Dad taking dd to ladies toilet(551 Posts)
MN - help dh and I with a disagreement please.
When dd(4) needs the loo in a public place, he takes her to the ladies' loos. I told him that women don't like that and he should take her to the men's loo. Aibu or is he?
It appears disabled toilets should be called ‘more convenient toilets’. To hell with the disabled people of the world.
One day when you’re coming out of using the disabled loo because you found it more convenient, and you come face to face with a disabled person who has defecated them self while waiting for you, who is upset and in tears, I hope you are at least honest with your kids as to why someone has had to face incomparable embarrassment and a lack of dignity, all so your precious trolly full of shopping or oversized pram could accompany you to the loo.
The other woman challenged her Say saying there's very often only one disabled toilet so it shouldn't be used. She answered that most malls have more than one, so if it's occupied and a disabled person needs it they can go to the other end of the building.
Cos that works when you have mobility problems, or urgency or all of the other reasons why you are needing the disabled toilet in the first place.
Exactly, or if you’re anywhere other than a ‘mall’. Say in a supermarket or restaurant. One toilet. That’s all we have. Apparently the people who have the most options are fathers! They can use the men’s, ladies or disabled and no one will say or do anything about it.
Piers Morgan just touched on this briefly on GMB. What’s your husbands reaction OP?
A few points of interest.
1) Do you have separate gents/ladies toilets in your house?
2) In pubs, clubs, at concerts or anywhere it is really busy you will see women using men's toilets to avoid the queues.
3) An office where I once worked had 16 staff split equally M/F and two separate single toilet cubicles. Staff voted unanimously for the toilets to be unisex, and never regretted it.
4) Trains and planes have unisex toilets.
5) A disabled toilet is NOT for the exclusive use of disabled people - the regulations make this quite clear - it just means it is equipped for them to use it. Think of small establishments where the only toilet is disabled accessible, and again, the toilets on trains.
The thing is though, with unisex toilets you are aware they may be a male in there.
You don’t open the door of the ladies and expect an adult male to be standing there.
1) Do you have separate gents/ladies toilets in your house?
No. But then how many if your husbands/brothers/life partners/fathers would barge into the room while you were in the toilet.
2) In pubs, clubs, at concerts or anywhere it is really busy you will see women using men's toilets to avoid the queues
Women shouldn't be in the men's either.
3) An office where I once worked had 16 staff split equally M/F and two separate single toilet cubicles. Staff voted unanimously for the toilets to be unisex, and never regretted it
So you we're actually asked then. and everyone who joined the staff after would know they were unisex and expect
4) Trains and planes have unisex toilets
Yes but it's one loo behind a door. No one's in their with you.
5) A disabled toilet is NOT for the exclusive use of disabled people - the regulations make this quite clear - it just means it is equipped for them to use it. Think of small establishments where the only toilet is disabled accessible, and again, the toilets on trains
Again if it's just the one universal toilet then it's for everyone
If there are men's female and disabled you use the right one. And you certainly don't use the disabled toilets when out of 2 other rooms with multiple toilets in are provided. Leave that one toilet for someome who actually needs it.
I've always used mens at events, festivals, clubs when I was younger. In Italy they were all mixed when we went out in our 20s. Holes in the floor often too. I personally wouldn't care if a daddy rook his daughter in the ladies. They are all in cubicles in the women's so who cares really?
Plenty of people wouldn't mind china
But the question is more "do you think it's right to assume all women in the loop won't mind and walk in" ?
Don't you think a man walking into the ladies loo is being selfish? He's at that moment thinking to himsekf. I don't care about the fact it's a women's space. I don't care who I upset. I don't care I should not be here or what anyone thinks of me being here. I want to use the ladies so I will.
Isn't it the attitude that bothers you even if the actual issue doesn't?
I personally wouldn't care if a daddy rook his daughter in the ladies. They are all in cubicles in the women's so who cares really?
I would care because I may be using the open area of the toilets to get changed rather than using a cubicle. I may also have the pushchair in front of the cubicle door and the door open. I have the right to expect only women in a designated single sex area.
HardKnock - he still doesn't know I started this thread. I daren't tell him now...
And I still don't know if I should bring it up again. Opinions seem so divided ...
Don't tell him about the thread.
But do ask him how he would feel if when his dd gets to 12 and is at secondary school and using toilets in town or at the bus station, she came out and kept finding men in the ladies. See how he woukd feel when it's not him who is the dad in the room but someone he doesn't know in the loo witg his dd.
