Do I bail my DB out?

[threesocksmeghan]

This feels so tricky to me but I feel MN would be able to cut through the bull and call it as it is. I have posted similar before but only now has everything come to light. So there is no intention of drip feeding or trolling on my part.

I lent my DB 2.5k in July for his Masters. I didn't want him to do a Masters as he only got a 2:2 for his degree but he was looking at a loan of the same at 48%. We agreed a loan of 10% over 2 years.

He has been late with every payment but paid it. Got kicked off Masters oved back in with DM rent free until last month so hassle paid 500 rent since July.

I lent my DM 2k as she's shit with money, has bailiffs turn up at the door for council tax regularly etc. Plus it was for sorting out the house after the dog flooded it (because she let the insurance lapse.

I've just found out she lent half of it to my DB and swore him to secrecy. Gave him a ridiculous repayment plan (3 mths) and only now is all this crap coming out because none of them can sort it and it's left to me.

My problem is this:

1. it is not my problem and I've already lent him 2.5k + 1k (unknowingly) since may
   
2. both DM and DB have gone behind my back. I can't trust them and now I look back they've both been nasty buggers with this on top that I had no idea about.
   
3. my DM has a naice house with a very small mortgage. She has no income but could in principle remortgage or equity release and sort her son out (considering she's so concerned as to use my money to bail him out). She's flat out told me she would rather let him 'sink' or file for bankruptcy. This puts more pressure on me and I feel like telling them both to fuck off as DM owes me 10k+ and if I pay of DBs crap I will have lent him 5k since may. With no assurance he won't borrow from these companies again and no assurances of him, you know, living within his means like the rest of us do??
   
   I want to help but I'm loathe to.

[threesocksmeghan]

** lent him 2.5k in MAY for his Masters. He had already borrowed 10k from student finance but the course was such that he couldn't graduate until the following January instead of july/August. He asked for 2.5k for rent to cover the extra 5 months plus living expenses.

When he got kicked off said masters after getting the loan (so no rent or expenses now payable) the money was gone. Within 6-8 weeks. He's now paying me back 125 a month.

I assume it's gone on these bloody payday loans plus the lifestyle that has got him into this mess and I am

[Ploppie4]

Why are you lending your family money? They are not your children. What is your set up? Tell them you can’t give them any more cash because you’ve got other commitments

[Ploppie4]

Why did to loan your DB 2.5k? I really don’t understand sorry.

[TanteRose]

do not bail them out.
you are throwing good money after bad.
you're not going to get any of it back, you know...

[Ploppie4]

Do you live at home? Have a well paid job? Have a mortgage? Have kids? Are you on the breadline? How did you get into this money dynamic? Why are they asking for cash? Why aren’t you saying no?

[threesocksmeghan]

I lent him the money as he rang me and said he would be paying back some huge interest rate! So I offered to lend it instead to avoid this. Now I've realised I could lend this and him still borrow more in which case I'm not solving the problem.

[threesocksmeghan]

I'm living at home temporarily after a break up and have savings. No kids etc. But as I say I've helped my DM out a lot (with money which I doubt I'll see again)

I can't let him drown in these shit storm loans... can I?

[Ploppie4]

He should pay for his own education. It’s not the norm to pay for a siblings MA. I suspect you have some rescuer role in the family that you need to step out of. Deep down you know they won’t give you the cash back but you still throw money at them. Are you pressurised to give your cash?

[TanteRose]

if you don't let him sort it out by himself, he's always going to think "oh, threesocks will rescue me..." and he will take you down with him.
You're going to have no money left at this rate!

[threesocksmeghan]

I feel a bit like that yes. Especially when these payday loans are do horrific. You just want to wipe it all away! But I really don't trust he won't do it again so that's the only thing that's holding me back.

[hiddley]

Well you're one of his creditors. How do you feel?

[Ploppie4]

Yes you need to let him sink. Stop enabling. He’s made his own educational and financial choices. Just like you have. You are effectively disempowering him and babying him. How will he ever grow into a responsible adult if he never gets to take responsibility? He needs to reap the natural consequences of his actions. How will he learn otherwise?

