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Dad taking dd to ladies toilet

(551 Posts)
AdaHopper Sat 18-Nov-17 21:05:55

MN - help dh and I with a disagreement please.

When dd(4) needs the loo in a public place, he takes her to the ladies' loos. I told him that women don't like that and he should take her to the men's loo. Aibu or is he?

Sayyouwill Mon 20-Nov-17 12:45:07

It appears disabled toilets should be called ‘more convenient toilets’. To hell with the disabled people of the world.

One day when you’re coming out of using the disabled loo because you found it more convenient, and you come face to face with a disabled person who has defecated them self while waiting for you, who is upset and in tears, I hope you are at least honest with your kids as to why someone has had to face incomparable embarrassment and a lack of dignity, all so your precious trolly full of shopping or oversized pram could accompany you to the loo.

TheFairyCaravan Mon 20-Nov-17 12:54:35

The other woman challenged her Say saying there's very often only one disabled toilet so it shouldn't be used. She answered that most malls have more than one, so if it's occupied and a disabled person needs it they can go to the other end of the building. shock

Cos that works when you have mobility problems, or urgency or all of the other reasons why you are needing the disabled toilet in the first place.

Sayyouwill Mon 20-Nov-17 12:57:53

Exactly, or if you’re anywhere other than a ‘mall’. Say in a supermarket or restaurant. One toilet. That’s all we have. Apparently the people who have the most options are fathers! They can use the men’s, ladies or disabled and no one will say or do anything about it.

ItsAHardKn0ckLife1 Tue 21-Nov-17 08:10:27

Piers Morgan just touched on this briefly on GMB. What’s your husbands reaction OP?

jcyclops Tue 21-Nov-17 11:20:25

A few points of interest.
1) Do you have separate gents/ladies toilets in your house?
2) In pubs, clubs, at concerts or anywhere it is really busy you will see women using men's toilets to avoid the queues.
3) An office where I once worked had 16 staff split equally M/F and two separate single toilet cubicles. Staff voted unanimously for the toilets to be unisex, and never regretted it.
4) Trains and planes have unisex toilets.
5) A disabled toilet is NOT for the exclusive use of disabled people - the regulations make this quite clear - it just means it is equipped for them to use it. Think of small establishments where the only toilet is disabled accessible, and again, the toilets on trains.

ItsAHardKn0ckLife1 Tue 21-Nov-17 11:41:16

The thing is though, with unisex toilets you are aware they may be a male in there.

You don’t open the door of the ladies and expect an adult male to be standing there.

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 21-Nov-17 11:56:49

1) Do you have separate gents/ladies toilets in your house?

No. But then how many if your husbands/brothers/life partners/fathers would barge into the room while you were in the toilet.

2) In pubs, clubs, at concerts or anywhere it is really busy you will see women using men's toilets to avoid the queues

Women shouldn't be in the men's either.

3) An office where I once worked had 16 staff split equally M/F and two separate single toilet cubicles. Staff voted unanimously for the toilets to be unisex, and never regretted it

So you we're actually asked then. and everyone who joined the staff after would know they were unisex and expect
It.

4) Trains and planes have unisex toilets

Yes but it's one loo behind a door. No one's in their with you.

5) A disabled toilet is NOT for the exclusive use of disabled people - the regulations make this quite clear - it just means it is equipped for them to use it. Think of small establishments where the only toilet is disabled accessible, and again, the toilets on trains

Again if it's just the one universal toilet then it's for everyone

If there are men's female and disabled you use the right one. And you certainly don't use the disabled toilets when out of 2 other rooms with multiple toilets in are provided. Leave that one toilet for someome who actually needs it.

ChinaRose Tue 21-Nov-17 12:02:25

I've always used mens at events, festivals, clubs when I was younger. In Italy they were all mixed when we went out in our 20s. Holes in the floor often too. I personally wouldn't care if a daddy rook his daughter in the ladies. They are all in cubicles in the women's so who cares really?

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 21-Nov-17 12:14:22

Plenty of people wouldn't mind china

But the question is more "do you think it's right to assume all women in the loop won't mind and walk in" ?

