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..to shop my SM for fraud?

(50 Posts)
JacobeanWilson Sat 21-Oct-17 00:06:48

SM is a difficult person. Recently while looking for an argument she mentioned she had a lasting power of attorney against my DF in conjunction with my sibling (who I have nothing to do with due to previous acts of humungous selfish behaviour).

My DF was present. I asked afterwards when we were alone, did you agree to this? It seemed unlikely due to both potential attorneys being fundamentally selfish & not interested in the wider family. No I didn't & haven't signed anything, says DF.

It played on my mind & after looking into it, I learnt I could confidentially apply to find out if something was registered against my DF. In the meantime I see my DF again. The power of attorney is mentioned. DF says, don't worry I've spoken about it with SM & I don't know why SM said that because I've not agreed to a power of attorney & she's now accepted that. DF was 100% clear there was never & would never be a power of attorney as SM had suggested, with that arrangement of attorneys.

Today I got the results of the search of the register. There is a power of attorney against my DF name. SM and my sibling named attorneys, just as SM had previously claimed. My DF is adamant he did not agree to this or sign this (at least not knowingly, DF trusted SM implicitly so possibly signed with coersion / pressure or misled, as he is easy going & she is forceful, but as I say DF trusted her completely but had no intention of agreeing to these power of attorneys).

So basically, this is fraudulent. The donor is supposed to freely donate the power not have it donated by another without their knowledge.

Do I shop her? Do I leave it & risk my DF being bullied into ignoring the abuse of trust & the lies that followed recently when SM agreed to respect DF choice not to have the power of attorney, knowing she'd already done it? And DF being stuck with this situation? It's not what he wants but my SM has threatened before to make his life unpleasant if he doesn't keep her happy (not hearsay, I was there!) What happens if someone is found guilty of this type of fraud? She's either tricked him into signing the paperwork, or forged his signature.

My head says give DF the facts, support DF choice. My heart says shop the cow... but aibu? So confused & worried, this could be the tip of the iceberg (thinking has his will been redrafted without his knowledge now I know this has been done)

Help me get my thoughts straight please!

teaandtoast Sat 21-Oct-17 00:08:56

Could your dad just be telling you what you want to hear?

JacobeanWilson Sat 21-Oct-17 00:10:52

I have considered that tea but I honestly don't believe that's the case.

GiantHulkHands Sat 21-Oct-17 00:43:32

Report her, I think.

If your dad loses capacity and the powers become active, your sm and sibling will make decisions which affect your dad’s life. Is this what he wants?

Fascinate Sat 21-Oct-17 00:49:02

The PoA could already be active, they can be set up to come into effect immediately. I would be seriously concerned. I have PoA for my dad (who is in a nursing home with dementia unfortunately), and on registering it at the bank, they gave me a bank card and pin on his account!

dangermouseisace Sat 21-Oct-17 01:13:53

does your father have any memory problems OP?

RunRabbitRunRabbit Sat 21-Oct-17 01:19:42

Quietly make an appointment with the solicitor for you and your father. Get your dad to tell the solicitor all this. At least you can then do whatever is necessary to get the poa removed and maybe moved to you.

To do her for fraud would surely require your father to press charges, make a statement, stand up in court against her. It doesn't sound to me like he would do that. Hence focus on getting the POA removed from them.

JacobeanWilson Sat 21-Oct-17 08:02:18

No dangermouse but in the last 6 weeks approx my SM started hinting my DF was having memory issues, and needed extra 'looking after'. I was worried about altzimers or dementia. But when I asked my DF what was going on he said they had both recently been for memory tests & were both within the normal range for age.

I thought that was really odd. But in light of the POA I'm now worried it's a bigger plan to discredit my DF's sanity. For example if my DF did broch the subject with a friend thatd think 'oh Jacobean's DF is confused bless them, it's it good he has Jacobean's SM to take care of him'. I mean, ppl might not take my DF seriously unless they cause a huge storm which would risk their entire marriage.

WhatwouldAryado Sat 21-Oct-17 08:06:08

Definitely go with your father to a solicitor. BUT my grandmother was in strong denial about her dementia diagnosis. Perhaps a visit to the Dr with him first?

WhatwouldAryado Sat 21-Oct-17 08:06:50

Fraud charge would them come from your father.

Brightredpencil Sat 21-Oct-17 08:12:52

If she's conniving enough to arrange for this to be the case then she's clearly up to something otherwise why bother? You must act sooner rather than later.

flumpybear Sat 21-Oct-17 08:18:56

Wow how bizarre! If your dad is of sound mind with no issues etc then a solicitor I think should be contacted because perhaps there’s fraudulent behaviour here
My suspicions albeit I have no idea, would be that it would be negated because this would have been done prior to him mentally declining (etc .... ) if and when anything does happen to him - although I guess if they forged his signature you can’t prove it

Definitely get advice

Auntpetunia2015 Sat 21-Oct-17 08:21:32

To get poa we had to see someone from the solicitors who asked my mum lots of questions about whether she trusted me
/my sister was she happy to let us take over if necessary and we had to get a third party independent person ( in our case a friend of mums) to sign and say we had her best interest at heart. Surely your dad would know if he'd done this?

