Bullying, can we secretly record a bullying child?

[Imagineallthepeople]

Name change for this.

My ds has a mild but visible disability. I'm really proud of him for finding ways to do everything, and that his disability has never been an issue.

Now at 12 yrs old another child has begun seeking him out to tease and name call - insults relating to his disability

The perpetrator is a popular child, my ds is less so.

When challenged, the perpetrator denies the things he says and nothing has happened to hold him to account or stop him.

I am seething that after all these years this little turd is rocking my ds's world.

So, legally, where would I stand if I allowed my child to secretly record the perpetrator? Could i share the recordings with school/Clubs? Would it help? Am I just going nuts?

I am so hurt, angry, and feel powerless to defend my ds.

[SoulStew]

I would allow it. Then, tell the bully, his parents, and school that you have the recordings. But, I think sharing them might be frowned upon legally.

[shrunkenhead]

Don't you have to legally tell people things may be recorded???

[Maturemumma]

I am having similar problems with a child picking on my daughter, although they are younger than your son and she has no disabilities. I am currently looking for ways to record the behaviour of the other child but I do know that recording images without permission can potentially be illegal but I am unsure of the details.....

I feel for you and your son, I just don't know how/why people end up like this, the problem is theirs but it's manifestation is felt by everyone else...

[DumbledoresPensieve]

You only have to tell people they're being recorded if you're relying on using it in court. I would never normally condone covert recording, but in this case I'd go for it and show the little shit up for the bully he is. I wouldn't share it publicly though only with the school and his parents.

[Imagineallthepeople]

Shrunkenhead From googling I think you do if you are a company but it's a bit grey in private conversations. Also it's kids. I don't even know how I feel about it to be honest. I just need to do something.

[Oddmanout]

Your son is a child so no one is going to care about the legalities of him recording anyone except the bullies parents maybe. Record him and shoot him down in flames.

[Pickleypickles]

I would do it - they are hardly going to send you to jail for it and it will stop the little shit and hopefully make him feel terrible.

[Imagineallthepeople]

Would it stop him though? He has 3 1/2 more years at school with this kid.

[shrunkenhead]

Hmmmm I think I'd be uneasy filming kids in these circumstances and you really don't want this to be turned around on you so you look like the bad guy in all of this...
What is the bully saying to your son, exactly?
It may well be worth keeping a diary of incidents for future reference. That's usual advice and what I did when a fellow colleague was bullying me at work. I appreciate my circumstances are v different to you and your son's.
Bullies can also be v clever and manipulative and turn a situation around quite quickly to their
Much as I feel for you and your son I'd hate for this to backfire on you.

[ILikeThatSong123]

Once, few months ago I asked the same question to someone who is in charge of bullying prevention in a different institution. So the person afaik, is more knowledgeable about legality than a layperson and is neutral. And she said it is illegal. We didn't elaborate on the subject due to various reasons, the conversation went to other subjects.
Now I am still wondering what does being illegal entail. I believe it means it cannot be used in a court. Fair enough. But surely it can be used to explain to the school and the perpetrator's parents that it actually takes place in no uncertain terms. If they want to hold onto the excuse of it veing illegal, fine. Schools not taking their job of care of duty is not on either.
I would like to know as well...
Perhaps your child records it and gets disciplinary action taken against him/her for using a mobile phone or camera or whatever recording device it is, in the school premises which might be banned. So bully's cover might be off but your child gets disciplined for secretly filming someone against their will. It might happen.
It really sucks.

[shrunkenhead]

Turn a situation to their advantage that should've read!

[ILikeThatSong123]

I meant to say....schools not taking their job of duty of care seriously, is not on either.

[Imagineallthepeople]

Mature & dumble, I would definitely only record sound, and only use it if he denied/manipulated again. I don't know why some kids do this.

