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Ask about vegetarianisim and veganisim

(153 Posts)
ginorwine Mon 11-Dec-17 10:06:48

Ok so I hate the way a great deal of meat gets on our plates - gross .
Was a veggie for 20 years but then decided to eat high welfare meat - this was on the basis that I felt being a veggie was sort of running away from issues / avoiding them as well as refusing to participate in meat producing industry were I could ( aware still had cheeses etc so not entirely )
I chose to eat high welfare meat as I wanted to use my consumer power to buy a good life for the animal and use consumer power to ' vote ' for this
As opposed to being invisible to the meat industry iyswim
In this way I felt it was contributing in a small way to saying the industry needs to be kinder and for animals to have less miserable exustsnce
However I just can't eat meat anymore
But I feel that I'm avoiding the issue almost
I wonder if anyone can explain to me in what ways veggie or vegan help animals by being not meat eaters - I'm
Hoping to address this - I can't be an active activist but would be willing to donate or support relevant campaigns .
Thanks - felt amibu to decide to be veggie / vegan when I actively want animals to have a better life and death

SpartonDregs Mon 11-Dec-17 10:10:41

Top tip in life: just eat what you want. If you want to eat meat eat it. If not don't. From a veggie of 33 years.

ginorwine Mon 11-Dec-17 10:16:37

I know what you mean
I don't want to eat meat but I also want the meat industry to hear why rather than be invisible as in wd like to improve animals lives and wonder if being veggie alone can do that or what action can be coupled with this decision or am I more pro active eating higher welfare meat ....

WoolyMammyoth Mon 11-Dec-17 11:04:15

Look at it this way -

If everybody gave up eating meat, the meat industry would disappear.

If everybody shifted to eating high welfare meat, the meat industry would (in theory) shift entirely to high welfare meat.

So it depends on what your ethics would rather see.

MissBax Mon 11-Dec-17 11:06:32

In 2014 400million less animals were killed for meat. Just in the USA!

MissBax Mon 11-Dec-17 11:08:18

That was compared to 2007 btw

Julie8008 Mon 11-Dec-17 11:24:23

If everybody shifted to eating high welfare meat, the meat industry would (in theory) shift entirely to high welfare meat

Only its not that simple. Putting money into the meat industry supports the whole meat industry, there is no strict dividing lines between high and low welfare, the main difference is advertising and spin.

Vegetarianism is almost main streamed. If we can do the same for Veganism then there would be genuine choice between, animal products and animal free products. So I would support vegan alternatives in supermarkets/shops and vegan meals in restaurants. The more we ask for them the more they will be available.

RavingRoo Mon 11-Dec-17 11:29:10

Vegetarianism doesn’t always result in public good or even animal welfare. Just look at India for example - place where vegetarianism / Buddhism was invented, where animals are worshipped, and still entire species are becoming extinct and entire swathes of land turned into draught plains (that then flood and eventually become deserts) because of the need to plant crops.

curryforbreakfast Mon 11-Dec-17 11:30:33

I don't want to eat meat but I also want the meat industry to hear why rather than be invisible

So you'd like to virtue signal your vegetarianism? You really need to be vegan for that, no?

RavingRoo Mon 11-Dec-17 11:39:24

If you want to make a local UK difference you could help Bhaktivedenta manor to adopt more elderly and sick cows so they don’t need to be slaughtered. They have drives that just sponsor that part of their work so donations don’t get mixed with the religious work they do.

Alternatively you could volunteer at farms to offer to do specific work so local farmers have more money to spend to go organic / free range / ethical. My ex-colleague (now retired) for example has taken over accounting, bankinf and book keeping for five of his local farms entirely for free. He has saved them thousands and they use this to make their farms more ethical. Now he’s planning to add negotiation to the mix and thinks he can get a better price for them at specific local shops.

