his home. Your OH accepts this.... so you need to as well.
My DS, 9, gets in my bed.
He thinks the dark is creepy!
that my OH puts up with son and mother sleeping at his house, and I have to vacate.
I missed this bit. Is it your OHs house or joint?
Honestly...I'd rethink this relationship. Too much hassle.
Has she travelled there with her son? Maybe she's worried your oh will abduct the child as she did
Nothing creepy about it. My DCs don't regularly sleep with me but in many cultures it is fine for boys and girls till they hit puberty to sleep with their parents. It's not a big deal.
1) not creepy, especially if there is no free bedroom for her to sleep in. It is perfectly reasonable at that age if they are traveling and there are no spare bedrooms.
2) not unreasonable for his parents to pay the flights, mine still offer to pay outs and so do the inlaws. It is quite expensive to travel abroad when when there is a single household income and responsibility for a dependent.
What is quite off is that your DP do not offer to pay.
3) if she had really abducted the kid and your partner REALLY wanted to enforce the 50/50 he can. She is currently under the jurisdiction of the order and therefore the order is enforceable. If she was abroad... there is just a very small handful of countries who do not have agreements for the repatriation of abducted children so she could actually be arrested when she is abroad. It is your partner who is reluctant to act on it, if he really wanted the 50/50 the order gives him, there is quite Little the woman can do to stop him.
4) you are being played on, in reality your partner is speaking quietly to keep YOU happy telling you what he thinks YOU want to hear. I can assure you that as soon as e hangs the phone he is behaving towards her as if she was an old friend (Ivan assure you that if that was not the case she wouldn’t be staying there, unless... does your DP still lives with his parents???)
Not creepy. My 8 year old DD regularly wants me in her bed. But I don't think thats necessarily the issue here is it?
Why does your OH allow his son to be taken out out of the country when he has 50% custody?
If for example the child visiting his father in the UK and there is a 50% custody order in place why does your OH allow his ex to take the child out of the UK. He needs to apply for a prohibitive steps to stop this.
As for the child sleeping with his mother. Its not healthy, as in the long term children who sleep with a parent lack self reliance and can have anxiety and attachment issues.
That is the view of psychologists.
I personally find it creepy and as in this case ,the mothers seem to be clinging to their children for a variety of reasons.
Babyish, but not creepy.
Some 9 year olds are very young compared to others. They will grow out of it.
That's a good point NotSure. It sounds like mother and son regularly visit UK, so why hasn't DP taken steps to have the court order enforced?
TBH I don't think the co sleeping is your problem.
Clearly you and OH have issues to resolve regarding how your relationship is going to work in relation to his son. That seems to be where there is a problem
I’m confused about where this child lives, is it in the UK or abroad? Why do you have to move out when she comes over with the child? Why doesn’t your OH have unsupervised access to his child? Is he happy having his ex supervise him?
It all sounds very odd to me, the sleeping arrangements are the least of it!
@BuzzKillington you have just made yourself look really quite dim. Co-sleeping has no correlation with how 'young' or 'old' anyone is and frankly only chronological age determines that. You as a grown adult calling a small child 'babyish' now that is immature.
This is the second thread today about this
this is fooked up.. get the hell out of there OP
B) is bloody unreasonable and disrespectful. Posters have focussed on A) at the expense of B)
Not creepy at all. And would you prefer to pay for her hotel when she flies over? And if he's not comfortable leaving his mother why force him? Your oh sounds like he's doing the best he can for his son. Also she moved back to her own country didn't she?
You being shoved out is ridiculous. F*ck that. You shouldn't be hidden and shoved under the rug for the comfort of his ex.
But no to a, he's a kid. You're boyfriend is being the sketchy/creepy one
You don't have to be there, you don't have to be part of this. If a situation with your DP's Ex and Child bothers you, it's alright to call it quits. Everyone's tolerance threshold is different but if you're very unhappy you don't have to put up with it. I wouldn't vacate my home for the Queen of Sheba let alone a normal human.
Mine, when 9, would've thought sleeping with parents babyish, as would I zeeboo.
That's my opinion. I don't resort to name calling because I don't share someone's point of view. HTH
Agree with most others. It's not necessarily odd for a 9 year old to co-sleep with a parent. In many parts of the world, it would be the norm.