I'm a man with two DDs, one younger and one older. I take them into the gents as I wouldn't dream of going into the ladies.
To deal with all the objections...
1 - Yes the gents can be a bit smelly but your DH would take a DS into them so that's not a reason to not take a DD.
2 - I have never seen someone else's genitals when using the urinals. We men are generally very discreet so there's no chance of DD seeing anything untoward. And I make sure she doesn't go near them.
3 - I don't want to leave myself open to an accusation from any woman who might object to me being in the ladies. I also wouldn't want any woman using the ladies to be worried that a man might be in there.
So I would be telling your DH to take her into the gents.
If it's unisex it's unisex - you know you can encounter a person of opposite sex there, and you can choose not to use the toilet. If it's single sex toilet (with multiple cubicles) then people of opposite sex have no business there. The fact that they have daughters don't make men any less men.
This thread has been mentioned several times today on Five Live.
This one must break some sort of mumsnet record for being referred to in the media.
Some time ago I wanted to use the public bathroom in an airport waiting zone. An elderly man with 2 grandchildren, a boy and a girl, asked me very kindly if I would take the girl with me to the ladies. She was 7 or 8, and he considered it wrong to take her in the guy's bathroom, but was worried about her safety going to the ladies on her own. Of course I did, she was very well educated and polite, only needed some help with the hygienic seat-cover and of course a bit of motherly watching over her. I still think grandpa was right to ask me.
So is the general consensus that it's perfectly safe to send your young child into a bathroom with a completely strange adult?
That sounds like a better plan than accompanying them yourself. 😂
Where I work I'd happily open the disabled toilet, or run into the ladies, check nobody is in there and let a dad in with a little girl. Depends what the options are really when youre in public. It's very quiet here though, not many people to offend...
Yes I think that’ll solve all our toilet related troubles here Ilovelampandchair - if dads send daughters into the ladies with strange women and mums send sons into the men’s with strange men. Sorted.
Well to the other kids in the toilets you'd be the strange adult surely?
Are the young children in the loos meant to know your Ok? Especially when your the strange man on the ladies or the strange women in the men's.
A man should always be in the men's loos, never the women's loos, whatever the sex of the child, if the child is young enough to need accompanying to the loo.
If the men's loos are a problem, then the men should bloody sort them out, not steal the women's loos.
I did ask dd(10) what she would think if she saw a strange man in the womens. She looked at me stragely and said: nothing
Whereas my daughter would be freaked out.
She unfortunately has witnessed the harassment, sexual comments and cat calls in the street and has figured out in her short life they never come from women.
Despite having a lovely brother and father, she feels wary of strange men in certain situations. Being in a toilet and seeing a man there would be one of them.
I’ll ask this again:
Why is it okay to send your sons into the men’s toilets but not your daughters? Are you saying your daughters are more precious? Is the smell less offending to little boys? Why are you not treating your children equally?
How would you react to a man taking his young son in the ladies?
I may also have the pushchair in front of the cubicle door and the door open. I have the right to expect only women in a designated single sex area.
Incredibly value point here. If you are peeing with the door open because you have your pram with you, you don’t expect some strange man to waltz in!
This was discussed on radio Scotland today! There researchers are working hard!!
Threads are full of 'pee with the door open' as a solution to having a buggy...ive done it many times
Very good point from that poster
wtfdoipick was the original poster
We're teaching a new form of subservience. You must cover up to must keep separate because else the naughty men will get you. You aren't safe.
I want to cover up if a man is free to walk in somewhere I might be undressed!
Cubicles give you your own space
Only if they are floor to ceiling cubicles.
Why is no-one answering the question about small boys? Why are little girls so precious they can't possibly experience a male toilet but little boys are fine?
I've lost count of how many times this question has been ignored.
jcyclops most of your points refer to individual enclosed toilets so there aren't any women in a vulnerable position. (like peeing with the door open)
Just because some women say they would be ok about this, it doesn't make it ok! Most women would be somewhere between uncomfortable and very distressed - surely that's enough reason not to be so selfish!
Especially when if the child was a boy, there would be no discussion!!
Without doubt men in ladies loo with dd in a cubicle. No one can see mm rather than small child in often Vile men's loos with open cubicle!! As for finding nicer man loo hilarious when small child suddenly springs they need loo on you
But the strange man isn't waltzing in, he is taking his small child in
Doesn't matter if he's beamed in he's not where he should be.
