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To think the break up of Europe has begun !

(165 Posts)
mountford100 Fri 27-Oct-17 15:50:06

Catalonia first Flanders next and the creation of the state of Northern Italy Lega Nord.

Is this the start of the collapse of integrated states within Europe.
Surely this must give encouragement for the creation of Flanders and a legal break from the Wallonian controlled state of Belgium.

Then we can envisage Florence, Milan, Turin ,Trieste, Venice, Bologna and Pisa . The Northern League splitting from Rome.

The death of the European Union is assured.

However, i find it quite hilarious how Donald Tusk , and his Teressa May like tweet that nothing has changed. This despite the EU protestations a few weeks ago that Catalonia would be kicked out of the European Union with immediate effect if independence from Spain was declared.

I think we are seeing the shoe on the other foot with regards to the European Union and its power.

Kursk Fri 27-Oct-17 15:57:26

European borders are in a near constant state of flux. They probably will change, then change again in another 50 years.

I expect there will be the odd war or two as well. I don’t think that really it means anything other than business as usual

PerkingFaintly Fri 27-Oct-17 15:59:07

Yes yes, break up not just the EU but actual countries like Spain and Belgium.

Then Europe will be lots of little separate countries. Oh, except for one rather large one. Which although massive has been annexing its neighbours like Ukraine to make it even larger.

Wonderful idea.

Will definitely benefit everyone.

PerkingFaintly Fri 27-Oct-17 16:02:33

^ That was sarcasm, BTW.

Given the cobblers being spouted in some places, thought I'd better subtitle it.

bluebells1 Fri 27-Oct-17 16:02:52

This is what happens when everyone is 'forced' into a union that no one is happy with, just to stoke the egos of the bureaucrats.

CaoNiMwahaha Fri 27-Oct-17 16:09:16

So many parallels with WW2.

Europe in flux.

Trouble in the Pacific.

An "otherised" group (this time Muslims) as the scapegoat.

Fucking terrifying.

OldWitch00 Fri 27-Oct-17 16:12:18

When money from rich regions is overwhelmingly used to bolster poor regions.

PerkingFaintly Fri 27-Oct-17 16:14:39

But Cao, it's such a wonderful opportunity.

As long as you're not a mere pleb in one of the affected countries of course. But if you're Russian, or American, or Chinese, these are thrilling times. Break up a whole power block, and you can divide and rule.

Don't see Wallonia being able to stand up to US trade bullying on it's own, somehow.

It's fabulous times. Especially if you're the right sort of billionaire.

Rebeccaslicker Fri 27-Oct-17 16:14:43

Cao - you know what's not remotely parallel to ww2?

The weapons and the sheer scale of destruction that they could cause sad

Obv not denigrating the indescribable events of ww2 but humans have done a damn good job of working out many more ways to destroy each other and the planet effectively in the interim sad

allegretto Fri 27-Oct-17 16:16:37

Then we can envisage Florence, Milan, Turin ,Trieste, Venice, Bologna and Pisa . The Northern League splitting from Rome.
Nope. Not envisaging that at all. Not sure why you are. confused

scaryteacher Fri 27-Oct-17 16:19:54

I thought Flanders already existed Mountford, or maybe I was dreaming that I've lived here for 11 years.

Flanders has its own parliament; given it oversees all this
www.flemishparliament.eu/about-the-flemish-parliament/what-are-the-devolved-competences-the-flemish-parliament it's nearly there already. Not really sure I want Vlaams Belang in charge, and Belgium is dysfunctional enough as it is; splitting would make it worse, but would mean the EU might move.

user1471596238 Fri 27-Oct-17 16:20:20

OP I think, with respect, that you are getting a little bit ahead of yourself.

Moussemoose Fri 27-Oct-17 16:23:33

Surely when states want independence the EU becomes even more important. Countries feel that while total independence might be a disaster being part of a federated EU would give them security.

Both Scotland and Catalonia want to stay in the EU.

c3pu Fri 27-Oct-17 16:23:50

Cao - you know what's not remotely parallel to ww2?

