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Is the new defense secretary BU : '''a dead terrorist can’t cause any harm to Britain''

(39 Posts)
cdvegan2023 Thu 07-Dec-17 10:04:42

*Not a single British citizen who has fought for Islamic State should be allowed back into the UK, the Defence Secretary declared last night.

Gavin Williamson signalled he was prepared to hunt down and use air strikes against the remaining 270 UK passport holders who have travelled to Syria and Iraq.

In an interview with the Daily Mail, he said: ‘Quite simply, my view is a dead terrorist can’t cause any harm to Britain.’

He added: ‘I do not believe that any terrorist, whether they come from this country or any other, should ever be allowed back into this country.

‘We should do everything we can do to destroy and eliminate that threat.’*

I guess his stance is : ''nuke them from orbit...it's the only way to be sure'' fshock

RestingGrinchFace Thu 07-Dec-17 10:09:01

While I agree that joining ISIS should get treated as a forfeiture of citizenship or an act of treason the "a dead terrorist" statement can easily be taken out of context. But absolutely. Kill the bastards, Britain is partly responsible that these people exist in the first place, so Britain should deal with them.

MephistophelesApprentice Thu 07-Dec-17 10:14:52

I can't really disagree with him, to be honest. Bringing them back into the country is an unacceptable cost and an unacceptable risk. We don't have the resources to keep track of every potential threat already in the country. It's not even really a criminal case - they joined an army that declared war on us and claimed responsibility for horrifically murderous crimes against civilians. Even if we could somehow claim it was a criminal case, they should by tried by the countries they attacked - but that's just placing the burden on those damaged and impoverished nations.

It's not as if there's much questionable about their guilt. The Kurds and other allied tribes have provided formal recognition of those who volunteered to fight on their side, so anyone claiming they went to Syria and 'accidentally' ended up with ISIS is clearly lying. It's a bit like finding someone in SS uniform hanging around Dachau and claiming to be a janitor. There's no real moral case to answer either, as if you willingly associate with those who engage in sex slavery, public torture and mass murder you can't really claim to be a brave freedom fighter.

They're our responsibility. We need to hunt them down and eliminate them as a threat to humanity in as final a fashion as the security services can arrange.

Youshallnotpass Thu 07-Dec-17 10:21:06

100% - kill them all, they made their choice.

They are in effect enemy soldiers now, they have forfeited any rights they had as British citizens.

Council Thu 07-Dec-17 10:23:11

Well, he's not wrong and your average DM reader and (many) tory voters will love that line.

Birdsgottafly Thu 07-Dec-17 10:25:10

The issue that I have is that he includes children who have been groomed or recruited as children.

So we believe in grooming as long as the girl stays in the UK, but if she travels abroad then it's her fault.

By threatening air strikes he has signed their death warrants and also for their babies/toddlers.

What he is saying is that children/young people can't be manipulated or rehabilitated.

Which then puts a question mark over all serious offenders, who are put through rehabilitation programs and released. A dead pedophile can't reoffend.

Britain's terror watchdog and other organisations say that he is wrong to take a zero tolerance response.

I trust those over a Tory politician, tbh.

lljkk Thu 07-Dec-17 10:37:44

Very U. It's completely naive & stupid thing to say.

It's advocating lethal punishment -- I thought we abolished the death penalty? Who serves and judge & jury, no due process. Just vigilante quality justice meted out in dark corners by nobody accountable.

Moreover, the Jihadis have family still in Britain. Large families who aren't yet radicalised to think violence is ok. Treating their relatives as disposable scum who deserve summary execution by the state will radicalise their relatives and perpetuate our problems.

yetanotherusernameAgain Thu 07-Dec-17 10:41:42

So we should do away with the need for a legal investigation or conviction by trial; overlook the fact that we don't have capital punishment in this country; and just go into a foreign country and execute whoever we want?

Right.....hmm

BarbarianMum Thu 07-Dec-17 10:48:47

We should probably just introduce death squads and shoot anyone who we think may prove a threat. Safest way. hmm

Youshallnotpass Thu 07-Dec-17 10:53:11

It's not 'execution' though is it?, he doesn't mean collect them all up when they arrive home and shoot them. He means they are currently enemy combatents and should be treated as such. They have technically committed treason.

Why should they be allowed to come back after instigating hatred/aggression against us and the rest of the world? A drone strike on the right people could stop the next Manchester bombing from being planned for example. This could save many innocent lives.

