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Ice pick lobotomies...

(56 Posts)
diddlemethis Mon 06-Nov-17 18:25:11

To treat mental illness in the 1940s/50s orbital lobotomies were performed in their thousands. These grim operations consisted of an ice pick being inserted through the corner of the eye, which then broke the scull, and then the pick was used to mash the frontal lobe of the brain.

This was considered the best and kindest thing for folk suffering from mental illnesses.

AIBU, (definitely being a GF!) to think we will look back at the giving of cancer drugs and neutering children, on the understanding that it’s the correct and best thing to do, with the same horror?

diddlemethis Mon 06-Nov-17 18:26:55

Link for reference:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/jan/13/neuroscience.medicalscience

ghostyslovesheets Mon 06-Nov-17 18:27:26

yes

EveningShadows Mon 06-Nov-17 18:29:26

The giving of cancer drugs???? No of course we won’t! They save lives. We will invent something less brutal but we won’t look back on chemo as a pointless barbaric treatment.

It saves lives!

FannyWisdom Mon 06-Nov-17 18:29:54

Technically they still use the principal don't they?
Going in at the back of the eye socket is less damaging to the skull because bone is thinner there.

Still is pretty dramatic and theatrical. More so for the poor sod who can watch as it goes in.

diddlemethis Mon 06-Nov-17 18:34:23

To clarify the Lupron is for kids who don’t have cancer, but do have gender dismorphia. It is taken to delay puberty.

DoubleNegativePanda Mon 06-Nov-17 19:08:45

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

diddlemethis Mon 06-Nov-17 19:27:54

I guess this time it is loads different, because we really know what’s best, ‘eh.

Hysterectomies, and all the consequences of that op, or creating a non functioning vagina out of what once was a functioning penis, or just the physical damage from not going through puberty, that’s all totally reasonable things to do because at 11/12 the child really felt that they were certain...

StrongerThanIThought76 Mon 06-Nov-17 19:53:14

My dp is currently going through chemo. Basically his whole body is shot to shit after being poisoned. 50 years ago his cancer might have killed him assuming he survived the barbaric surgery (that even nowadays is particularly grim). I do hope that in the future there will be less awful ways to treat this nasty disease that will affect about half of us in the future.

But for now, yes it is brutal and almost inhumane to inflict such suffering on human beings. But it is working for many millions of people around the world

DayManChampionOfTheSun Mon 06-Nov-17 19:56:18

Umm I don’t think we will look back at cancer treatments with horror (well, that is unless we actually come up with a cure with no side effects - unlikely but I could then see your point)

Thetoothyteeth Mon 06-Nov-17 19:57:58

The OP IS NOT saying cancer drugs are bad - she is saying using those same cancer drugs as a medical treatment to delay puberty in children making them infertile and damaging bone, brain and emotional growth, is the equivalent of ice pick lobotomies - the medical treatment that was used for mental illness.

Person who said they still go in through the orbital bones - still? Are people still having lobotomies? Or do you mean where people have to have parts of their sinus / skull / brain removed due to cancer?

dinosaursandtea Mon 06-Nov-17 19:58:22

Grow the fuck up. Forcing kids to live as the wrong gender is cruel.

stitchglitched Mon 06-Nov-17 20:01:15

Medically transing children is abuse. We will look back on the damage that has been inflicted upon children in the name of an ideology with shame.

DayManChampionOfTheSun Mon 06-Nov-17 20:06:02

Thetoothyteeth

Apologies - completely misread that one! Thank you for pointing out.

I don’t think YABU then OP.l

workhardwinston Mon 06-Nov-17 20:06:44

Giving physically healthy children Lupron, rather than mental health counselling for their gender anxiety is really shortsighted and am my opinion, abusive.

There have been so many times when people suffering from mental health problems have been failed, then it was icepucks to the brain, now it’s castration and hysterectomies.

BriechonCheese Mon 06-Nov-17 20:16:13

Medically aiding the transition of a child is abhorrent. I would call into question the ethics of any medical health professional advocating this.

StealthPolarBear Mon 06-Nov-17 20:18:58

No one forces children to live within the confines of a gender stereotype (or if they do I agree it's cruel). But surgery on healthy children is maiming.

StealthPolarBear Mon 06-Nov-17 20:21:12

If my son wants to wear a pink dress and make up and call himself Brenda he can do so with my blessing. If he wants to lop off healthy parts of his body I will go to the ends of the earth and do everything in my power to stop him.

hotbutteredcrumpetsandtea Mon 06-Nov-17 20:21:58

Oh, I see. You're comparing ice-pick lobotomies to medical treatments for transgender children

It's a good comparison. Right now, today, people are drugging and maiming children. They are destroying their bodies and lives. If anything it's worse than the ice pick lobotomies, because we know so much better.

Thetoothyteeth Mon 06-Nov-17 20:23:18

Can anyone tell me why some parents encourage this type of surgery / medication at a young age and go along with the drugs despite the side effects and warnings available? I'm genuinely curious. Are there any parents on here who have done it?

Papayamum Mon 06-Nov-17 20:24:32

When you wrote neutering children I thought babies were given drugs to stop their reproductive organs from developing or something. Not trans kids.

gingergenius Mon 06-Nov-17 20:24:50

This isn’t going to end well, is it?

BriechonCheese Mon 06-Nov-17 20:29:05

If you can't criticise something because people shout #nodebate, it's usually because the the argument doesn't stand up to debate.

StealthPolarBear Mon 06-Nov-17 20:30:44

Papaya when do you think puberty is?

Icantreachthepretzels Mon 06-Nov-17 20:33:35

Hasn't there been a thread on fwr about this a while ago? There was an article comparing lobotomies to the transing of children -maybe on gendertrender or 4th wave now. I've advanced searched and not found anything but I'm sure I remember this. Maybe one of the fwr regulars will remember it and be able to link?

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