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To wonder if it becomes possible for people to change gender just by filling in a form then why wouldn't people take advantage of this?

(17 Posts)
GetYourHandsOffMyUnicorn Mon 30-Oct-17 20:39:26

If a man wanted to hurt, intimidate or make women feel uncomfortable (and there are too many men around who do want to), then what makes people come to the conclusion that they wouldn't use gender identity laws to their advantage and use them to get easier access to victims?

People always make out that we're overreacting when we point out that this will happen (and is already happening in some cases) but nobody actually explains why they think we're overreacting and why they think people with not so nice motives won't fill out a form in order to access the female changing rooms. Perhaps somebody on here who thinks this won't happen can explain why they think that rather than just accusing us of being hysterical or bigoted or whatever.

Surely if somebody is a sex offender or just a bit of a perv then a gender identity bill would be a bloody dream come true.

GetYourHandsOffMyUnicorn Mon 30-Oct-17 20:43:18

They won't even need to put on a dress or wear makeup or alter their appearance in any way. All they will need to do is fill in a form or simply state "I identify as a woman" and if anyone objects to this, they will be the ones in the wrong.

So remind me again why a perv wouldn't feel like all his Christmases had come at once?

FuckShitJackFairy Mon 30-Oct-17 20:59:45

There are high numbers of sex offebders in prison claiming to be trans. The trans rapist in a female prision in the uk has already sexually harrassed women. The califorian study shows 20% of incarsarated tw are sex offenders in comparrision woth 14% of other males- the conclusion normally taken is that once in prision it's ideal for them to trans. Tell them about 'lian huntley' as reported by his cell mate. There is 'danielle' muscato taking up space and funding in a womans shelter- show the photo. And atleast one case in canda or us where a man self id his way into a womams refuge to attack women.

They already are using the social expectation that we move aside, add in the loop hole....

GetYourHandsOffMyUnicorn Mon 30-Oct-17 21:05:12

Yet apparently this never happens Fuck. Amazing isn't it....

RaininSummer Mon 30-Oct-17 21:08:57

Gave up discussing this with someone just now as they just kept telling me everything was conjecture and how could I expect to them to believe it all (transwomen in female sport for instance). Such closed minds unable to consider the implications.

GetYourHandsOffMyUnicorn Mon 30-Oct-17 21:11:30

Don't get me started on the sport issue. It's completely batshit that people think it's fine and dandy to let men compete women just because they 'feel like women' (whatever that even fucking means).

Betty184 Mon 30-Oct-17 21:13:41

In most situations, men won't even need to fill in a form because, for example, who actually gets asked to provide ID as proof of their gender identity to go into the women's changing rooms or access a women's support group? I've certainly never been asked for ID and, if organisations or individuals just approach the male-bodied partons and ask them to provide proof that they have formally registered as female, it would be discrimination.

HerRoyalNotness Mon 30-Oct-17 21:16:15

I'm thinking of identifying as male for the purpose of future salary negotiations. I wonder if I would get anywhere with that.

GetYourHandsOffMyUnicorn Mon 30-Oct-17 21:18:12

What can we actually do about this? If you speak up about it then you are labelled a bigot and accused of being on the wrong side of history. It's horrifying to think about but I really think this will go through and there will be nothing we can do to stop it sad

DJBaggySmalls Mon 30-Oct-17 21:20:01

I'm waiting for the 2018 Winter Olympics. There are no restrictions or testing of any kind planned for women competitors.
dailycaller.com/2017/07/03/heres-what-the-2018-olympic-gender-regulations-look-like/

FuckShitJackFairy Mon 30-Oct-17 21:25:30

You go over to feminism chat and get to work signing the petitions, writing to your mp, following the twitter list &retweeting, linking articles, join the facebook groups and go to the meetings and get other women to do the same. That's as much as i can fathom.

differenteverytime Mon 30-Oct-17 21:26:23

I

Such closed minds unable to consider the implications.

I do think/hope that the minds of ordinary, thinking people may be starting to open. It's normal not to fully consider something you think doesn't affect you personally, beyond your natural inclination to be kind and to protect the marginalised. Much of it does come from a good place. Some people haven't yet got their heads round the huge extension of the term 'transgender' in recent years, to the point where it has much in common with a men's rights movement and may now actively work against the interests of women, children, gay people and some of those who in the past would have been called 'transsexual'. I imagine that many people think that 'trans' only refers to the last group. If you think that, then it looks like there isn't a risk. Poor old Sandra from Accounts just wants to refresh her lipstick in peace.