But it is a bit odd that one parent can't seem to trust the other parent to be able to parent well enough without sleeping over to supervise. I co-sleep with my dd until she was 3.5 (and then she left to sleep in her own room by choice). But I also know my dh (her dad) is similarly perfectly capable of nighttime parenting her and he has (and still would, she's 5) co-sleep with her if that's what she needed. It means she can go away with him on his own or I can go away on a trip and leave them at home and they do just fine. He's just as competent at parenting as I am and he has a bond with our dd that makes her comfortable staying with him.
If your partner's ds doesn't know him well, I can see why it would be reasonable for her mum to sleep over when she visits to help her get used to being with him. I'm assuming if she lives in another country, they don't visit often. But if they have an otherwise strong bond, your partner should be taking on more responsibility for the parenting, including solo parenting. But if they're traveling quite far, I can understand she would want to stay over while they visit, otherwise, it becomes really prohibitively expensive to allow visitation if he isn't able or willing to collect his ds from his home. When I used to visit my dad, who I didn't have a strong relationship with so would have rarely stayed alone, except maybe when I was like 16/17, my mum would come with us and stay over (though we didn't co-sleep). But certainly once my dad had a partner, we were all part of one big family and when they lived together, we would all stay together and that wasn't weird. I think it sounds like there are a lot of factors here that might make their relationship seem odd or really reasonable, depending.
Ultimately, your partner gets to choose though how he interacts with his ds and his ex. If you aren't comfortable with it, you don't have to stay in the relationship.
Poshindevon can you share links please. I'm a scientist in the field of child behaviour and have never come across this view from psychologists so would be interested to see your sources.
Oh and my very independent 5 year old cosleeps.
On the bright side, OP, at least you can be reasonably confident your OH isn’t cheating on you in your absence - what with his son and the ex sharing a bed and all.
You shouldn't be forced out OP but I guess your OH is trying to handle a very delicate situation regarding his son and doesnt want to risk not seeing him again. I think it best just to support him with this for now
i dont think its particularly weird at all for a 9 year old to sleep in the same bed as a parent. As for the other stuff, no idea, but I think its possibly not your business
Poshindevon clearly has no understanding of attachment if they think cosleeping creates attachment issues
My DC 8 shares my bed most nights.
That’s not an issue.
The rest of the stuff seems to be him trying to resolve issues privately. Unsure how I’d approach that.
The rest needs sorting out between oh and his ex and lawyers.
It seems a real mess all round with her calling all the shots.
Dont know if i would want to be caught up in it tbh.
It's not creepy at all. It sounds like your partner and his parents will do all they can to see his son and understandably keep his mum happy, so not to jeopardise things.
I can see how it's hard for you, but in the circumstances I'm not sure what they can do.
If I was in their situation I'd do all I could to see my child.
It’s not creepy but I think he needs to try to persuade her that his son now stays with him alone while she stays at a hotel/B&B. That’s definitely weird.
Ds(13) slept in mine regularly at 9. At 13 he only does it if he is either feeling ill or has seen something on tv which was unexpectedly scary.
The whole situation sounds weird, but the least weird part is the 9 year old sharing a bed with his mother. Couldn’t you just find a man without so much drama? I couldn’t be bothered with this at all.
Thanks for all the comments! It is definitely helpful to understand from others that it isn’t creepy for them to sleep together – I don’t know this, as my experience is that children always sleep separately from birth.
I think the focus is on that, perhaps incorrectly (from my part) – but actually what bothers me is her staying in the house. NotSureThisIsWhatIwa
In the UK, he has court orders giving him 50% custody, of course – but after the abduction, he simply had nothing to say / do despite spending thousands of pounds in legal proceedings.
Mother and son do not regularly visit at all – this is one of the first times. I think everything should be done in his son’s best interests, however as an “outsider” I think the sleeping with his mother will definitely cause issues, and the fact that he is allowed no independence.
By way of further background, she is wealthy and can afford accommodation and flights – she appears to simply be a bit of a scrounger.
Agreed completely - I have no issues providing support but I suppose I feel uncomfortable personally and thought here was a place to vent a little.
I think the sleeping with his mother will definitely cause issues, and the fact that he is allowed no independence.
