To ask if it's naughty or autism?

[ClaryFray]

Hi all,

Please don't flame me, this has been a very stressful week. And i don't know where to turn. And I'm struggling to cope. I need advice because I'm terrified of doing something wrong.

My DS (8) has always been an a happy child. Not overly naughty. But recently, he's changed.

It started last year when he was diagnosed with dyslexia. The educational psychologist came in to see him, he's working a year behind in English, with his reading level being that of a four year old. He has always struggled academically, and he hasn't always been a model pupil. However just child like issue.

Over the last few months I've noticed him becoming more angry and frustrated, we tried to refer him to cahms but they refused to see him based on it being school aniexty issue. The frequency of the tantrums increased and he became violent at home. Hitting out a few times, however I became a bit stricter and these issues seemed to ease. Or lesson in frequency.

Recently his behaviour has changed for the worse. He has been sent home from school because of his outbursts for the last five days, Monday was because a Birthday child was giving out sweets and DS didn't get a packet. He had a meltdown resulting in him running around the school away from teachers, and me being called to collect him.

Tuesday was a very bad day with behaviour slipping from the start. He keeps removing himself from the lesson, and refusing to go back. Crying and crawling around the floor. I went in early to collect him.

I have tried to speak to DS however he just clams up. He says that some boys in his class are bullying him by calling him a cry baby. I have spoken to the school about this and they say it isn't happening. Although there was an issue where these children pushed DS over and kicked him a few weeks back, then lied about it. They confessed the next day.

I took DS to the drs because the tantrums are back at home, refusing to sleep, screaming at me, kicking out, and just very angry. I can't cope. I have no support and I'm getting depressed. I feel like a terrible mother.

Does it sound like autism? The school are saying he's probably on the spectrum due to social issues, looks right threw people when they talk, difficultly retaining information, and inability to see an accident. School can't discipline him because it isn't worth the fight. They say he shouldn't be in mainstream school.

My mum thinks that DS is naughty. And that I am not consistent enough. And that the school not sanctioning him has caused this.

I am depressed and feeling like it's all my fault. Help.

Can autism or something similar present in this way or is my DS a problem child, and I've failed as a parent.

[EatTheChocolateTeapot]

You have certainly not failed. Poor DS he sounds distressed. Could you may be havea chat with the health visitor or is he too old (I think they see older children when there is potential SN)?

[McFarts]

Firstly you are not a bad Mum, its clear from your post that your care a great deal.

School! they say they dont feel he belong in a mainstream school, but what are they actually doing to support him?

Your DS could indeed be on the spectrum, however this could also be a confidence issue, he is obviously struggling to keep up in school, and if they arnt learning him strategies to help and support him .

What did your GP think? have they referred him?

[Ttbb]

It sounds more like he's having a very hard time at school and the school is doing fuck all to help him exacerbating the issue.

[RemainOptimistic]

Why did birthday child not give DS a packet? Not to excuse the behaviour but that's certainly a reason for anyone at any age to get upset, how unfair.

If he's been kicked to the ground by a group and then it was covered up could that not be the tip of the iceberg? School is stressful even when all goes smoothly and it sounds like there's more going on here.

[Bumdishcloths]

Sounds like most of his behavioural issues would impose with support from the school... they sound a bit crap to be honest!

[MargoLovebutter]

Being dyslexic and unable to keep up in class can be really upsetting for a child.

What measures has the school put in place to help your DS? Does he have an IEP?

Is there anything else going on that could be causing him anxiety at the moment?

Does he do any extra-curricular activities that he enjoys?

[Bumdishcloths]

*improve

[Ttbb]

Have the school suggested having his tested? If not you need to bring it up-they are using the 'possible autism' as an excuse not to do their job.

[ClaryFray]

The school have offered to refer him but said that it may be refused from the school. They have been supporting him academically with various interventions. He is on a school based plan, and we meet every 6 weeks to discuss him. The last meeting went okay, and was only two weeks ago.

He does after school club once a week and he did do a Kung fu club which he was happily attending for a year, until they removed him from the register this week due to his not wanting to participate. And getting upset and running around. So he's lost that.

He's not a confident boy, however, his behaviour is very strange. It doesn't matter what I take away toys, and sweets, he doesn't seem to care. He gets to a point and can't control himself.