[LondonGirl83]

He is an adult. You've helped once and that's more than you needed to. Give him sound financial advice but if he goes bankrupt he goes bankrupt. He can still live at home so it's not like he'll end up on the street if you don't help him. Many people can only learn the hard way and all you'll be doing is throwing your money away as he'll become dependent on you rather than live within his means which is more than possible for someone not paying rent.

[Ploppie4]

So tell them that you’ve kindly loaned them a total of 12.k and you can’t help them any more. You’re cash is tied up and committed elsewhere. You don’t need to explain yourself.

What did your mother spend 10k on?

[Mummyoflittledragon]

Your mother and he are adults. You’ve sunk enough money into them. STOP. NOW. Until they know the bank of dd and dsis has run out, they’re not going to bother to stand on their own two feet. If your mother is short of money, she can downsize.

You said you’ve moved back home. I assume you’re therefore around them everyday. I’d move out if I were you. It will be cheaper to find a room in a shared house than to keep bailing them out.

[SemiNormal]

Get him to go to CAB if you can to see if they can help him with debt management advice, possibly a DRO?

Ask him to set up a reasonable payment plan to yourself, ditto your mother - don't bother setting payments too high or they just won't pay, maybe £50 a month? The money you gave your mother you need to reclaim from her, not your brother who she passed it on to - that's her business to reclaim from him then.

If you want to help your DB in future then don't lend him money, you're enabling his financial incompetence, instead help him seek good financial advice.

I have a brother like this. Last time he asked for money because he was hungry I offered him a bag of frozen chicken and a back of chips, he didn't want them funnily enough!

[Ploppie4]

You really shouldn’t have offered him the MA money. He should borrowed from a bank or earned the cash the normal way.

Is he working? Does he live at home?

Put your foot down. They will work through all your personal savings otherwise. Move out if you need to.

[Ploppie4]

Help him by taking him to the CAB. Point him in the direction of financial advice but don’t act on his behalf. Disengage and let him discuss his issues while you nip out for a coffee

[MayCatt]

You're not stopping him from getting these loans. You're simply giving him more money as well as the loans.which means he is even less likely to pay either you or the loan company back. Sorry OP but YWBVU to lend him anything further.

[Isetan]

You’re neither helping or bailing your family out, you’re enabling two feckless individuals who have manipulated you into handing wads of cash over so they can continue being feckless.

Stop throwing good money after bad.

[annandale]

Does it help to think of him as a money addict? I came to feel that my dad was incapable of treating money normally and stopped giving him any. It was very hard at some points. The worst stage was when he found suckers outside the family and persuaded them to give him more. It seems to have stopped now that he is almost 90 but I couldn't ever guarantee it. I would move out as soon as you can. Sort out a payment plan but I'm on at some point you will probably have to write a chunk of it off. Separate money from your relationship.

[caringdenise009]

Get a credit report for him to see what his credit rating is. If he's defaulted on payday loans it should be quite bad, and he should be refused further loans. If it isn't ruined yet,wait until it is before you help him financially and only do it if he contacts Stepchange or similar. Same with your mum I'm afraid. Pp are right, if you ride to the rescue it will happen again and again. Help should also be conditional (for him) on getting a job,any job. Don't entertain any crap about him wanting one in keeping with his graduate status- tell him that if he plays that card your help will be withdrawn.

[threesocksmeghan]

Thanks for all the replies

I just wanted to get it written off with one lump sum.... but I've already been stupid. It is not my issue

[SleepFreeZone]

So are you living in your DMs house with your mum and your DB at the moment? If so get the hell out of there and stop lending them both money!

[shakingmyhead1]

yes you can let him drown in the shit storm.... or you can pay them all off and pay them all off again and pay them all off again and again and again and yes! again!
You can let him grow up and be an adult or pay his way and teach him that someone will always bail him out ( that someone being you)