Your opinion is unqualified and irrelevant.
If he wants to see his child, then he will have no choice but to go along with her wishes as the law cannot help him.
You have to decide how much you are willing to tolerate to remain in this relationship. You have no say in the relationship he has with his child.
Can I how often does he go to see his son and why he hast moved closer to him?
But it is a bit odd that one parent can't seem to trust the other parent to be able to parent well enough without sleeping over to supervise.
How is that odd? I never allow my young son to be unsupervised with his father. He's an ex-alcoholic-current-drug addict who can't be trusted to not pass out in the middle of the day or drive while intoxicated. I allow him to visit at our house or I take DS to his house, mainly for DS to see his extended paternal family, and I stay with him at all times. A situation that's not that unusual tbh. I know plenty of separated parents with sole custody or parents who stay in a relationship because it's the only way to ensure their child will never be left alone with the other parent (for damn good reason).
How much of this do you really know, and how much of it has been told to you by your OH? I do wonder if the whispering on the phone when they are they might be down to the wife not knowing about you? And that one explaination for the wife feeling entitled to sleep there is because she is the wife?
Son sleeps with his mother? No not at all creepy.
Son and his mother stay with son's father? Nice, because they are, and always will be, connected. They made a family together and both love their son.
Partner's parents pay for their grandson and his mother to visit? None of your fucking business.
You sound very bitter.
The OP clearly states in her first post that the son and his mother are staying in his house. She is not being asked to vacate her home.
I agree with others, whilst not really the norm in the U.K. it is common in many cultures for prepubescent children to sleep with their mother. This may continue for afternoon naps for life - as my friend told me in horror on her return from her first visit to ILs in India
I can understand your unease and frustration with mother & son ousting you, but as it is a temporary thing I’d suck it up. If it becomes frequent, you’ll need to decide if it’s something you can live with.
I imagine the GPs are desperate to see their grandson and are therefore willing to facilitate this in any way they can.
Not creepy, no. But you finding it creepy is kind of creepy imo.
There may be various issues in that family but I hardly think that’s any of your business.
As for the whispering... seems disrespectful. Have you talked with OH about this?
I'm quite surprised how many people think it is normal for a boy of that age to sleep in the same bed as any parent, mother or father.
Wife is definitely ex, they have been divorced for quite a number of years. OH is not an alcoholic / paedo / drug user. For those of you that think this is normal / not creepy (or that I am the creepy one!), can I ask how you would feel if it were the other around - how would you feel if, by some means, your ex would not allow your child to stay over at your home unless the ex himself was there too, and the ex himself slept in bed with, say, your 9 year old daughter?
For all the crazies saying I am bitter and interfering, I have not said anywhere that I resent OH relationship with his son - he has fought hard to have any access whatsoever, despite being legally entitled to 50% custody. He cannot move country to be closer because of work. I have zero issue with his son staying in his house, obviously!
It seems like you're sexualising the bed sharing. Ice. Sorry but you're the creepy one.
A - Not creepy
B - If it's not your home, your boyfriend can ask you to leave for whatever reason he likes. You can accept it or end the relationship.
Oh, and it's none of your business how your boyfriend's parents spend their money.
A parent sleeping with their 9 year old daughter? Yes perfectly normal. Do you have kids OP? Your weird implications are unsettling.
I have never said anywhere that any of it is my business - I simply think about it a lot, and asking opinions on whether my thoughts are unreasonable!
As to sexualising bed sharing, I am not at all - I simply asked what people would think on here if the tables were turned, and I can't imagine, from the rather judgy responses on there, that people would be so happy if the situation were the other way around.
Also I should add that OH visits his son as and when he can, and always rents a separate place.
I simply think about it a lot
Why waste your time thinking about something that doesn't concern you?
It's up to you boyfriend and his ex to decide how contact works for them. I think this may not be the relationship for you.
Why is it his house? It's her and her son's home which he visits when in that country. It is not his house. It may have been his former family Home and it may be a shared asset.
@steff13 ....errrr because I am human and not a robot?!
