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Dad taking dd to ladies toilet

(551 Posts)
AdaHopper Sat 18-Nov-17 21:05:55

MN - help dh and I with a disagreement please.

When dd(4) needs the loo in a public place, he takes her to the ladies' loos. I told him that women don't like that and he should take her to the men's loo. Aibu or is he?

RunningOutOfCharge Sat 18-Nov-17 21:07:52

he is

I've never seen a man do this before.....ever

clary Sat 18-Nov-17 21:08:54

He is out of order. I do recall DH saying DD needed to get used to going into the ladies by herself if he was out without me, as men's los can be grim... she was older than four tho.

At four she is going to have to go in the men's. Best thing is to find a nicer one? Or at my local shopping centre they have a family loo which seems a good idea.

pickleypockley Sat 18-Nov-17 21:09:12

Difficult one really as yes I wouldn't want a man coming g into the ladies, but the men's have open urinals so he might not want dd seeing that? At risk of a Munster bashing I would say use the disabled confused

dementedpixie Sat 18-Nov-17 21:09:13

He should go to the men's with her

ThroughThickAndThin01 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:10:01

He is wrong.

pickleypockley Sat 18-Nov-17 21:10:34

Mumsnet, bloody phone, you are not all munsters smile

Sofabitch Sat 18-Nov-17 21:10:51

We just need to ditch the group toilets really. Its a totally weird concept.

TheDevilMadeMeDoIt Sat 18-Nov-17 21:11:07

I understand the conflict, but I would rather a father in the ladies - individual cubicles - than a four year old girl being taken into the gents with no idea what she might see. (And I've wandered into the gents accidentally a couple of times, they're not nice places! Smelly, grubby.....)

Readermumof3 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:12:23

What is it with all these toilet issues lately? hmm There’s no way in hell my DH would ever set foot in a ladies loo. When DD was small he’d take her to a baby change loo or the gents in a dept store cafe if nearby.

Helspopje Sat 18-Nov-17 21:12:28

Definitely prefer a young girl.in the ladies than going into the men's with open urinals

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:12:47

sofabitch

Its not a weird concept at all

I much prefer the individual non sexed cubicles with their own sink that many of the newer shopping centres etc have

CarcerDun Sat 18-Nov-17 21:14:07

I still have memories of being taken into men’s loos as a child shudders. They are horrible. But mostly the memories are sound and smell as DF has his hands over my eyes for the majority of the time.

Notevilstepmother Sat 18-Nov-17 21:14:54

It wouldn’t bother me and it’s probably much nicer for her than seeing/smelling men weeing at the urinals.

I do think we should have family toilets or something for these situations.

However it’s not like women take their clothes off at the basins or anything.

Maplestaple Sat 18-Nov-17 21:15:09

I can see this from both sides, it wouldn't bother me but I know how it could upset others.

I wouldn't want my DS going in the men's either.

Maplestaple Sat 18-Nov-17 21:15:30

DD not DS

Pixie2015 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:15:58

I would prefer to see a man take his daughter into ladies if no family/disabled toilet available don’t think any young child needs urinal or stinky cubicle exposure

Intercom Sat 18-Nov-17 21:16:23

I’ve never seen anyone do that. It’s usual for the adult to go in the correct toilets, and if the child is under about 8 they go in the same one as the parent.

Notevilstepmother Sat 18-Nov-17 21:16:33

Most toilets have signs warning that there might be male cleaners anyway.

converseandjeans Sat 18-Nov-17 21:17:14

Agree with devil I would have no issue with seeing a man in the ladies loo with a small child needing a wee. I really wouldn't want my DD at the age of 4 heading into the mens loos. They stink and blokes have their k***s out!! I would say perhaps compromise would be to send her in alone and stand by the door and wait for her?

Gileswithachainsaw Sat 18-Nov-17 21:17:16

He should take her to the men's. It's what dads and grandad have had to Do since well... years and years.

When she's a bit older she can go to the ladies on her own.

RunningOutOfCharge Sat 18-Nov-17 21:17:30

what will a 4 year old 'see' in the mens toilet that has you all recoiling in horror?

