Talk

Advanced search

Yet *another* gender thread ... primogeniture

(15 Posts)
LurkingHusband Thu 30-Nov-17 16:28:12

(I was feeling a bit left out, as possibly the only MNetter not to have started a thread. And then I saw ....)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/29/lord-balfour-outdated-succession-law-means-daughter-could-claim/

It promises to be a very modern solution to a centuries old problem.

The Fifth Earl of Balfour, a descendant of the Conservative prime minister, believes he has found a way for the eldest of his four daughters to inherit his title.

As the law of primogeniture stands, the Balfour title is set to pass to his lordship’s younger brother when he passes away. His four children - all of them female - don’t get a look in.

Except that Lord Balfour has spotted a loophole. All he needs is for one of them - preferably the eldest - to declare herself a man and the earldom will be hers.

He says the doors to constitutional change have been thrown open by the prospect of amendments to the 2004 Gender Recognition Act, which would allow women to legally transition to become men, and vice versa, without medical check

(contd)

VioletHaze Thu 30-Nov-17 16:33:01

Totally should happen! I would cheer him on all the way.

tinysparklyshoes Thu 30-Nov-17 16:43:12

Isn't it specifically excluded from the gender recog whatsit, so they can't?

BarbarianMum Thu 30-Nov-17 16:43:21

I thought the GRA had been written with primogeniture as a named exception? Trans rights being fine unless any men are disadvantaged by them.

sagamartha Thu 30-Nov-17 16:53:01

Primogeniture shouldn't be a thing.

However, if someone transitions to female, then the same rules should apply to them and they shouldn't inherit - if we are to have primogeniture.

Ideally we shouldn't have titles at all. But that's another thread.

sagamartha Thu 30-Nov-17 16:54:19

It promises to be a very modern solution to a centuries old problem

The solution is simple. Let the oldest person inherit a title. Regardless of sex.

It's not that difficult.

unplugmefromthematrix Thu 30-Nov-17 17:11:14

Except yes, it has already been exempted from the Equality legislation so she couldn't just transition and claim. Too many men didn't want their elder sisters to do exactly this.

And anyway, primogeniture is the problem, being a woman is the problem, not exemptions in Equality law.

It is the highest form of sexism and a total insult to women to say that they cannot inherit in their own right. You can be soooo much better bred and more worthy than all the common people but still if you are woman, then you cannot inherit that power, status and wealth.

I don't believe that gender is merely a social construct and should not be entrenched by trans law and it is utterly regressive to make women feel that they have to 'become men' to inherit, but then of course they can't inherit anyway, because they still (obviously, biologically) aren't man enough.

But the exemption in favour in men on primogeniture only proves that power, wealth and status are worth protecting for men, whereas women's concerns about their safety in wanting to keep sex segregated spaces like changing rooms, toilets and services like rape counselling is utterly unimportant and women's objections are forcefully dismissed and written off as hysterical and transphobic.

It boils down to protection of male privilege and the utter sexist nastiness that does not to allow women to inherit titles on their own right.

unplugmefromthematrix Thu 30-Nov-17 17:13:08

TYPO - I believe that gender is a social construct..

LurkingHusband Thu 30-Nov-17 17:21:25

Except yes, it has already been exempted from the Equality legislation so she couldn't just transition and claim. Too many men didn't want their elder sisters to do exactly this.

To be honest, it's not something I really followed (MN changed that a bit grin) but I do recall some hyperbole? at the time about brothers and sisters "marrying" to dodge inheritance tax. Or something like that.

I'm not sure that trying to be all things to all is going very well at the moment ? With the enormous caveat that - unless someone is saving some news for me - I don't feel directly affected at the moment.

BigDeskBob Thu 30-Nov-17 17:23:17

The primogeniture exclusion highlights the misogyny of GRA. We are told that men won't go to the bother of transitioning to sexually harass and abuse women. But those damn women would do anything for money.

ALittleBitOfButter Thu 30-Nov-17 19:17:53

Especially ruling class women!

PencilsInSpace Thu 30-Nov-17 22:39:18

This is terribly important because what if an aristocrat has an older sister? What if the older sister would like to inherit a title, a position in the House of Lords and vast tracts of land that should be rightfully his because he owns the first-born willy???!? Everyone knows older sisters of aristocrats can't be trusted at all and would take every opportunity to exploit the law for their own greedy gain. This is so likely to happen it's worth enshrining in law as an exception to the GRA to ensure that this can never happen.

Meanwhile, of course no abusive male would ever exploit the law to gain entry to women's spaces in order to indulge their fetish, intimidate or assault women, no matter how easy we make it for them to do so. This Never Happens and you're a total bigot to even suggest it might.

Let the shit hit the fan.

blackteasplease Thu 30-Nov-17 22:49:06

My God that is so shit. They specifically excluded this but rapists in women's prisons is fine. what the actual fuck.

blackteasplease Thu 30-Nov-17 22:51:51

Surely they should change the law so that if people are going to inherit titles etc it should follow the same rules as the royal family?

Pawpainting Thu 30-Nov-17 22:53:52

The primogeniture exclusion highlights the misogyny of GRA. We are told that men won't go to the bother of transitioning to sexually harass and abuse women. But those damn women would do anything for money

Yes and women are expected to parrot the 'trans women are women' line and allow males to use female facilities, attend female schools and take scholarships intended for females. But this exemption makes it clear that trans men ARE NOT considered men. They are still lowly women and treated as such

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now