Drs went through a list and I felt like more and more sounded like DS. However my mum has called me since then and has told me that it's naughtiness.

[MargoLovebutter]

Did you speak to the Kung Fu club about giving him a second chance, if he has been attending very happily for a year? It sounds a bit draconian to exclude him because of one week of disappointing behaviour.

IMO, kids aren't usually 'naughty' for no reason. From what you've said he doesn't sound naughty to me, he sounds really angry and unhappy.

Is there anything else going on that could be unsettling him? Is everything at home exactly as it always has been?

[ClaryFray]

Everything at home is the same as it's always been, nothing has changed.

[LittleMyLikesSnuffkin]

Hard to say but my son who is autistic and has possible ADHD behaved in a very similar way when he was still in mainstream school. He was younger than your son but that's neither here nor there. He got his ECHP which took months to put together and got a place in a school for SEN and has thrived. But the mainstream school he was at couldn't wait to get rid of him pushed to get him the help he needed.

What is your son's school doing to help him other than sending him home to you to deal with? They can't keep that up forever he needs an education one way or another. If they don't think he is cut out for mainstream what are they going to do about it? You haven't failed your son. By the sounds of it you're the one person fighting his corner. Everyone else needs to pull their heads out their bums and help you and him get the help he needs now.

[MargoLovebutter]

Have you had a meeting with the school Head ClaryFray? What does he/she have to say about the support in place for your DS?

Is there another adult involved in your DS's life, other than your Mum, who has any thoughts about what might be going on or could support you with the school?

[FluffyWhiteTowels]

Can the school help support another to camhs as his behaviour has now extended to home?

Get a Ehcp plan?

Has he had a physical health check recently? Eye test? Just to rule those out.

You're not a bad mother. You sound like an extremely caring and kind and loving mother. Shame your own can't look at alternative reasons. You need some agreed outcomes so that he is able to gain education and support for his future plans. I know he's only 8 but it's never too early

[Bonesy1]

Yes, the school need to refer to CAMHS, you sound like a loving caring Mum who is not being supported by school. Speak to health visitor or ask to speak to school nursing team

[Rabblemum]

Get your child tested for Autism is soon as you can as it could be the problem. It sounds like school is all too much for him and he’s finding ways to get out of the situation in any way he can.

You sound like a great, caring mum, you’ve gone into detail about your son’s behaviour, you’re not just blaming the teachers and you’re concerned about bullying.

My son is slightly Autistic, very bright, reads well but writes like a 7 year old at 14. Apart from his first school they’ve all been pretty dreadful, they told me not to get him tested. I asked about dyslexia as it runs in both his dad’s and my family and they refused, his help was so patronising he gave the special teachers hell that later found out he wasn’t suited to. Learn to be very confident or even boslshy with these people as they’ll see a chink in you and blame you, it’s the culture and means they don’t have to spend extra money on your child.

CHAMS were OK eventually after I rang them every day in tears for weeks. Of all people it was social services who got my son tested. I now homeschool my son and I had to give up my job, but he’s no longer threatening suiside.

Schools deny bullying, dyslexia and any problems for their own reasons, it’s evil with forms.

You’ll need your inner bitch and lots of websites about the law (as schools and local authorities don’t worry about it too much) before you get bogged down in self blame. Join Facebook groups as you’ll speak to people who understand your situation. Enjoy your son and boost his confidence out of school as in school it’s probably being wreaked.

Good luck and you’re not to blame,

[KimmySchmidt1]

Have you tried talking to him about how he feels and in particular whether he thinks he has any way of controlling himself at all? I think he is old enough to have a really honest and frank grown up conversation about his problems.

I am not someone who thinks that children should be ignored and hidden from and adults should conclude things about them behind their backs. Explain what is going on, and ask him if he feels that it is impossible to control himself and explain that this might be an illness for which he needs to go to a special school.

But to be honest, the fact he has improved at home and is still flipping out at school does not sound very consistent with autism - you would expect him not to be able to tone it down at home either.

Also, rather than being stricter with him, have you tried expressing to him how dreadful he is behaving and suggesting ways for him to learn to control himself?