Coconutsgreen Sat 18-Nov-17 21:17:41

I understand the conflict, but I would rather a father in the ladies - individual cubicles - than a four year old girl being taken into the gents with no idea what she might see. (And I've wandered into the gents accidentally a couple of times, they're not nice places! Smelly, grubby.....)

Totally agree with this.

I wouldn't be offended at all.if a man took his little girl in to use the ladies.

Believeitornot Sat 18-Nov-17 21:18:03

Men’s toilets are grim. I wouldn’t want my dd going in. I’d rather dh found a disabled loo.

Pennywhistle Sat 18-Nov-17 21:19:19

DH always took DD into the gents without incident.

Moanyoldcow Sat 18-Nov-17 21:19:27

I always say the same on these posts and accept that my view is not the norm, but I don't care at all what sex/gender people I share toilets with so long as there are cubicles.

I'd have no issue with a dad and daughter in the ladies toilets.

Gileswithachainsaw Sat 18-Nov-17 21:21:44

Well then they aren't ladies toilets if being used by men taking their dds.

Stop frequenting dodgy places
Know your toilets
Cover eyes if necessary hmm
But a coffee and use costa or something

Dp has taken young Dds onto the mens no problem.

ItsAHardKn0ckLife1 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:21:50

I posted a thread not too long ago re a man changing his grandsons nappy in the ladies. There were changing facilities available in the men’s, they just chose to use the ladies instead. I questioned him and got shouted down. I was told in no uncertain terms on MN that I was totally unreasonable.

IMO men should not be in the ladies. At all.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:22:43

itsahard

I remember that thread

It got quite....heated

Toffeelatteplease Sat 18-Nov-17 21:23:06

Mumsnet has some really weird opinions on stuff like this. Men arent safe so you can't have a man in the woman's toilet so let's send the DD4 into the male toilet where all the unsafe people with penises are.hmm

Your DH is quite normal. FWIW I would consider either way round fine.

PurpleCrowbar Sat 18-Nov-17 21:23:09

I really don't think there's going to be much on show from men using the urinals, tbh. They aren't all waving massive hosepipes about ostentatiously, just penis out of trousers to pee, backs to room, nothing to see here.

Of course it should be fine to take a 4yo girl in to use a cubicle. Really not helpful to characterise men's toilets as some appalling no go area. They might be a bit smelly I suppose.

Spam88 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:23:26

I’ve seen men doing this, doesn’t bother me at all, I can understand then not wanting to take their daughters in the men’s where there’s people using the urinal.

RunningOutOfCharge Sat 18-Nov-17 21:23:48

are people suggesting able bodied people use the disabled toilets here?

Toffeelatteplease Sat 18-Nov-17 21:24:39

It's only using the disabled when you're not disabled that's wrong imo

FlashTheSloth Sat 18-Nov-17 21:25:28

HIBU. I've never ever seen a man in a ladies toilet and it's not appropriate for them to be in there. They take their DDs in their toilets until they are old enough to go alone (or use the disabled). You don't see women taking boys into the mens because that's their correct toilet.

SkintAsASkintThing Sat 18-Nov-17 21:25:53

Wouldn't bother me.......there isn't anything to see in ladies loos.

And women have been diving into mens loos on nights out etc, don't get why it's seen as an issue on MN. hmm

ItsAHardKn0ckLife1 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:25:57

Yes Rufus, I was told I was raising my DS to be a rapist hmm confused

🤷🏻‍♀️ cannot understand some people’s logic!

rcit Sat 18-Nov-17 21:26:22

I can understand why a man would not want his 4yo to sit on a bog in the men's. Men use them for shitting and generally men's toilets are stinking and foul. That said, a grown man has no business in the ladies - very bad behaviour. TBH in his position I'd take a potty for the 4yo

BelafonteRavenclaw Sat 18-Nov-17 21:26:49

Men go to the men’s. Women go to the women’s. Thems the rules.

ScipioAfricanus Sat 18-Nov-17 21:28:13

I was taken to the men’s toilets when I was too little to go on my own by my dad and it hasn’t scarred me for life. The ladies toilet is for women and I’d be unimpressed to see a man in it.

