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Independent Catalonia...

(178 Posts)
littlebird7 Fri 27-Oct-17 15:31:41

Are we cheering from the rooftops delighted that they finally got their independence? Or shocked and sad for our Spanish friends have such a huge split in their amazing country?

Or do we feel both emotions at once?

I am shocked and but knew it was coming, could see it was heading that way when 700 companies moved in one week....

Over to you

Seniorcitizen1 Fri 27-Oct-17 15:41:34

Unilateral declarations never go well - it will be interesting to see how EU reacts.

PoppyPopcorn Fri 27-Oct-17 15:46:26

There's a long way to go before Catalunya is independent. They are declaring independence on the back of a referendum which is only recognised by a few in Catalunya, not by the rest of Spain and not by Europe.

If they want to be independent from Spain they have to follow the proper process and they haven't done that. Quite how Spain reacts remains to be seen - but it's not going to be pretty.

trixymalixy Fri 27-Oct-17 15:46:49

I feel very anxious about it all. I cannot see it ending well.

uptheclydeinabananaboat Fri 27-Oct-17 15:49:45

Spain's reaction will be interesting.

I'd hate to see it end in a civil war of sorts

MephistophelesApprentice Fri 27-Oct-17 15:50:25

It's like watching Serbia leave Austria-Hungary all over again. The principle of self-determination, that the Americans gleefully imposed on the UN to break up traditional empires, has always been an invitation to savagery and bloodshed.

SoupyNorman Fri 27-Oct-17 15:52:15

The principle of self-determination, that the Americans gleefully imposed on the UN to break up traditional empires, has always been an invitation to savagery and bloodshed.

As opposed to the peace and light by which those 'traditional empires' bollocks were created hmm

MadForlt Fri 27-Oct-17 15:55:16

They don't have independence. They have voted for it. Meanwhile Spain are planning to take over ruling it.

It is much to early to be cheering or whatever.

MephistophelesApprentice Fri 27-Oct-17 15:56:41

As opposed to the peace and light by which those 'traditional empires' bollocks were created

Yes, the American method of unacknowledged hegemony and corporate colonialism has truly brought about an enlightened era, as demonstrated by Africa's wealth, South America's political stability and Central America's victory over organised crime.

DaisyLand Fri 27-Oct-17 16:00:59

Worrying I find it.
I’m from another part of Spain that has wanted independence for ages and honestly I can’t see this ending well. This is what happens when governments instead of talking and reaching proper agreements that could benefit everyone , look to the other side as if there wasn’t a problem.

Worried that this will lead to a civil war and I’ve too many friends in that area for whose wellbeing I’m concerned about.

And jealous , wished one day my áreas politicians would hear the citizens and follow what they are asking for , fight for it even if it means they’re going to end in prison like it’s really likely the Catalan president will end.

Meanwhile the most corrupted party from whole Europe keeps asking to follow the laws , don’t make me laugh ! They’ve wrapped themselves with the Spanish flag as if they’re the heroes when they are the party that has most broken the country.

mountford100 Fri 27-Oct-17 16:01:45

Yes, lets have the Guardia Civil bused in from Madrid and Castlia La Mancha . Why not give them batons or even Guns to stop the independence movement. Perhaps put Tanks on the street or go the whole hog and bring back Franco's descendants .

BriechonCheese Fri 27-Oct-17 16:02:44

Rudely following this thread to learn more.

scaryteacher Fri 27-Oct-17 16:03:30

What do you expect the EU to do Senior? There has been a statement from Tusk supporting Madrid, and requesting non violence. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. They will, as ever, do nothing; what can they do?

mountford100 Fri 27-Oct-17 16:05:58

Disgusting behaviour from Spain has been going on for a long time regarding Catalonia . The region has asked for a vote on their nationhood for at least 10 years , constantly rebuked by Madrid .

GrockleBocs Fri 27-Oct-17 16:07:51

It's like watching Serbia leave Austria-Hungary all over again.
Meph - you're older than I thought grin

Aderyn17 Fri 27-Oct-17 16:08:43

I don't know what the Spanish govt expected when they got the police to attack citizens at polling stations.
The right to self determination is important and Spain ought to respect it. The way the Spanish authorities conducted themselves at that election and the lack of condemnation from the rest of the EU, cheers me up somewhat about Brexit.

Donostia Fri 27-Oct-17 16:09:34

i'm in another part of spain (perhaps the same as where daisy is from) and i'm worried. the 90% figure is totally off given the anti independence voters didn't vote because they didn't recognise it as a legal referendum, and the general pro independence figure is estimated to be nearer 40 %. My colleague had to have a police escort to get into a meeting at the uni today and she and all the visitors were terrified.

SilverySurfer Fri 27-Oct-17 16:11:54

I wish Catalan well but fear the Spanish government will not tolerate it and there will be bloodshed.

DaisyLand Fri 27-Oct-17 16:15:38

Donostia kaixo ;) yeah we’re from the same area.
mountford100 don’t give them ideas. It’s really likely that more police is going to be sent, I’m supposed to be going on holiday in 2weeks time.

PoppyPopcorn Fri 27-Oct-17 16:47:56

Agur to Donostia and Daisy! (Not an Euskera speaker but lived in Bilbao for a while and undersand the region if not the language).

As a Scot, I'm concerned for my own country too as well as for Spain/Catalunya/Euskadi. Some of the more rabid Scottish nationalists are LOVING what the Catalans are doing. They support them all the way with their declaration, irrespective of whether it's legal or not. There's a large minority which would love to see Nicola Sturgeon do exactly the same thing as Carles Puigemont and declare independence from the UK.

Madrid needs to play this carefully. Felipe II had his chance when he addressed the nation - he could have called for calm but he bottled it and made the situation worse. The best case scenario would be for Rajoy to agree to a fair and legal independence referendum for Catalunya to see how it all plays out. Figures seem to suggest that it would be similar to our result in Scotland - 55% no, and to retain the status quo.

That would be the best thing, in my opinion. I'd hate to see Catalunya separate from Spain, but if it can be proven that that is what a legal majority want, then it should happen.

At the moment it's not a legal majority though, it's the most vocal. The pro-Spain people didn't even vote as they perceived the referendum as illegal. Which it was.

WitchesHatRim Fri 27-Oct-17 16:51:37

I can't see it ending well in all honesty.

mountford100 Fri 27-Oct-17 16:57:56

Poppy. I agree 100 percent with your statement. The Spanish Government should have said we regard the vote of October the 1st as only an opinion poll.

However, we acknowledge the right of the Catalan people to seek clarification of their. Therefore we have agreed to have a fair and binding referendum on the nationhood of Catalonia.

babybarrister Fri 27-Oct-17 16:58:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mountford100 Fri 27-Oct-17 16:59:01

Clarification of their identity.

babybarrister Fri 27-Oct-17 17:04:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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