[Imagineallthepeople]

These are my worries too Ilike and shrunken. It could be a v long 3 1/2 yrs for him if it backfires. I don't think it would be the drop the mic moment of triumph I envisage. :-( I hate bullies.

[Branleuse]

id do it

[Imagineallthepeople]

We could record it, but don't have to do anything with it. I think that's what we'll do. I think my boy will feel v different about the nasty words knowing he is not alone hearing it. We can marvel at what an idiot the perpetrator sounds together. Maybe this will be enough. I think we'll do it and see how we go. Thanks all xx

[KERALA1]

How is it illegal?

Great idea op. Obviously don't share the footage or put it online but you can show it to the parents so they can no longer deny their little petal is in fact a turd. Camera never lies.

[youarenotkiddingme]

Well considering most teens film things daily and post them on you tube I'd be very surprised if filming in a public space is illegal.

For example you can film on a beach, on a street etc. It's only illegal to use the images for bad reasons (e.g. Pics of children on beach use by peadophile rings iyswim?)

I've never understood why you can't use the voice recorder section of your phone as evidence in court when they use spoken statements from witnesses that are not as accurate and have person bias in them

[CoraPirbright]

I would do it. Use is just the once to the head to prove your point and then delete and promise never to do such a thing again. If you are at your wits end on how to prove it then surely no one would condemn you?

Bullies are so skilled at being manipulative. Dd has had problems with a girl at school and every time I have complained, the teacher looks utterly astonished. She never sees it as the bully is clever and is only nasty when she is away from teachers. I told DD to say “dont say that - it is a horrid thing to say to me” at which the little baggage burst into tears, went straight to the teacher and blubbed that dd “had called her horrd” and then dd was the one in trouble!! Arrrrgh!

[tiggersdontlikehoney]

What's the worst that can happen? You or your son get 'told off'?
Reading this I thought the best way to do it would be to record, but not necessarily let them know you have the recording the first time. Keep a journal to go with it - dates, times, what was said. File the recordings.
Then at some point you can confront, go through each occasion and when the bully has finished saying no I didn't do that, no I didn't do that - that's when you pull out the file - demonstrating that not only is your son telling the truth about one occasion, but this is clearly a longer-term pattern of bullying. Makes it that bit stronger.
In our position, you could easily say, well what else were we supposed to do? - look, the bully would still deny everything without the recordings. So though we perhaps should not have recorded, we felt this was a last resort.
You want the focus to be on the distress to your DS then at that point, not how upset the bully is at being found out. And insist on that.

[Strokethefurrywall]

I would do it. And I really don't think there is anyway that a recording of your child being bullied can EVER be turned around and used against your son. Why would it backfire? That's a genuine question, I can't think of ways whereby a child having evidence of being bullied can have something turned around on him.

If all else fails, a swift kick somewhere painful might work (it did for my brother after endless taunts for walking on his toes - the shit never touched him again) Definitely bring the fucker down.

[Slightlyperturbedowlagain]

Sometimes I accidentally press the record button on my phone when it's in my pocket...

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

It's actually not illegal to record someone without their knowledge. I used to think it was but recently a colleague recorded a conversation with someone else at my company, then told him. He consulted lawyers and, apparently, it's not illegal. Likely these recordings will end up at an industrial tribunal so pretty much sure it wouldn't be illegal for your son to record a classmate.

[NotAgainYoda]

I don't have moral objections. I agree with tiggers post.

Just how practicable it is and what kind of sound quality you'll get

[AcrossthePond55]

I think it all generally has to do with 'reasonable expectation of privacy'. If the bully is standing in a public place then he/she has no reason to believe what he/she is saying might not be recorded or videoed. At least this is what was explained to us by a (US) lawyer. May be different in the UK and in our instance the people involved were all adults.

BUT, if this is happening on school property during school hours it may fall under different rules, I think you refer to it as 'safeguarding rules'? Whether or not that refers solely to video recording a minor without consent or also to sound recordings, who knows?