TuftedLadyGrotto Sat 18-Nov-17 21:29:05

I saw a man do this recently and I didn't like it. Not only that, but his daughter had cubicle door open (fine) and generally he went for a wee standing up with door still open.

Dh has always taken dd to the gents.

HotelEuphoria Sat 18-Nov-17 21:30:25

Not this one again, isn't this the third such toilet thread in three days?

TuftedLadyGrotto Sat 18-Nov-17 21:30:26

Men use them for shitting

Pretty sure women do too.

Notsooriginalwerther Sat 18-Nov-17 21:30:36

RunningOutOfCharge I think it’s in regards to open urinals and maybe that men’s toilets are sometimes a bit grubbier than women’s? not in all cases though as most toilets have regular cleaners etc. But I agree that either use the disabled/baby change units or ladies. IMO I would rather my dp took my dd into the ladies toilet with separate cubicles than into the men’s loos.

Ellapaella Sat 18-Nov-17 21:31:49

I wouldn’t care if a man came in to the ladies with his daughter. We have single cubicles and it’s not like you can see anyone on the toilet, unlike the men’s where the little girl will see men using the urinals.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sat 18-Nov-17 21:32:45

what will a 4 year old 'see' in the mens toilet that has you all recoiling in horror?

Well today the cleaner in my local gents loos found a junkie jacking up in the morning and a couple fucking in the afternoon.

The same stuff doesn’t tend to happen in the ladies due to more frequent use

ScipioAfricanus Sat 18-Nov-17 21:32:49

Well I think the little girls will just have to cope with the toilets potentially being a bit dirtier. As regards urinals I think unless the dads take their daughters to the toilet in slow motion they will be fine.

MissDuke Sat 18-Nov-17 21:33:39

My dh would never do this and I have not once saw any man do it. I personally think it is bizarre that he thinks he has any right to enter womens toilets. My dh would go into baby changing if it has a loo or go to a toilet that has just one cubicle rather than a row of urinals, like in a cafe or whatever.

I realise that lots of readers will think I am crazy, but it is just my opinion!

C0untDucku1a Sat 18-Nov-17 21:35:14

The ‘recoiling in horror’ for me would be the Smell. Mens toilets are beyond disgusting.

TuftedLadyGrotto Sat 18-Nov-17 21:37:14

I once discovered a poo on the floor in a cubicle of the ladies toilet at work. I was a teacher. Not just men that have grim toilet habits.

Toffeelatteplease Sat 18-Nov-17 21:37:58

Don't use the fucking disabled loos just because your prissy over which gender parent is with a child. I really boils my piss

There are genuine reasons why adults and children with sn need to use a disabled loo. If you've ever had to change your child on the floor of one you'd understand why the least people using it the better. Or why when DS gets very little notice of needing the loo (or is at risk of soiling with any delay) why he shouldn't have to wait for dad and two female kids.

Yet it will be those that don't approve of the wrong gender being in the wrong bathroom that is upset when DS now 10 comes carreering usually into the ladies (usually cos I need to garentee a cubicle) at speed with very little regard for anyone in his path because the disabled look is not free.

AdaHopper Sat 18-Nov-17 21:39:08

For context - we are watching our ds (7) in a play where we have little choice. He took her whilst I was gathering our stuff. A potty is not really something dd would use at her age.

Split opinions it seems.

Rudi44 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:40:55

It's such a tricky one, I can understand why he would do it. In a ladies loo at least they are in cubicles, in a mans loo he walks in with daughter and a bunch of men are at a urinal .

Why my DD was tiny she was out with her dad and needed a nappy change in Asda but the changing facility was typically in the ladies loo. The staff actually suggested he hand her over to a stranger to change ( member of staff) in the ladies loo.

pisacake Sat 18-Nov-17 21:41:51

It is a hate crime to object to this. The police will be around to throw you into jail shortly.