Don't you think a man walking into the ladies loo is being selfish? He's at that moment thinking to himsekf. I don't care about the fact it's a women's space. I don't care who I upset. I don't care I should not be here or what anyone thinks of me being here. I want to use the ladies so I will.

Isn't it the attitude that bothers you even if the actual issue doesn't?

Wtfdoipick Tue 21-Nov-17 12:50:25

I personally wouldn't care if a daddy rook his daughter in the ladies. They are all in cubicles in the women's so who cares really?

I would care because I may be using the open area of the toilets to get changed rather than using a cubicle. I may also have the pushchair in front of the cubicle door and the door open. I have the right to expect only women in a designated single sex area.

AdaHopper Tue 21-Nov-17 12:52:39

HardKnock - he still doesn't know I started this thread. I daren't tell him now...
And I still don't know if I should bring it up again. Opinions seem so divided ...

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 21-Nov-17 12:56:20

Don't tell him about the thread.

But do ask him how he would feel if when his dd gets to 12 and is at secondary school and using toilets in town or at the bus station, she came out and kept finding men in the ladies. See how he woukd feel when it's not him who is the dad in the room but someone he doesn't know in the loo witg his dd.

nocake Tue 21-Nov-17 13:43:36

I'm a man with two DDs, one younger and one older. I take them into the gents as I wouldn't dream of going into the ladies.

To deal with all the objections...
1 - Yes the gents can be a bit smelly but your DH would take a DS into them so that's not a reason to not take a DD.
2 - I have never seen someone else's genitals when using the urinals. We men are generally very discreet so there's no chance of DD seeing anything untoward. And I make sure she doesn't go near them.
3 - I don't want to leave myself open to an accusation from any woman who might object to me being in the ladies. I also wouldn't want any woman using the ladies to be worried that a man might be in there.

So I would be telling your DH to take her into the gents.

KatharinaRosalie Tue 21-Nov-17 13:49:57

If it's unisex it's unisex - you know you can encounter a person of opposite sex there, and you can choose not to use the toilet. If it's single sex toilet (with multiple cubicles) then people of opposite sex have no business there. The fact that they have daughters don't make men any less men.

treaclesoda Tue 21-Nov-17 15:22:46

This thread has been mentioned several times today on Five Live.

This one must break some sort of mumsnet record for being referred to in the media.

Sennelier1 Tue 21-Nov-17 15:25:20

Some time ago I wanted to use the public bathroom in an airport waiting zone. An elderly man with 2 grandchildren, a boy and a girl, asked me very kindly if I would take the girl with me to the ladies. She was 7 or 8, and he considered it wrong to take her in the guy's bathroom, but was worried about her safety going to the ladies on her own. Of course I did, she was very well educated and polite, only needed some help with the hygienic seat-cover and of course a bit of motherly watching over her. I still think grandpa was right to ask me.

Ilovelampandchair Tue 21-Nov-17 15:37:06

So is the general consensus that it's perfectly safe to send your young child into a bathroom with a completely strange adult?

That sounds like a better plan than accompanying them yourself. 😂

crrrzy Tue 21-Nov-17 15:50:26

Where I work I'd happily open the disabled toilet, or run into the ladies, check nobody is in there and let a dad in with a little girl. Depends what the options are really when youre in public. It's very quiet here though, not many people to offend...

Notsooriginalwerther Tue 21-Nov-17 15:58:01

Yes I think that’ll solve all our toilet related troubles here Ilovelampandchair - if dads send daughters into the ladies with strange women and mums send sons into the men’s with strange men. Sorted.

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 21-Nov-17 16:05:48

Well to the other kids in the toilets you'd be the strange adult surely?

Are the young children in the loos meant to know your Ok? Especially when your the strange man on the ladies or the strange women in the men's.

ArcheryAnnie Tue 21-Nov-17 16:14:19

A man should always be in the men's loos, never the women's loos, whatever the sex of the child, if the child is young enough to need accompanying to the loo.

If the men's loos are a problem, then the men should bloody sort them out, not steal the women's loos.

