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to wonder why the government doesn't clamp down on tax avoidance?

(48 Posts)
Springbreeze Tue 07-Nov-17 22:42:32

So, I've been watching the Panorama programme on the Paradise papers. The superrich and multinationals like Apple are diverting billions of revenues offshore depriving the government of billions of tax which could otherwise be used to pay for public services.

They can do this because of lax tax laws in places like the Isle of Man, Jersey, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. These are all Crown dependencies and ultimately under the control of the British government. So why doesn't the government do something about it?

Furgggggg12 Tue 07-Nov-17 22:50:10

Who is in government?

Who benefits from these arrangements?

Furgggggg12 Tue 07-Nov-17 22:54:51

I think IoM etc set their own tax laws anyway.

ChristinaParsons Tue 07-Nov-17 22:56:55

Errr. Furggg answered that question and put this discussion to bed 😂

Katanna Tue 07-Nov-17 22:58:24

Theresa Mays' husband is in on the game.

Springbreeze Wed 08-Nov-17 06:42:05

Yes, the Isle of Man set their own tax laws, but if they really wanted to our government could overrule them. However, the government chooses not to and says it's nothing to do with us.

Believeitornot Wed 08-Nov-17 06:46:59

Because the government is lobbied constantly and hard by the super rich who whisper in their ear that they will take their business elsewhere. Ironic given that they avoid tax.

You may have heard that the Tories regularly have events where people pay for access to cabinet ministers? Only the rich can afford that...

These people spin the idea that the rich are the wealth creators.

Patently that is bull shit. The rich get richer and look at everyone else.

New Labour were just as bad as believing this.

Gobbolinothewitchscat Wed 08-Nov-17 06:47:09

Tax avoidance is legal. Evasion isn't. Some tax avoidance schemes are OK-ed by HMRC before being put into place.

Whilst some of the more aggressive methods are arguably morally wrong, I really hope that everyone who is calling for a blanket ban on any type of avoidance checks very carefully where their pensions are invested and never utilises salary sacrifice schemes at work for pension contributions or cycle to work schemes etc. Plus what about charitable giving? Should that scheme be abolished too?

Dippydippydora Wed 08-Nov-17 06:48:20

look at who is in power?. Who props up the Tory party? Who are their biggest supporters?

Dippydippydora Wed 08-Nov-17 06:49:39

And a agree Labour under Tony Blair were just as bad as the Torys at letting people and companies get away with this

anothernetter Wed 08-Nov-17 06:49:48

Not a Tory voter then Katanna?!

JonSnowsWife Wed 08-Nov-17 06:50:34

Because theres plenty of people who benefit from tax avoidance.

That's why.

Believeitornot Wed 08-Nov-17 06:54:09

Plus what about charitable giving? Should that scheme be abolished too?

That’s hardly on a par with secret and complex schemes to hide billions to avoid tax hmm

PaintingByNumbers Wed 08-Nov-17 06:55:48

Easy question

Because government is for and of the rich. Brexit is going to make it even more like that so look forward to that

JonSnowsWife Wed 08-Nov-17 06:55:58

Plus what about charitable giving? Should that scheme be abolished too?

Because that's totally the same thing as squirrelling away thousands / millions away in an offshore account. hmm

It's also bollocks anyway. Charities are subject to very strict rules about what they can and can't accept donation wise.

Undercoverbanana Wed 08-Nov-17 06:58:12

Because they are the sort of people (and their contributors) who benefit from it. The more loaded you are the greedier, in my opinion.

I ran a project at work recently to collect for the local food bank. Who contributed? The ones at the bottom of the ladder, lowest paid, renters, with the cheapest/or no cars, single mums with benefits to support their income .... Tells you all you need to know about this society.

AnyFucker Wed 08-Nov-17 06:59:56

That is a very naive question 😁

Ifailed Wed 08-Nov-17 07:05:42

two reasons. As others have said, because far too many of their friends, families and supports benefit from it. Also because most tax-related legislation is written by big accountancy firms who build-in loop holes that they subsequently sell-on to clients to avoid paying tax.

LakieLady Wed 08-Nov-17 07:06:39

While I agree that the schemes in crown dependencies and overseas territories should be stopped, those who benefit would only move their money to Monaco or Mauritius or somewhere else.

To be effective, action on tax avoidance schemes needs to be international. Unless the UK introduces capital controls, and there doesn't seem to be much appetite for that.

Believeitornot Wed 08-Nov-17 07:07:26

I ran a project at work recently to collect for the local food bank. Who contributed? The ones at the bottom of the ladder, lowest paid, renters, with the cheapest/or no cars, single mums with benefits to support their income.....Tells you all you need to know about this society

That’s always been the case and has been shown by research. Those who are well off pay disproportionately more.

As for the Isle of Man setting it’s own tax laws. Well it gets huge subsidies from the UK government in order to be able to pay for its public services.

Brexit is loved by the rich - they hate the EU because it protects workers. When businessmen talk about pesky red tape, have you ever stopped to wonder why they hate it? Because that pesky red tape stops them being quite so cavalier with their employees. Who after all should be grateful for anything other than the minimum wage.

Believeitornot Wed 08-Nov-17 07:09:52

I ran a project at work recently to collect for the local food bank. Who contributed? The ones at the bottom of the ladder, lowest paid, renters, with the cheapest/or no cars, single mums with benefits to support their income.....Tells you all you need to know about this society

That’s always been the case and has been shown by research. Those who are well off pay disproportionately more.

As for the Isle of Man setting it’s own tax laws. Well it gets huge subsidies from the UK government in order to be able to pay for its public services.

Brexit is loved by the rich - they hate the EU because it protects workers. When businessmen talk about pesky red tape, have you ever stopped to wonder why they hate it? Because that pesky red tape stops them being quite so cavalier with their employees. Who after all should be grateful for anything other than the minimum wage.

meditrina Wed 08-Nov-17 07:10:56

Because it's so often overlooked that the major beneficiaries of these schemes are ordinary people.

Via their pensions.

Do you think that pensions can afford to shrink the pot of money they pay out from? Are you happy for your pension/annuity to be reduced?

And at a governmental level - do you want to make new pensioners even poorer?

Believeitornot Wed 08-Nov-17 07:16:11

@meditrina

Er what? Pensioners who receive a state pension - these are not funded by tax dodging schemes hmm

Many people don’t have decent pensions as it is... that’s nothing to do with the tax dodging.

CoteDAzur Wed 08-Nov-17 07:17:27

Profit is taxed (or not) where it is made. If you make investments in a jurisdiction that has no capital gains tax, you won’t be liable to pay that tax back home, either.

You are saying that the UK should forcibly change the taxation systems in the independent jurisdictions of Cayman, Jersey, etc.

I don’t know enough about their relationship with the UK to know if this is possible (Aren’t they independently governed? Are they even part of UK?) but even if it were, you would not have stopped tax avoidance through offshore investments. Money would just flow somewhere else, where there continues to be favorable tax laws. Like Monaco, for example.

All you will have managed is to kill the economies of Cayman, Jersey, etc.

Undercoverbanana Wed 08-Nov-17 07:18:51

Pensions are a luxury for most people now. They are also pretty worthless, from what I understand, so no incentive to get one.

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