SomewhatIdiosyncratic Sat 18-Nov-17 21:42:17

DH takes the DSs into the men's toilets. They're usually too small to reach the urinals so normally use the toilet as a girl would. If men's toilets are so terrible, shouldn't that mean fathers should take any offspring into the ladies? Or are young girls in the company of their father far more vulnerable than the same age group of young boys confused

It's the sex of the parent, not the sex of the child.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus Sat 18-Nov-17 21:45:36

What do you think op?

Should we get rid of all sex segregated areas, do you think that would be the answer?

AdaHopper Sat 18-Nov-17 21:48:07

Actually, I think that would make things so much simpler. Without urinals though smile

justilou1 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:48:19

Maybe he doesn't want his kid exposed to men flapping their willies around the urinals? I wouldn't either. He's between a rock and a hard place.

chocolatecakeatmidnight Sat 18-Nov-17 21:48:25

Maybe DH could wait outside the ladies loo whilst DD is in there. if she needs help, (I know age 4 can be tricky age for using a toilet alone) she could call for him? I doubt many women would object to a father coming in to the ladies to help his daughter who needed help.

shhhfastasleep Sat 18-Nov-17 21:48:59

As much as I hate misuse of disabled loos - I have MS - I would rather he took her in there in the absence of family loo than in the men’s.

Gileswithachainsaw Sat 18-Nov-17 21:50:18

It's simple really.

Of a toilet is dirty ask some one to clean it

Women shoot up too.

You wouldn't know the other one was any Better or worse unless you had been in there and why would you be in the other toilet

The ladies toilet is the ladies toilet. It's not ladies and anyone who doesn't want to use the "smelly men's"

When people do that the tkukets are no lo get any safer than the men's but guess what? ! The women have no other option. The men do, once you have set the trend to use ours and fill it full of people who don't wanna use the men's you can bugger off back to the men's and the women's is no longer the safer space it once was.

Find an attendant or staff member like we would have to do if the ladies was disgusting .

DeadGood Sat 18-Nov-17 21:50:20

"It’s usual for the adult to go in the correct toilets, and if the child is under about 8 they go in the same one as the parent."

That only works if the men's and ladies loos are of equal cleanliness and layout. They aren't.

I suspect you have only ever really noticed women taking boys into the ladies, and assuming that it would work the other way around too. But Men's toilets really are grim and not always suitable (eg. single cubicle not in unusable state)

chocolatecakeatmidnight Sat 18-Nov-17 21:50:34

The other option would be accessible toilet. Before I get pounced on, I am myself registered as disabled and use a mobility aid to get around. I would not begrudge a small child needing to use one for safety issues.

HeadDreamer Sat 18-Nov-17 21:50:52

What’s the problem with young girls and the male toilet? Both DDs been to the men’s with DH. Ofc 4yo should go to the men’s with her grandad

singadream Sat 18-Nov-17 21:51:10

My dh takes them to the men's loo, or the disabled loo.

chocolatecakeatmidnight Sat 18-Nov-17 21:51:15

needing to use an accessible toilet, i mean

Lostwithinthehills Sat 18-Nov-17 21:52:08

I don’t think this is a tricky question at all. The adult goes into the toilet designated for their use by sex, their child goes with them. If it becomes common practice for men to go into toilets designated for women we will end up with men’s toilets only being used by men and women’s toilets being used by men and women. How is that fair? Most parents take the opportunity to use the toilet when their children go so not only will men be present in women’s toilets they will be using them too. Many pp have complained about how smelly and dirty men’s toilets are, won’t women’s toilets end up the same if men regularly use them too? Women should have the right to use toilet facilities with the expectation that the only women and young children will be alongside them.

Angelalley Sat 18-Nov-17 21:52:30

Well said tofee
I do wish people would not suggest using disabled facilities every time to solve a problem.

LapdanceShoeshine Sat 18-Nov-17 21:53:42

In Amsterdam airport this week there was a dad with a small daughter in the cubicle next to me & I thought good on him!

I think he felt awkward - he maintained a conversation with her the whole time, so that we would all know he was there, & when they emerged he studiously avoided eye contact, but I thought it was definitely much nicer for a small girl not to have to go past a row of men using urinals in a (probably much more smelly) men's loo.