AdaHopper Tue 21-Nov-17 17:06:50

I did ask dd(10) what she would think if she saw a strange man in the womens. She looked at me stragely and said: nothing smile

streetlife70s Tue 21-Nov-17 18:57:09

Whereas my daughter would be freaked out.
She unfortunately has witnessed the harassment, sexual comments and cat calls in the street and has figured out in her short life they never come from women.
Despite having a lovely brother and father, she feels wary of strange men in certain situations. Being in a toilet and seeing a man there would be one of them.

Sayyouwill Tue 21-Nov-17 19:38:52

I’ll ask this again:

Why is it okay to send your sons into the men’s toilets but not your daughters? Are you saying your daughters are more precious? Is the smell less offending to little boys? Why are you not treating your children equally?

Sayyouwill Tue 21-Nov-17 19:39:18

How would you react to a man taking his young son in the ladies?

Sayyouwill Tue 21-Nov-17 19:40:48

I may also have the pushchair in front of the cubicle door and the door open. I have the right to expect only women in a designated single sex area.

Incredibly value point here. If you are peeing with the door open because you have your pram with you, you don’t expect some strange man to waltz in!

TheHeartOfTeFiti Tue 21-Nov-17 20:48:53

This was discussed on radio Scotland today! There researchers are working hard!!

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Tue 21-Nov-17 20:54:16

Absolutely sayyou

Threads are full of 'pee with the door open' as a solution to having a buggy...ive done it many times

Very good point from that poster

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Tue 21-Nov-17 20:55:40

wtfdoipick was the original poster smile

Voice0fReason Tue 21-Nov-17 21:12:46

We're teaching a new form of subservience. You must cover up to must keep separate because else the naughty men will get you. You aren't safe.
I want to cover up if a man is free to walk in somewhere I might be undressed!

Cubicles give you your own space
Only if they are floor to ceiling cubicles.

Why is no-one answering the question about small boys? Why are little girls so precious they can't possibly experience a male toilet but little boys are fine?
I've lost count of how many times this question has been ignored.

jcyclops most of your points refer to individual enclosed toilets so there aren't any women in a vulnerable position. (like peeing with the door open)

Just because some women say they would be ok about this, it doesn't make it ok! Most women would be somewhere between uncomfortable and very distressed - surely that's enough reason not to be so selfish!
Especially when if the child was a boy, there would be no discussion!!

Novemberblues Tue 21-Nov-17 22:38:26

Without doubt men in ladies loo with dd in a cubicle. No one can see mm rather than small child in often Vile men's loos with open cubicle!! As for finding nicer man looconfused hilarious when small child suddenly springs they need loo on you

Novemberblues Tue 21-Nov-17 22:40:03

But the strange man isn't waltzing in, he is taking his small child in

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 21-Nov-17 22:46:53

Doesn't matter if he's beamed in he's not where he should be.

The kid is not a reason to bypass basic courtesy of not entering where you shouldn't be.

And those same dads with their kids are the very ones that most the mother's on the other thread are not allowing their sons to be around In the mens.

What is so special about ladies loos that render the very men people are avoiding everywhere else , cleaner and safer confused

Inertia Wed 22-Nov-17 00:23:58

Men's loos are just as available as women's when a small child springs a loo-needing surprise on you.

Loos are separated by sex, not degrees of urgency.

The onus should be on the man to use the toilets appropriate for his sex, as the adult. He could give any other men present a warning that he's bringing a child in.

There's a much greater chance that women will be the ones having to pee/change sanitary protection etc with the cubicle door open, because we're more likely to be out alone with babies in prams . Why the hell should we have to choose between leaving babies unattended, blocking an accessible loo (unless it's a dual purpose accessible/ babychange) and having men wander in on us pants down,just because some men believe that a penis is an access-all-areas pass to wherever the hell you want to go?

blackteasplease Wed 22-Nov-17 00:36:03

I think this is another good reason for just individual cubicles, with a sink in, full length doors directly off the mainly public areas.

Urinals do need to be got rid off full stop imo . They use up space that could be for everyone and I imagine they also give rise to a lot of splashing and dirty toilet floors.

But I also agree That adult goes on the correct loo, child of whatever sex goes in with them (under 8).

ArcheryAnnie Wed 22-Nov-17 10:32:37

just because some men believe that a penis is an access-all-areas pass to wherever the hell you want to go?