The kid is not a reason to bypass basic courtesy of not entering where you shouldn't be.
And those same dads with their kids are the very ones that most the mother's on the other thread are not allowing their sons to be around In the mens.
What is so special about ladies loos that render the very men people are avoiding everywhere else , cleaner and safer
Men's loos are just as available as women's when a small child springs a loo-needing surprise on you.
Loos are separated by sex, not degrees of urgency.
The onus should be on the man to use the toilets appropriate for his sex, as the adult. He could give any other men present a warning that he's bringing a child in.
There's a much greater chance that women will be the ones having to pee/change sanitary protection etc with the cubicle door open, because we're more likely to be out alone with babies in prams . Why the hell should we have to choose between leaving babies unattended, blocking an accessible loo (unless it's a dual purpose accessible/ babychange) and having men wander in on us pants down,just because some men believe that a penis is an access-all-areas pass to wherever the hell you want to go?
I think this is another good reason for just individual cubicles, with a sink in, full length doors directly off the mainly public areas.
Urinals do need to be got rid off full stop imo . They use up space that could be for everyone and I imagine they also give rise to a lot of splashing and dirty toilet floors.
But I also agree That adult goes on the correct loo, child of whatever sex goes in with them (under 8).
just because some men believe that a penis is an access-all-areas pass to wherever the hell you want to go?
Inertia this is exactly it, and perfectly put!
This thread is currently being discussed on BBC Radio 2.
Why is this suddenly a topical news item???
I came here to look for it after hearing it on Radio 2 too.
Why is this suddenly a topical news item???
I bet is a topic they’ve had on the back burner waiting for a slow news day.
I would not want a man in the ladies at any point, ever. I've not ever seen that either. Parent in charge takes the child to the parent's toilet.
It's about time that men started lobbying organisations and companies for toilets which are clean and decent and private so that they cant take some responsibility for attending to their daughter's needs when out.
Some men don't want to see other men's willies either.
FGS catch up with women. Stop knuckledragging, stop pissing all over the seats and floor, stop accepting a standard of cleanliness, hygience and privacy that is totally unacceptable and stop telling women to mop up your fucking problems and move over to solve the problems caused by men.
Get on to M&S - get a petitition going - start complaining every single time a loo you use in a public place would not be suitable to take your daughter into. Change things. Stop telling women to shoulder the problem.
When was the last time you heard a call from F4J or Families need Fathers, to boycott businesses that didn't provide family loos or men's loos with a private bit for men's children?
This thread jsut provided the phone in for today's Radio 2 Jeremy Vine show (JV is away, so it was a substitute presenter)
Complete with actors reading out a handful of contrasting posts in order to set up the discussion
And a woman saying "men flopping their winkies out" which he repeated
Most places have a disabled/family toilet these days. I think most women would be shocked to see a man in the women's toilets even if he had a little girl in tow. I once saw a man hesitantly hanging around the loos with a child, clearly not knowing what to do. I offered to take her in with me but not surprisingly she didn't want to leave her Dad. Difficult situation with no easy answers. Most male loos are yucky places but I don't think a little girl will come to any harm accompanied by her Dad. My girls were fascinated the first time they saw a urinal. I guess you pick your option and stick with it. There are pros and cons to all of them - unless you can find a disabled/family toilet that is.
If the standard of cleanliness and behaviour in the mens is so awful, I wouldn't want a young boy to see it either. They need to provide a clean safe space for men and children.
That doesn't mean it's okay for a grown man to come into the ladies with his daughter.
What do people think will actually happen when a chap takes his 4 year old into a ladies loo? Are women scared of being spotted having a wee?
I would be ok with a father accompanying his DD / being in the stall next to me.
But I used to go to the men’s room rather often when I was a young adult / teen and that wasn’t seen as uncommon or improper.
But it seems a bit stricter in the U.K. and I understand that many women would have a problem with this. For imo very understandable reasons, btw.
Family toilets or child appropriate men’s rooms are imo clearly the better solution.
Fathers (and mothers) should start a petition for that imo...
Just because you might be happy to be caught in a wee in front of a bloke Maddie, doesn't mean we all are.
I've seen Mum's caught on the toilet by their toddlers opening the door unexpectedly and because of prams.
"What do people think will actually happen when a chap takes his 4 year old into a ladies loo?"
Women don't need to defend their right to have privacy from men in women's toilets. We don't need to explain why men should keep the fuck out of women's spaces.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, quick, and means you can join in the discussion, watch threads, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Get started »
Please login first.