.

shushpenfold Sat 18-Nov-17 21:54:37

On a slightly lighter note, I still smile when I think of how long and how many sports club managers it took to explain to one very lovely old gentleman that it was completely inappropriate for him to take his dgd into the ladies changing room for her swim change. He just couldn’t understand why if she was the one changing and swimming, why she shouldn’t use it.....and of course he had to come too, as she’s really little. After the initial shock of the chap walking in on 3 of us stark naked, we all saw the funny side and we were all dressed and could have cooked lunch in the time it took them to explain it, in ever decreasing circles

On the matter of the loo, I think your dh has to stay well out of opposite gender areas. Take the Dd into the gents or send her in alone if she’s able.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:56:42

Men go to the gents with small child

Women go to to the ladies with small child

Lostwithinthehills Sat 18-Nov-17 21:56:57

Also it’s interesting how many people are complaining about how disgusting men’s toilets are. There is a significant proportion of people on mumsnet who seem to believe strongly in unisex toilets but now it seems we should expect them to be disgusting because men will have access to all of them.

LapdanceShoeshine Sat 18-Nov-17 21:57:31

& for what it's worth I'm an OAP, & stridently against the transwomen determination to use any loo they damn well want (ie ours angry)

notjustbaconbutties Sat 18-Nov-17 21:58:16

I saw a man doing this recently at the theatre. Maybe it was the OP's DH, or maybe it's a new trend. Never seen it before.

Gileswithachainsaw Sat 18-Nov-17 21:58:44

Yy lost
How is unisex the answer when it's full if men when the whole reason men people wanna use the ladies is safety and cleanliness

Either it's the ladies or men's or it's not.

Fuckit2017 Sat 18-Nov-17 21:59:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cherish123 Sat 18-Nov-17 22:00:51

DH is wrong. That is weird- I have never seen that.

NotSoSimpleSally Sat 18-Nov-17 22:01:06

When my eldest dd was younger and was on one of her first and only unsupervised visits with her father, he proudly told me that while at the pub she needed a wee, but he couldn't face the thought of taking her into the men's loos with him, instead he just asked a kind female stranger to take her for a wee in the ladies instead angry

Valerrie Sat 18-Nov-17 22:01:56

As a wheelchair user with a chronic bowel illness, I find it so disappointing that people are suggesting that the able bodied should use a disabled toilet. How sad sad

Gileswithachainsaw Sat 18-Nov-17 22:05:15

In fairness not

My dds and I have often helped kids turn taps on or get soap or even hold doors as I know there is an awkward stage probably between 8 and 10 where they are too old to use the opposite sexs' rest room ejtg their dad but perhaps need a little assistance of the sinks are high or the lay out is a bit awkward.

Not that it's really on to be asking strangers to take kids to the loo.

Lostwithinthehills Sat 18-Nov-17 22:06:59

Fuckit2017 firstly almost all public toilet cubicles are not floor to ceiling so they are unsuitable for unisex arrangements. Secondly it may be nicer for the dd to use the women’s toilets but it is not nicer for all the other women and girls also using them to have any old man just wandering in.
Which toilet does the man go into when it’s him that needs the loo when his daughter is with him?

FlashTheSloth Sat 18-Nov-17 22:08:47

I'm a bit fed up with people saying there are cubicles so what's the issue. You can't be that dense to realise not all cubicles have sides down to the floor and nearly everyone has camera phones these days...

Someone was done at my local leisure centre because the whole changing area is mixed sex with separate cubicles, none of which go down to the floor and someone was videoing underneath the cubicles around him.

FlashTheSloth Sat 18-Nov-17 22:09:36

X post lost.

Toffeelatteplease Sat 18-Nov-17 22:12:04

FWIW

And having ended up in a few mens loos on occasion. They aren't disgusting or if they are then probably the females is too.

Personally I think unisex loos are brilliant. But mostly because of peoples inflexibility when people happen to end up in the wrong gendered look.

^ I would not begrudge a small child needing to use one for safety issues.^

There's nothing inherently unsafe about a dad taking female child into a female loo (or the mens) so there is no excuse to use a disabled.