Ellybellyboo Sat 21-Oct-17 08:23:30

A couple of years ago Mum applied for PoA for my Nan and I received a load of paperwork informing me that PoA had been applied for and to let them know if I had any objections - Mum said that you have to give them details of all close relatives

If you haven't had anything like that, it seems that she's trying to be sneaky, unless the process has changed

WitchesHatRim Sat 21-Oct-17 08:25:41

I would want to see the results of the tests first.

My MIL said the same that gets were normal. In reality they were far from it.

JacobeanWilson Sat 21-Oct-17 08:37:15

My SM has managed their financial affairs for years. I warned my DF yrs ago to take more interest but he liked being looked after.

A solicitor isn't essential from what I've learnt. If my SM did this herself and it wasn't above board, she wouldn't draw attention to it by involving a solicitor.

My sibling is named on the attorney part so as a close relative they obviously know. Siblings spouse is named as a reserve attorney. My DF would NEVER agree to potenially placing their financial control in their hands! He's only been around for a few yrs & DF has no idea really how he handles money or wouldn't want to discuss such things with him. DF would rather leave it to a court of protection to decide if needed because I get the impression that anyone chosen to manage his affairs has to keep records and is accountable far more than the POA route, which is more open to abuse.

FenceSitter01 Sat 21-Oct-17 08:38:55

Who are the witnesses ?

Is the PoA lodged wit ha solicitor.

WitchesHatRim Sat 21-Oct-17 08:40:02

*tests

karategirl Sat 21-Oct-17 08:44:16

I don't work in this area, but I am a solicitor. I agree with previous posters that you should definitely go with your father to see a solicitor. It's possible to set up an LPA without a solicitor, although I'd imagine that the majority of people do use a solicitor, as the paperwork can be a bit confusing if you're not used to it. If the LPA was validly donated (and a solicitor was used) then the existing solicitor would have records that it was all done properly. If not, and your father is of sound mind (which the Dr can back up) then he will be able to withdraw it himself by an application.

Go and see a solicitor ASAP - many will offer a free half an hour consultation. If your father's memory is deteriorating, then it will be much more difficult (though not impossible) to do anything to protect him by the time his faculties worsen.

wibblywobblywoo Sat 21-Oct-17 08:45:38

Oh OP, what a mess! It seems this has opened up a lot of other potential issues as well as the possibly fraudulent POA.

Can you get a few hours alone with your DF and have a proper talk? As other's have said some people can be in complete denial about a poor memory test result so maybe cover that by saying you'll come with him to the GP and get verifiable proof that he did OK. Then you check with his bank to see if anything has been changed and to alert them to the possibility that it might....

And then you must see what your DF wants to do about the POA being set up apparently behind his back - could you do another one with you as the attorney and lodge it at his solicitors with a covering statement that precludes anyone else taking one out? Good luck OP, your DF is lucky to have you there in his corner.

SandyY2K Sat 21-Oct-17 08:45:46

Your SM sounds dodgy. Can you see your dad alone and show him your evidence.

FeelingWelrd Sat 21-Oct-17 08:49:07

You’d have been served with a notice if there was a registered POA, something isn’t adding up here if you haven’t been.

LakieLady Sat 21-Oct-17 08:53:54

You could raise it with adult social care as a safeguarding concern (financial abuse). They'd speak to your DF and investigate.

An extended family member ripped off her dad massively using a POA. He went into residential care, she got through loads of his money, rented his house out to her daughter and didn't hand over the rent, telling him that the daughter was staying there rent free to look after it, and spunked shedloads during this time on long-haul holidays, home improvements, new cars and beauty treatments.

He was a millionaire, thanks to a long career in banking, an excellent pension and very shrewd investments. He'd always told the family that when he died, his 2 kids would get the house and a sum of money equivalent to its value, and that the same again would be shared between the 5 grandchildren.

She claimed that it all went on care home fees, but shortfall between the fees and his income was only £200pw. She'd also told him that the house was on the market but not selling, when it wasn't on the market at all. The money from the sale of the house was at least £350k. The grandchildren ended up getting £1,500 each, so £7.5k. She'd ripped off her own kids, ffs.

If any of us could remember the date of his death, we'd get a copy of the will and see just how this happened. She claims that all the money went on care home fees, but we know this wasn't the case. He was properly with it too, his problems were all physical, not mental.

Bertsfriend Sat 21-Oct-17 09:01:48

This is really strange, I'm my dad's LPA and our solicitor's appointment was about 45 minutes while dad was asked a lot of questions. I was advised of the seriousness of LPA. Then my sister and my (adult) children were asked to sign an agreement sent to them in the post. I'd be really surprised if this could be done without his knowledge.

JacobeanWilson Sat 21-Oct-17 09:03:59

Would I be informed? How would the registering people know about me if the form didn't refer to me? I mean, if it is dodgy then SM would leave me off it surely.

I spoke to the POA gov ppl for general advice. They said the authorised registered LPA would have been posted out to the 'person named for correspondance' which doesnt have to be the donor (shocking!) So she could be bypassed the risk of DF seeing the paperwork.

The question of who allegedly witness my DF signature is one of like to know. I don't know if the OPG would tell me that.

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