Etc etc. Lots you can do locally to get involved and make a difference without going vegan or vegetarian.

ginorwine Mon 11-Dec-17 12:05:53

Curry I don't want to virtue signal
I want to take action
I'm asking is being veggie or vegan enough / does it make a actual difference or does eating high welfare animal
Products make the most difference to animal s lives
I don't need to be seen to be virtuous I don't give a damm about what others think I just want to put my money were my moth is so to speak 😊

ginorwine Mon 11-Dec-17 14:11:43

Raving
That's a good idea !

Seniorcitizen1 Mon 11-Dec-17 17:12:30

If people stopped eating meat then cows sheep chickens etc would all become extinct as without a food outlet humans would have no need for them. Same with horse racing - if banned then no thorough bred horses. I love meat and fish and wont stop eating them. You eat what you want but dont lecture

Julie8008 Mon 11-Dec-17 17:20:01

If people stopped eating meat then cows sheep chickens etc would all become extinct

LoL what nonsense.

ButterfliesAreWeird Mon 11-Dec-17 17:24:47

Im confused. So you don't care about animals you just want bragging rights?

PaperdollCartoon Mon 11-Dec-17 17:29:38

I don’t think it has to be all or nothing. I’ve been vegan but now eat more flexibly (never meat and rarely eggs but some cheese and fish when out, at home we’re 99% plant based)
Buying more vegan products signals to businesses that they’re wanted, dairy product sales are declining because of this. Eating more high welfare meat does encourage this, but if you don’t want to eat meat buying alternatives (Linda McCartney or Quorn for example) also triggers market reactions.

If everyone did stop eating animals they certainly would dwindle in numbers, as they’re bred wildly beyond what they’d be if left to nature. I think that’s fine, better never born than born to live a horrid life of suffering like most animals bred for food products.

BarrowInFurnessBusDepot Mon 11-Dec-17 17:29:56

The animals that are farmed and eaten/milked bear very little resemblance to their wild ancestors anyway. They have been artificially manipulated to become mere products of production (meat or milk). This is often cruel and leads to disability and lifelong pain and infection.

I think it would probably be better if these poor animals did become extinct. They’re not supposed to exist in the first place.

Bobbinsandthread Mon 11-Dec-17 17:47:12

My vegan friend thinks that if everyone became vegan tomorrow then the countryside would be full of animals living lovely lives.
I don't think this is true btw.

curryforbreakfast Mon 11-Dec-17 17:51:32

LoL what nonsense

Why would anyone keep cows, chickens and pigs if everyone were vegetarian? As useless pets?

ButterfliesAreWeird Mon 11-Dec-17 18:24:17

@Julie8008 no it's totally true. We stopped eating dogs in this country and now they are totally extinct! 😱

Bobbinsandthread Mon 11-Dec-17 18:31:40

I think dogs have more personality than sheep! Can you housetrain a sheep?

PaperdollCartoon Mon 11-Dec-17 18:36:04

Sheep don’t have much personality no, but pigs are smarter than many dogs and as smart as 3 year old children. Plus we know they suffer pain and don’t deserve to be born just to die for our pleasure - even if they’re not riviting company at parties

WoolyMammyoth Mon 11-Dec-17 19:18:24

I'd love pet chickens, whether or not I was using them for their eggs/meat. They're just as useless a pet as a hamster otherwise, and friendlier to boot.

SilverySurfer Mon 11-Dec-17 20:52:18

Just eat what you want to eat. I do eat meat, because I am an extremely fussy eater, my diet mostly consists of meat/fish potatoes and veg. I don't eat pasta or rice or any foreign cuisines or beans, pulses, mushrooms or garlic - the list is endless it would be impossible for me to survive on a vegetarian diet, even less so a vegan one.

But I do care about how the animals are treated and only buy free range, organic etc. As a meat eater I think it's the least I can do.

VladmirsPoutine Mon 11-Dec-17 20:59:30

Do you want to essentially campaign for ethical treatment of animals?

I'm not sure if you eat meat or not? Or just sometimes.

Just live as ethically as you can. That's all there is too it.

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