Inertia this is exactly it, and perfectly put!

Gingernaut Thu 11-Jan-18 13:42:10

This thread is currently being discussed on BBC Radio 2.

tygr Thu 11-Jan-18 13:43:31

Why is this suddenly a topical news item???

I came here to look for it after hearing it on Radio 2 too.

Gingernaut Thu 11-Jan-18 13:46:55

Complete with actors reading out posts.....

NerrSnerr Thu 11-Jan-18 13:48:42

Why is this suddenly a topical news item???
I bet is a topic they’ve had on the back burner waiting for a slow news day.

Idontdowindows Thu 11-Jan-18 13:49:54

I would not want a man in the ladies at any point, ever. I've not ever seen that either. Parent in charge takes the child to the parent's toilet.

AskBasil Thu 11-Jan-18 13:51:35

It's about time that men started lobbying organisations and companies for toilets which are clean and decent and private so that they cant take some responsibility for attending to their daughter's needs when out.

Some men don't want to see other men's willies either.

FGS catch up with women. Stop knuckledragging, stop pissing all over the seats and floor, stop accepting a standard of cleanliness, hygience and privacy that is totally unacceptable and stop telling women to mop up your fucking problems and move over to solve the problems caused by men.

Get on to M&S - get a petitition going - start complaining every single time a loo you use in a public place would not be suitable to take your daughter into. Change things. Stop telling women to shoulder the problem.

AskBasil Thu 11-Jan-18 13:59:32

When was the last time you heard a call from F4J or Families need Fathers, to boycott businesses that didn't provide family loos or men's loos with a private bit for men's children?

OlennasWimple Thu 11-Jan-18 14:04:03

This thread jsut provided the phone in for today's Radio 2 Jeremy Vine show (JV is away, so it was a substitute presenter)

Complete with actors reading out a handful of contrasting posts in order to set up the discussion

shock

CuriousaboutSamphire Thu 11-Jan-18 14:05:30

And a woman saying "men flopping their winkies out" which he repeated grin

Megs4x3 Thu 11-Jan-18 14:16:03

Most places have a disabled/family toilet these days. I think most women would be shocked to see a man in the women's toilets even if he had a little girl in tow. I once saw a man hesitantly hanging around the loos with a child, clearly not knowing what to do. I offered to take her in with me but not surprisingly she didn't want to leave her Dad. Difficult situation with no easy answers. Most male loos are yucky places but I don't think a little girl will come to any harm accompanied by her Dad. My girls were fascinated the first time they saw a urinal. I guess you pick your option and stick with it. There are pros and cons to all of them - unless you can find a disabled/family toilet that is.

KanyeWesticle Thu 11-Jan-18 14:22:12

AskBasil, YES!

If the standard of cleanliness and behaviour in the mens is so awful, I wouldn't want a young boy to see it either. They need to provide a clean safe space for men and children.

That doesn't mean it's okay for a grown man to come into the ladies with his daughter.

maddiemookins16mum Thu 11-Jan-18 14:22:57

What do people think will actually happen when a chap takes his 4 year old into a ladies loo? Are women scared of being spotted having a wee?

FreddieClaryHorshieLion Thu 11-Jan-18 14:25:50

I would be ok with a father accompanying his DD / being in the stall next to me.
But I used to go to the men’s room rather often when I was a young adult / teen and that wasn’t seen as uncommon or improper.
But it seems a bit stricter in the U.K. and I understand that many women would have a problem with this. For imo very understandable reasons, btw.

Family toilets or child appropriate men’s rooms are imo clearly the better solution.

Fathers (and mothers) should start a petition for that imo...

RadioGaGoo Thu 11-Jan-18 16:33:30

Just because you might be happy to be caught in a wee in front of a bloke Maddie, doesn't mean we all are.

I've seen Mum's caught on the toilet by their toddlers opening the door unexpectedly and because of prams.

AskBasil Thu 11-Jan-18 17:00:48

"What do people think will actually happen when a chap takes his 4 year old into a ladies loo?"

Women don't need to defend their right to have privacy from men in women's toilets. We don't need to explain why men should keep the fuck out of women's spaces.

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