The weapons and the sheer scale of destruction that they could cause

The people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki may well disagree... Not to mention we didn't need to use any nukes when we leveled Dresden.

Rebeccaslicker Fri 27-Oct-17 16:25:09

Sure, but the bombs we have today could do far more damage than even those evil wicked things. And that's to say nothing of possible biological warfare or sonic attacks or cyber attacks... Technology has moved on and it could be used to wreak even worse atrocities than the ones the world swore would never happen again.

missperegrinespeculiar Fri 27-Oct-17 16:25:47

Yes, indeed this is what happens when selfish rich regions want to keep all their money for themselves despite having benefitted form the joint national efforts, and when destructive left wing radicals think that upsetting the system will bring justice (Catalonia I mean!), as for being forced in a Union that nobody wanted, speak for yourself, I did want it, and do did many others.

The dream of a united Europe based on solidarity is a very old one, we should have all fought to democratise the Union more, and lessen the power of the technocrats, instead we have fallen for idiotic, populist rhetoric which will make all of us weaker.

When (if, when I am being very optimistic!) Europe is divided into squabbling little, petty regions with no capacity to influence world politics will see how good our life will be!

Imagine Catalonia, and yes, even the Uk (or whatever will be left of it by the time this mess is over!) trying to balance Chinese or Russian power, or even trying to impose its will on big, powerful, private International actors, ridiculous! we will end up colonised by greater powers, public and private, not that we don't deserve it anyway!! This makes me so angry!

scaryteacher Fri 27-Oct-17 16:25:58

Don't see Wallonia being able to stand up to US trade bullying on it's own, somehow. Possible, if they threaten to close SHAPE and throw a spanner in NATO's works. There's a whole lot of US defence expenditure that has gone into Brussels and Wallonia (Flanders gets some as lots of NATO HQ personnel live in Flanders and spend here), and I don't expect they will want to lose that and all the infrastructure they have set up.

JamesBlonde1 Fri 27-Oct-17 16:26:12

Yes there are likely to be some splits somewhere down the line.

Allegreto - there was an article on Radio 4 the other day about at least Veneto mooting separation from the rest of Italy, or wanting to stay with the "North" and splitting from the "South". I couldn't follow it properly as I was in the car and I had company.

My simplistic interpretation is the richer areas are sick and tired of carrying the poorer regions.

PlayingGrownUp Fri 27-Oct-17 16:27:36

Being from Northern Ireland I’m always fascinated when anyone says how people seeking independence will break up the EU they never mention the possible break up of the UK as Northern Ireland could very possibly leave the UK or become a part of a united Ireland.

scaryteacher Fri 27-Oct-17 16:28:54

being part of a federated EU would give them security. How? Being part of NATO would do that, but being part of the EU doesn't achieve that.

PeriPostwoman Fri 27-Oct-17 16:30:09

Oh dear OP. YABU.

<cough cough Brexit Bot cough>

allegretto Fri 27-Oct-17 16:30:10

Jamesblond - the Veneto have been going on about that for years but 6 of the 7 cities the OP mentioned are not in the Veneto hence my confusion.

Ceto Fri 27-Oct-17 16:31:02

There was of course the other possibility I heard mentioned once -Scotland goes independent, then Wales breaks off, then England does the same and tells Northern Ireland that Britain is all theirs.

It may not have been entirely serious, but you never know.

thegreylady Fri 27-Oct-17 16:32:55

Apparently the Isle of Man is not in the EU...

c3pu Fri 27-Oct-17 16:34:05

Sure, but the bombs we have today could do far more damage than even those evil wicked things.

To a degree, yes... but the general way weapons technology has moved is increased sophistication and cost, with decreased volumes being used.

And that's to say nothing of possible biological warfare or sonic attacks or cyber attacks

Meh, WWII happened without the chemical attacks that happened in WWI... Even the Nazis respected that part of the Geneva Convention.

Technology has moved on and it could be used to wreak even worse atrocities than the ones the world swore would never happen again.
Any present or future war will no doubt feature plenty of atrocities. But I wouldn't be overly concerned it would be way worse than the past wars, probably just different.

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