Council Thu 07-Dec-17 10:54:19

lljkk, I don't think he was naive at all. He knew exactly how this would play out among very large sections of voters.

Eltonjohnssyrup Thu 07-Dec-17 10:54:36

The issue that I have is that he includes children who have been groomed or recruited as children.

Where did he say that? I don't believe that's the case. Part of the reason it took so long to kill Sally Jones was that she couldn't be targeted when her son was with her, even though he is a fighter he's a child.

Eltonjohnssyrup Thu 07-Dec-17 10:56:47

And they're combatants still in combat. It's perfectly legal to kill combatants. They committed genocide and war crimes.

c3pu Thu 07-Dec-17 11:00:04

Hunting them down and killing them while they fight in Syria/Iraq etc?
Fine by me.

Quite how his "Kill em all" stance works with those trying to get back in to the UK remains to be seen. Are the armed police going to assassinate them as they disembark the plane/boat???

curryforbreakfast Thu 07-Dec-17 11:03:22

Kill them all, better they are dead....doesn't sound like the civilised side does it? How are we any better than them?

theymademejoin Thu 07-Dec-17 11:05:35

They've learned nothing from history. The final paragraph of Padraig Pearse's oration at the grave of O'Donovan Rossa very clearly illustrates the danger of killing those who the government view as terrorists but are seen by themselves and others as freedom fighters or martyrs. All that does is act as a recruitment measure.

"Life springs from death and from the graves of patriot men and women spring living nations. . . . The Defenders of this Realm have worked well in secret and in the open. They think that they have pacified Ireland. They think that they have purchased half of us and intimidated the other half. They think that they have foreseen everything, think that they have provided against everything; but the fools, the fools, the fools! — they have left us our Fenian dead, and while Ireland holds these graves, Ireland unfree shall never be at peace."

WeeBeasties Thu 07-Dec-17 11:08:26

I took it to mean: don't allow them back into this country (reasonable) and if they stay out there fighting chances are they will end up dead sooner or later.

BarbarianMum Thu 07-Dec-17 11:11:04

"A drone strike on the rightpeople ....could save many innocent lives."

And how many innocent lives have been lost through drone strikes on the wrong people? Wonder if you'd be so keen if we carried out drone strikes in your neighbourhood? Or is collateral damage only ok when the victims are foreign?

CakesRUs Thu 07-Dec-17 11:11:46

I think if you've gone abroad, to recruit yourself to ISIS, you know the ones who throw folk off buildings for being gay, stone women to death, bomb arenas filled with kids, you shouldn't be allowed back in the country.

The do gooder comments on this board beggars belief. It makes my heart sink.

GreenPurpleRed Thu 07-Dec-17 11:16:42

Why should we be civilised when they most certainly aren't?!

Agree 100% not allowed back. And if they are over there fighting and die by a UK attack then so fucking be it.

TheDayIBroke Thu 07-Dec-17 11:23:11

He's 100% correct. The sooner they can no longer pose a threat to us, the better.

MephistophelesApprentice Thu 07-Dec-17 11:24:16

To be as uncivilised as ISIS we would need to directly target civilians for no purpose other than to cause terror.

We would have to ignore the laws of war and torture and kill combatants who have become our prisoners without any investigation or inquiry.

We would have to kidnap the wives of the combatants we kill and sell them in slave markets.

ISIS fighters aren't even legal combatants as recognised by the Geneva convention, as they do not abide by the laws of war, wear distinguishable uniforms or possess a serial number for the official investigation of potential war crimes. As such, there is no legal requirement for the security services to offer anything but summary execution. Under the laws of war it would be entirely legal for them to be pulled off the airplane onto Heathrow airport runway and shot on the spot.

Hunting them down where they currently reside and eliminating them there is cleaner in many respects.

BarbarianMum Thu 07-Dec-17 11:26:56

And do you think the same should apply in reverse? If terrorists come here from abroad, should their own countries refuse to re-admit them at the end of their sentences? A sort of terrorist swap shop.

Council Thu 07-Dec-17 11:30:34

Is it even possible. How can we insist a foreign state keeps our "undesirable" citizens?

When foreign terrorists/criminals are caught here the cry is always "deport them". How can we refuse to allow other countries to do the same?

NotDavidTennant Thu 07-Dec-17 11:35:28

Under the laws of war it would be entirely legal for them to be pulled off the airplane onto Heathrow airport runway and shot on the spot.

hmm

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