I have no problem ending up in the ladies or gents with if someone who genuinely needs it is in the disabled. I bitterly object when it's a small family who quite easily could use either gendered loo. I really hate trying to clean up a by now tween sized son in a single cubicle because "gender issues" or they needed the space.

FruitCider Sat 18-Nov-17 22:14:19

* *It's only using the disabled when you're not disabled that's wrong imo

Oh... I quite often do that with my child as trying to fit a woman and a child in a tiny cubicle and trying to open and shut the door is very hard, especially if they have the sanitary bin on the same side as the door opening. confused to be honest if they contain baby change facilities as well as being disabled loos I thought that was ok for a quick child’s wee! Seems I am mistaken!

FastandLoose Sat 18-Nov-17 22:16:08

My dh takes our now five year old into the men’s. Obviously. Never come across anything else. She completely unscarred.

Fuckit2017 Sat 18-Nov-17 22:16:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WildBluebelles Sat 18-Nov-17 22:16:33

If the disabled loos double up as changing facilities, I think it is okay to use in this situation because they are not only for disabled users but also for changing.

YeahILoveSummer Sat 18-Nov-17 22:17:17

Wouldn't mind if a man took his 4 year old daughter into the ladies. Men's toilets can be bit grim hmm

FruitCider Sat 18-Nov-17 22:17:36

To make it clear, if it’s just a disabled toilet I wouldn’t ever use it, but most where I live double up. I don’t know why I’m admitting to using them. It’s going to end badly isn’t it?

notangelinajolie Sat 18-Nov-17 22:17:50

The gents is no place for a little girl.

Fuckit2017 Sat 18-Nov-17 22:18:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PurpleCrowbar Sat 18-Nov-17 22:18:40

If men's toilets are so revolting that it's completely unacceptable for a father to use them with his small child, then that needs fixing.

The answer is not for men to barge into the women's toilets.

If the father had a 4yo son, should he then take him into the women's toilets, because the men's are too awful for small children to use?

& if they genuinely are that horrid, maybe that's the problem that needs fixing.

Not that there are horrible, smelly, scary toilets for men & anyone who doesn't fancy using them gets to use the women's because they are so much nicer.

Toffeelatteplease Sat 18-Nov-17 22:19:27

I'm a bit fed up with people saying there are cubicles so what's the issue. You can't be that dense to realise not all cubicles have sides down to the floor and nearly everyone has camera phones these days...

But why is a dad with a small child a high likely to be a perpetrator? He's not not really. Therefore why is there a problem with the poor already embaressed guy being in the ladies. There really isn't.

Gileswithachainsaw Sat 18-Nov-17 22:19:47

And nor will the ladies be when the very men making the mess are in the ladies with their children.

You do realise that junkies alcoholics and willy wavers have kids right hmm

Shodan Sat 18-Nov-17 22:20:46

I have no problem with a dad taking his small daughter into the ladies' loo, but then I don't do anything in the communal area of the ladies' loo other than wash my hands and possibly give a cursory glance to hair/clothing/make-up.

I would certainly rather they use the ladies' than the gents'.

I remember one poor dad agonising over this exact dilemma outside the loos at Madame Tussauds, so I offered to take his daughter into the ladies for him, which he was very grateful for.

Fuckit2017 Sat 18-Nov-17 22:22:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WeAllHaveWings Sat 18-Nov-17 22:23:56

I took ds into the gents when he was 3. It was in a small local Tesco and the ladies were out of order. The security guard checked there was no one in the gents and kept a lookout while we quickly popped in.

I am no snowflake, but the stench of stale, strong urine was unbelievable you could almost taste it in the air. The floor was damp and tacky. I was scared to touch anything! It was grim.

I don’t blame him for not wanting to take his dd in gents like that, but him going into the ladies is not the solution.

Fuckit2017 Sat 18-Nov-17 22:28:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gileswithachainsaw Sat 18-Nov-17 22:30:11

Well for long as the disabled or the ladies are the solution they wont be sorted out will they.

Not while parents are turning on eachother as opposed to the relevant bodies.

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