Dd (9) sleeps in my bed since a burglar came into my bedroom while I was asleep. Dh was out. Dd is unaware as I awoke and he ran out without taking anything. We pretended that dh had broken the glass in the door from slamming in the wind. It coincided with a slat on her bed breaking so I used that as an excuse to co sleep for a while and she was really happy to do so. That was 3 years ago. I know she could do with going back to her bedroom and we bought her a new duvet cover and curtains for Christmas so maybe she will when we get it sorted. However, there is nothing creepy about co sleeping. And dd has secure attachment.
@shhhfastasleep - no, it was never the family home .
errrr because I am human and not a robot?!
Well, enjoy yourself then. I'm also human and I tend to not waste headspace thinking about things that don't have anything to do with me. Each to his own, I guess.
Helpful comment - maybe something has happened that I am not aware of, nor OH - he doesn't agree with the co sleeping either, and finds it absurd - but if something has happened like that then I can understand it more.
@steff13 - clearly you must just be perfect and brilliant then. Well done.
What do you mean, if the situation was the other way around? Do you mean if the child was co-sleeping with their Dad? My 10yo DD sometimes climbs in with us and she always chooses DH’s side of the bed. It’s fine.
Op, you said this "but one I cannot deal with is that the mother feels entitled to sleep in my OH's house". Why is their Home his house? He might have bought somewhere for his son and the mother to live in but it is not your OH's house other than, perhaps on paper.
@Capelin - No, clearly I mean the other way around, as in the exact opposite - imagine you, for various reasons, have to pander to your ex in order to be able to see your child. Your child sleeps in bed with your ex. Your child is only allowed to visit you if the ex comes and sleeps with your child. That is the other way around!
@shhhfastasleep - you say "their home" - it is not - i clearly said they live in a different country.
This is a classic example of a Mumsnet thread where everyone gets judgey and bosom-hoicky about one small part of the issue, whilst ignoring the actual issue.
OP he needs better legal advice.
But in that case, why would the answers be different? It’s the same situation. I don’t understand
Cosleeping aside, it sounds like there is a 9 year old boy who does not see his son often.
It would be unusual for a 9 year old to travel and/ or stay on their own.
Yes his Dad is his Dad, but he might not really know him iyswim?
Does son really know about you? Could that be why you do not stay when he us there?
Also? Sorry if i missed it up thread, but who normally lives in the home fill time?
Just OH, the two of You? His folks?
@Foodylicious - me and OH live in the home full time. I have never met his son, I would like to one day, but only when the time is right for him. I wouldn't mind leaving the home at all to give space to son and OH, but the reason for leaving is due to the ex.
Perhaps aibu regarding travel, but I know plenty of people whose children have travelled alone (on flights only, and obviously with airline staff supervision / companions).
@ohFucko - agreed - he has of course tried, in both jurisdictions. In the foreign country, he has been advised it could take years to reach any conclusion / resolution, and so he decided to suck it up and see his son when the ex allows it, rather than fight for years and not see his son at all during that time.
No way in hell would I let my da travel internationally alone at 9. I don't care if others do.
No disrespect meant, but not sure if he is having you on te custody not being enforceable.
If she had been proven in a court of law (uk) to have abducted him I find it unlikely that she would be able to keep taking him out of the country.
Or is she not abducting him again every time she does this?
@Foodylicious - technically, yes. The custody order from UK isn't enforceable in the jurisdiction his son is in - or, it could be, but it would take years to enforce it.
@Foodylicious - there are many court orders against the ex!
If my man's ex was sleeping round his, I'd bail out of the relationship. I'm not interested in that kind of relationship dynamic. I wouldn't analyse it - I'd be gone. Coupled with the rest you've described - just too much hassle. 1 man surely can't be worth all this
I think YANBU OP, it sounds like a very odd set-up.
I slept in my mum's bed when my.dad went away on business until I left home! She's my mum ffs
However that really isn't the issue is it?
& since you live together - where do you go when she comes to UK? Whenever it is - a suggestion would be for you to stay there for a bit whilst seeking your own home.
Are you sure your man's divorced? & I think he's having you on about the custody issue and travel arrangements. Huge elaborate stories to justify you being a secret, and having to hide whenever "ex" is around.
How long are you prepared to do that for? & why? I don't get it.
My 9 year old daughter sleeps in with her Dad as she gets scared staying at his flat. Sometimes bunking has to be done. Totally normal.
However the main issue is not this as others have said.
