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To think that trans athletes have no place in women's sports?

(253 Posts)
cdvegan2023 Mon 27-Nov-17 13:44:24

I don't think most people realise how huge athletic differences between men and women are, maybe because human sexual dimorphism doesn't appear that significant on first glance?

Not too long ago John McEnroe caused quite a stir by stating that Serena would only be around the 700 spot in men's rankings. He was called sexist, a caveman, pig etc. If anything, he was being generous and PC (as much as Mac can be, anyway). Andy Murray also stated years ago that "I would be surprised if they were inside 1000" . People don't seem to understand that the 1000 guy is still a very good player and that men's tennis is not only far more physical but also more technically complex.

www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/822372/Andy-Murray-John-McEnroe-2010-best-women-top-1000-men-Serena-Williams

In football the best women's teams lose to local 13-14 yo boys all the time. The world cup winning USA team was demolished by a Dallas boys team , 2-5. The national aussie team lost 0-7 to a random boys team of similar ages. There are countless examples like that. And these boys are no world beaters either, many of them won't even sign a pro contract in their life, never mind start for Real Madrid. If no name barely teenage boys can outplay a top adult women's team without breaking a sweat , imagine how the women would fare against grown ass men. Checking wiki I could not find a single sport where senior women had better records than junior boys. Women's olympic results are often lower than men's who do it as a hobby at their local club. And don't even get me started on violent sports.... Aibu that this is insanity?

www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/australian-womens-national-team-lose-70-to-team-of-15yearold-boys-a3257266.html

OldPony Mon 27-Nov-17 13:49:03

Completely agree.

ChabuddysPeanutDust Mon 27-Nov-17 13:50:33

YANBU.

juxtaPostion Mon 27-Nov-17 13:51:56

What's your point? That women can't keep up with men at any level?

How about things like gymnastics with that ribbon on a stick? Would women do better than me?

No1blueengine Mon 27-Nov-17 13:54:26

YABU but be prepared for the bunfight that will inevitably follow.

People really do need to remember that sport was segregated along biological sex lines for a reason. Validating someones self generated identity will come at the expense of biological women and girls everywhere.

As i understand it (and i am happy to be corrected - i would love to be wrong) testosterone blockers have a mimimal impact on the performance of biological males but does have a more significant impact on biological intersex athletes .

napmeistergeneral Mon 27-Nov-17 13:57:17

YANBU. It might be different if medical transition had occurred very very early (although I see that as problematic) but any person who has been through puberty as a male has no business competing against women in sport.I do wonder what it will take for this to be taken seriously - the serious injury or death of a woman in a major competition? It's sad how prominent female athletes do not speak out - I suspect the fear of being labelled bigoted is a major factor in this.

custarddinosaur Mon 27-Nov-17 13:59:35

Take a look at equestrianism - show jumping, dressage, 3-day eventing etc. Men and women compete in the same events and on equal terms.

No1blueengine Mon 27-Nov-17 14:02:01

YANBU!!!! fat finger error. Must be my lady brain.

Rebeccaslicker Mon 27-Nov-17 14:02:18

Custard - and if it were people jumping over the 6' fences rather than the horses, don't you think that would make a difference?!

DJBaggySmalls Mon 27-Nov-17 14:03:32

custarddinosaur Women and men only compete together in disciplines that rely on on skill over size and strength.

You dont see them competing together in weightlifting, unless the men identify as women.

araiwa Mon 27-Nov-17 14:05:26

yes. its stupid

most people get it

Changebagsandgladrags Mon 27-Nov-17 14:08:06

My friend has had to give up roller derby, a sport she loved because it is increasingly attracting trans-women. These former men tend to have a weight and height advantage which results in serious injury in a contact sport.

It's so sad. She has been bullied online for speaking out about it and demanding biologically women only teams.

BamburyFuriou3 Mon 27-Nov-17 14:09:49

Completely agree. And it is a sad unfortunate "side affect" of "transition" that the individual is no longer able to compete in physical sports in a level playing field. Trans men stand no chance against men, and trans women (regardless of age of transition and puberty blocking actually) have a totally unfair advantage over women.

araiwa Mon 27-Nov-17 14:09:56

fallon fox was a terrible fighter

but she used her size and strength to beat up women fighters

then she lost to a woman- thats how bad she was

TammySwansonTwo Mon 27-Nov-17 14:12:05

Is bad enough in track and field events but look at Fallon Fox for example - so incredibly dangerous. No wonder some athletes decide they want to transition, Olympic gold is then easily within reach.

KalaLaka Mon 27-Nov-17 14:14:30

YANBU.

SlowlyShrinking Mon 27-Nov-17 14:14:57

There are perhaps a small number of sports where men and women can compete equally against each other. Maybe archery, horse riding and I think I read that in ultra running men don’t have an advantage over women. However, in most sporting events they have a massive physical advantage. They have larger muscles and heart and lungs. They are usually taller. If a child has transitioned before going through a male puberty then maybe in this case he wouldn’t have an advantage? I’m not sure. However, I don’t believe that the “right” of TIMs to compete in sports should be seen as more important than the rights of women to be able to compete only against members of their own sex. Women’s physical safety and chance of winning is at risk if men are allowed to compete against them. Testosterone levels do not give the whole picture.

cdvegan2023 Mon 27-Nov-17 14:15:59

fallon fox was a terrible fighter

Joe Rogan was talking about him a few years ago and how unfair it was. I think he mentioned that it's not just testosterone but the size of fists, the bones, ligaments, tendons, the shoulder width, the hips... there are many differences that are not obvious to most people. It's even believed men's faces evolved to be better at taking punches.

www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27720617

WTAFisthisshit Mon 27-Nov-17 14:17:16

YADNBU

QueenLaBeefah Mon 27-Nov-17 14:18:50

YANBU.

JacquesHammer Mon 27-Nov-17 14:19:47

Take a look at equestrianism - show jumping, dressage, 3-day eventing etc. Men and women compete in the same events and on equal terms

You mean a sport that's skill based and the physicality in question is that of the horse...

IceFall Mon 27-Nov-17 14:21:59

It shocks me the TransWomen are allowed to compete inwomens sport. Completly rediculos.

The reason men and women have separate categories is because there are undeniable biological differences across the male and female population on average. Of course the best 100m womens sprinter will be a lot better than Joe Blogs average man, but she won't be as good as the best 100m male sprinter.

Allowing TransWomen to compete in womens sport means an end to meaningful womens sport.

There are some sports where men don't have an advantage - dressage and ultra running are the two that springs to mind. But they are the rare exception rather than the norm.

MissWilmottsGhost Mon 27-Nov-17 14:25:13

YADNBU sad

cdvegan2023 Mon 27-Nov-17 14:30:45

Another thing i've also found fascinated is how men ''think'' sports. What I mean is watch a top men's vs top women's game and you'll see something more than just physical. After all, Messi and Maradona are more or less average female height. This video is a pretty good description of what I'm trying to say, the boys are barely trying or using their height or weight and they are still 3 moves ahead.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehc0v06Rwvc

This goal is also a great example :

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwFg7n92Ck

When you watch a Rafa - Fed rally, you're watching art and science, not a sport.

GrimDamnFanjo Mon 27-Nov-17 14:31:14

It's already happened. It's just a matter of time before transwomen take up more places. Afaik only testosterone limits are in place and they are not within the average levels of most women athletes.

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