Also it isn't impossible that, when they first get an inkling of what is being pushed through, many people assume they must have misunderstood something, because the concepts are so utterly batshit and surely that can't be what it means?

WhoWants2Know Mon 30-Oct-17 21:32:36

I think a big part of the problem is that women already are sexually abused, harassed, assaulted, and raped and disbelieved or their stories are discounted.

The #metoo thing actually pissed me off in that the media were acting so surprised by the number of cases— as if women don’t spend their whole lives dealing with it and trying to keep themselves safe on a daily basis.

The reason people can’t imagine sex offenders taking advantage of the law is that they actually just don’t care what happens to women.

Betty184 Mon 30-Oct-17 21:36:39

Much of it does come from a good place. Some people haven't yet got their heads round the huge extension of the term 'transgender' in recent years, to the point where it has much in common with a men's rights movement and may now actively work against the interests of women, children, gay people and some of those who in the past would have been called 'transsexual'. I imagine that many people think that 'trans' only refers to the last group

Yes, I used to think that. I've known many transsexual women over the years and most of them just want to live their lives in peace. Even when I started to see it in real life, it took me quite a while to get my head around it, to understand the different groups now identifying under the 'trans' umbrella and to get away from the instinct to want to defend anything that was (wrongly) presented as being pro-LGBT and dismiss those raising concerns as bigots.

GetYourHandsOffMyUnicorn Mon 30-Oct-17 23:19:54

I've written to my MP but he still hasn't replied. Signed petitions and trying to keep informed. I have also been educating DP who is now enlightened on the issue.

Datun Mon 30-Oct-17 23:33:27

The #metoo campaign has definitely highlighted part of the problem. The number of people who yes act surprised, but also then try and minimise it by saying men get raped too, or women are just as bad. Either wilfully or ignorantly ignoring the power imbalance at the heart of it.

‘Male Violence’ The term does not get used.

If you flick through any newspaper on any given day, you will find least six or seven incidents of violence. Almost always committed by males.

But the dots don’t get joined. It’s just “violence”. The realisation that it’s incredibly sex specific doesn’t get picked up.

And that has been reflected in the attitude to the #metoo campaign.

So firstly, men don’t realise how prevalent and endemic sexual harassment is.

Secondly, it’s only about rape or sexual assault. But any woman knows that a man can intimidate her by doing virtually nothing. A lascivious look, the flick of an eye. It’s easy to make women feel uncomfortable. Hell, even ignoring their personal space does it.

So men who don’t realise how prevalent sexual harassment is, are never going to understand how painfully easy it is to discomfort or worry women.

It’s one of the reasons I get so annoyed when they say look, if someone commits rape, they will be arrested. Because they have no idea! A man can do a million deliberate things that do not constitute a crime.

So yes, a lot of people don’t think it’s a problem. And women are simply not listened to anyway If they were, it wouldn’t be such a problem in the first place.

The primary reason why women do not report rape or sexual harassment is because they feel they won’t be believed. That’s not something that millions of women have make up. It’s a horrible, painful truth.

So firstly it’s minimised, secondly it’s not really believed and thirdly it doesn’t matter.

HornyTortoise Tue 31-Oct-17 11:12:00

Much of it does come from a good place. Some people haven't yet got their heads round the huge extension of the term 'transgender' in recent years, to the point where it has much in common with a men's rights movement and may now actively work against the interests of women, children, gay people and some of those who in the past would have been called 'transsexual'. I imagine that many people think that 'trans' only refers to the last group

Yup, this is exactly the problem, and is HOW transactivists have got so far with their campaigns for changes.

I mean, would most people believe that there are fully intact males in female prisons currently? Or that men are competing against women in sport. Fallon Fox was what 'peaked' DH. He was absolutely disgusted that MMA would allow a male to fight the females. He did conclude that yes, the odd female may be able to win against him, but most stand no chance and would get VERY hurt during the fight, so its very unfair and absolutely should not be allowed. He said there is no point in having sex segregation if its ignored based on 'a feeling in someones head'...and that sex is simply a biological reality. Hes now full 'TERF' grin

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