Whay country is it? Then posters may be able to helo you. If he has 50 50 in Uk and had been done for abduction surely there is grounds for him to be the resident parent?
Not simply allow her to travel to another country and make it all on her terms.
Unless there is a major part missing this does not make any sense at all.
Very confused and you don't seem to get much clearer as to whose family Home it is.
Incidentally, do you live in his house or is the place you live owned by both of you? If you aren't married and don't have a legal agreement in place, he could turf you out at a moment's notice.
If she had been proven in a court of law (uk) to have abducted him I find it unlikely that she would be able to keep taking him out of the country.
Or is she not abducting him again every time she does this?
Exactly! Surely this would flag up somewhere. Well you would hope so in views of child safeguarding.
I agree I don't think you're hearing the whole (or true) story.
If she's previously abducted him, she wouldn't risk bringing him back because she wouldn't be able to leave with him again.
The court order might not be enforceable in her country but they're currently in UK, what steps is DP taking?
The co-sleeping is a non issue, just drop it.
You having to leave your home because of her is ridiculous though. I wouldn't do it.
When they arrive, can he not put his foot down and refuse to let his son leave? He does have joint custody after all! I know this could be seen as essentially abducting his own child but she did it too...? I don't know if that's the right thing to do but just an idea.
He really needs to get better legal advice!
Of course he could do the same - however his son is at school, has friends, his life etc already established - so I think OH would not choose to deliberately turn his son's life upside down by being as callous as his son's mother has been.
It may that she thinks OH would do the same, and that would explain why she won't let their son stay with OH on his own?
Yes that could be the reason.
And good point...
I would still put your foot down about leaving your own home but perhaps just go out with friends / to the gym / pub etc a lot to give them space... don't let her have the expectation of you bending backwards so much for her or she'll expect it forever.
Sounds like your OH has to do what we says as you have said so this is one of those things. It is a lot to ask you to move out while they are there but sounds like he can't argue with ex. It's not fair but he wants he to come back.
What would you ideal scenario be? mum drops kid off and goes to hotel? I don't think that is best for ds who doesn't get to see dad often.
Most 9 year olds I know don't sleep in parents bed. But I don't think it is creepy. Just because they sleep in the same bed when away doesn't mean that is always the case. Would your OH have 2 spare rooms to allow them to sleep separately anyway?
Um, you do realise he has a wife and family overseas and you’re the bit on the side, right? Why do you think you’ve never met the kid? I’ll wager the only person sleeping with the “ex” is your “D”P.
Is your real concern that mum and son aren't really co-sleeping but that Mum and DP might be?
Op never visits there (wherever there is). Her Oh has two properties- one here - which op appears to have no rights to - and one there where his son and the son's mother live. Son never visits UK since his Mum took him.
Alarm bells ringing for me all over this.
Is the son a British citizen?
I think that it is true that bringing back a child that has been abducted can take years in court. But there is something that doesn’t make sense in what he is telling you: if he has an order, and the child is abducted and he makes the court Seattle of that, the parent who abducted the child will be arrested at the airport on return. He has not chosen to do this.
Normally court battles are extremely costly, not only on the financial side but the emotional side. I really find it very difficult to believe that they have had such a bitter battle and still can find themselves together under the same roof... ANY roof.
I think he is having you on this. It is much easier to say your evil ex doesn’t allow you to see the kids than explaining to the world you are actually not such a good parent. I think the whispering is because he wants to keep you to his side of the story or because he is saying nasty things about her and in both cases it is perfectly reasonable to whisper if she is around.
I understand that thing of not wanting to introduce new partners when the new one has been the OW but after all these years divorced, that doesn’t make sense either as it is perfectly reasonable for him and her to have moved on and have some well established relationships. Why does he has to ask you to move out while they are here? Why he doesn’t want his son to know about it? I doubt very much that living his life abroad he has any hopes that his parents can make up and end up together again. In that your partner is being very unreasonable and disrespectful.
There is one thing that is true of children rom previous relationships: They don’t go away. You can manipulate stuff around to ensure your OH has contact or no contact in your terms but that will break him inside as he will still be missing his kid. You can choose to accept the situation and play along considering contact is extremely sporadic or you can choose to end it and find another person with less baggage or more courage to make things right for his child, yourself and everyone involved.
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