Sometimes having no personal control over his life (what he eats, what he wears, having to hold your hand etc) can lead to anger management problems and tantrums - in the same way that if adults are micro-managed and constantly nagged it is super annoying. Often parents do this out of concern for safety etc but it can be very counterproductive. No idea if this is you, obviously, but just a thought.

[enterthedragon]

When you have been asked to collect him early have the school provided to with a letter outlining why he has been excluded, how long for and giving you details of how to appeal the decision to exclude him etc? If the answer is no then this is an illegal exclusion and you should challenge the school. The ipsea or SOS SEN websites have good information about all things concerning SEN.

With regards to whether or not Autism can present in the manner in which you describe then the answer is that Autism can present in many different ways and can include the things that you have described. My son was very similar at school, at home, in the park, in shops but oddly enough not at the childminders. It became clear to us that with each passing year the difference between him and his peers was widening and his self esteem plummeted, he was ostracised and victimised by his peers and discriminated against.

The school have said that your ds shouldn't be in mainstream school and so are basically admitting that they are not meeting your son's needs so what are they going to do about it? Support should be based on needs not on a diagnosis and the evidence suggests that more support is needed.

It sounds like you need to push for further assessments. Look on your LA local offer website to find out what your LA Autism pathway is and start there, as a parent you can apply for an ehcp needs assessment on the basis that your ds has or may have SEN. Again ipsea and SOS SEN has information and model letters that can help you.

And last but by no means least, you have not failed as a parent, don't ever think that. For children with SEN there will be times when everything runs fairly smoothly and there will be times when difficulties arise very suddenly and you have no way of predicting when this may happen.

I feel like I've just written an essay, didn't mean for my reply to be this long

[Davespecifico]

He needs a really good thorough assessment. Ask gp for advice.
I think a mainstream school that’s on the ball and has staff with the right expertise could support him.

[ittakes2]

I'm just wanted to say it sounds like he is stressed rather than naughty. He's acting out because he can not cope for some reason. There has been lots of good advice on this thread - I just wanted to add - have you had his hearing tested? There have been a few boys at our school with 'naughty' behaviour but they actually have glue ear. Glue ear can make a child very stressed as they are straining to hear and it gets very tiring for them so they act up. My daughter had glue ear for a while and I noticed the change in her behaviour too. I didn't notice that her hearing had reduced though and she had not said it had either as I guess their hearing reduces slowly overtime as the glue ear develops. We only found out about her glue ear after a routine hearing test at her school in year 2.

[Appuskidu]

Did the EP assessment mention any autistic traits?

[slowflyer]

Hi I’m no expert but have a daughter who is seriously autistic. Just a few thoughts: we know very little about what causes Autism. Check out the Autism section on this page. www.allianceforcamphill.com/resources-.html

But we do know it’s not caused by “social issues” That’s just nonsense. They main indicators of autism - and this varies widely - are: difficulty in socialising, repetitive behaviour, prone to sensory overload leading to meltdowns, not good at eye contact, difficulty or inability to put yourself in someone else place..what’s know as Theory of Mind. People with autism, even more so with kids, need structure and predictability. I’ve got 5 children and 4 grandchildren. two more on the way. Parenting isn’t easy. It’s trial and error and I’ve made a few in my time. It’s listening, love and patience. What I would say is this: we once took my daughter to a top autism expert in the US. He gave this piece of advice which I think is pretty good whether your child is autistic or not: “ If you’re getting the right answer, you’re not asking the right question”. Lots of luck.

[Paulajc]

My daughter is dyslexic and I had to battle with the school for a diagnosis. They asked me to pay £450 for the test which I couldn't afford, so I refused and told them they have yo provide a suitable education for my daughter - after months they did get her tested to find she is severely dyslexic. Once we had the report I can't fault the school one bit, she has extra lessons on phonics before school for a whole school year, taken out of normal English and Maths lessons and taught in a small group or individually. I have always had good contact with her teacher at primary - thats the key.

[Paulajc]

Posted before i'd finished!

The school need to step up they sound like a slack arsed set up - get in there and apply some pressure for the things your son needs.
He can't be the first struggling child with issues they've dealt with.

Good luck in getting him the extra help.

[JessicaEccles]

“ If you’re getting the right answer, you’re not asking the right question”.

I don't understand this?