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Aibu to think that no gender is perfect

(140 Posts)
Yourownworstenemy Tue 17-Oct-17 18:19:29

I genuinely don't know if I am being unreasonable here.

I feel like there is so much stuff around at the minute hating on men (even before the weinstien thing) I feel like it's almost becoming ALL women against ALL men.

Do not get me wrong I fully agree we should all (men and women) stand with victims and fight for justice and punishment for the perpetrators.

But I just feel a bit like certain groups are using recent events to 'prove' all men are abusers, it's almost become all women are victims and all men are abusers, i agree the men (and women) who have committed crimes should be punished but there are many men in the world that aren't abusers, and there are many women in the world that are, and I feel like we are becoming a bit blind to that in recent years.

In real life I daren't voice this though because I'm not always the most articulate person and I feel It might seem like I am defending people like Weinstein which obviously I am definitely not doing!

VladmirsPoutine Tue 17-Oct-17 18:23:23

What are you saying here? It all sounds rather garbled. Not all men are abusers but oddly enough it would appear that quite a lot of women have been on the receiving end of 'less than wanted' machinations from mainly men. And I use that term lightly.
I think the narrative of 'not all men' rather seeks to silence a very important message which whilst unpalatable needs to be said.

AdalindSchade Tue 17-Oct-17 18:24:02

hmm
Doesn't the #metoo hashtag show you that it pretty much is all women?
The vast vast majority of sexual assaults are carried out by men. It's not 'hating' men to point that out. Nobody is saying all men are abusers for goodness sake but sexual harassment, abuse and assault of women by men is an endemic problem in society that is often ignored and the victims punished and blamed (witness the victims of Weinstein who tried to speak up and were blacklisted for years)
The fact that most women have been harassed and/or assaulted doesn't make women the 'perfect gender' (what a stupid assertion) but it does mean that there is a problem with male violence.

ArcheryAnnie Tue 17-Oct-17 18:24:16

I've taken part in a lot of the discussions, and I honestly haven't seen anyone try to claim that one sex (sex, not gender) is perfect. I certainly don't believe it.

But it's not really about being perfect anyway. It's about acknowledging that the vast majority of violent acts, including sexual assaults, are committed by men as a class. This doesn't mean every single man is guilty, or that every single woman is innocent, but it does mean that we should look very closely and clearly at why one half of society is responsible for a huge proportion of the assaults. You can't even start to fix a problem if you don't name it, and so I think it's really important to name male violence as the problem here.

napmeistergeneral Tue 17-Oct-17 18:25:49

To be honest, you are correct in that what you've written isn't very articulate and it's unclear what your point is. Some men arent abusers and some women are? I'm not sure anyone would have an issue with acknowledging that. But the Weinstein issue is about the systemic abuse of power, not "hating on all men".

ButchyRestingFace Tue 17-Oct-17 18:25:58

but there are many men in the world that aren't abusers

But the majority of violent criminals and abusers are men.

Which is entirely different to saying man = abuser/violent.

NoCryLilSoftSoft Tue 17-Oct-17 18:26:07

Can you clarify that you think being male is a gender?? I can't get further than that tbh

CherryChasingDotMuncher Tue 17-Oct-17 18:27:53

So in summary : NAMALT

YABU.

In the U.K. 96% of violent crime (including sexual violence) is committed by men. 1 in 5 crimes are violent crimes against women.

If it offends you that women want to discuss how this is a problem for them, then I’m afraid you’re part of that problem.

NoCryLilSoftSoft Tue 17-Oct-17 18:28:03

Really what it sounds like Op is saying is "yeah, we get it, men abuse women, I'm bored of it, can you stop saying it now?"

DaemonPantalaemon Tue 17-Oct-17 18:28:25

I am sorry to say that once you start your third sentence with "Don't get me wrong", you have already lost whatever point it is you are failing to make.

Frankly, your argument is tedious. It is a given that when women about rape, abuse and sexual harassment, they are not saying all men everywhere are rapists and abusers. So what's your point? That not all men are everywhere are rapists and abusers? Okay, yes. And?

deadringer Tue 17-Oct-17 18:31:05

Yabu

Floellabumbags Tue 17-Oct-17 18:37:22

I genuinely don't know what the point of your OP is other than man-pleasing rape apologism.

OohMavis Tue 17-Oct-17 18:39:29

Women are angry, we have every right to be. Yes, all of us.

I can be angry and still love my husband, still love all four of my brothers, still love my son. It's not mutually exclusive.

Yourownworstenemy Tue 17-Oct-17 18:41:55

As I stated I am not particularly articulate and a few things I've said have been misconstrued, which happens a lot when I try and make a point I haven't fully cleared in my own head.

What sparked this post was a post I saw on social media that really quite heavily implied that it was sort of ' all women against all men' which I just felt was quite unfair on the many men in the world that aren't doing horrendous things.

I am aware that most victims of sexual crimes are women, and most perpetrators are men, but that doesn't translate to all men are perpetrators.

That was really my point, I hope I've cleared it up, I understand it's an emotive subject and I fully understand people being passionate about it, and my fear was people would think I was somehow belittling horrendous things that have happened! I absolutely do not intend to do that and it is not how I feel, it's horrendous and we should do everything in our power to end it.

DioneTheDiabolist Tue 17-Oct-17 18:44:23

OP I think YAB a bit U. For so long (decades, centuries, millennia) men have gotten away with assaulting and sexually assaulting women and children. Thanks to women's rights and feminism they are no longer getting away with it quite so easily. People are speaking up, the law and society are taking notice and the shame that victims were previously made to feel is reducing.

These are all good things. They should be discussed. They need to be discussed. It's not about perfection or demonisation of genders. While the tidal wave of historical abuses are being dealt with, this conversation will continue.

Yourownworstenemy Tue 17-Oct-17 18:44:40

I've just 're read my reply and seen I'll probably get flamed for saying it implied 'all women against all men' to clarify I agree we should ALL stand together against these sorts of crimes, but rather than being all women against all men surely it should be all none perpetrators against all perpetrators?

Eolian Tue 17-Oct-17 18:45:16

YABU. Most women have experienced some kind of sexual assault or harrassment by men. What percentage of men do you imagine have experienced sexual assault or harrassment by women?

Are all men evil rapists and abusers? No. But seeing women as sex objects or as inferior to men is so deeply ingrained in society that women regularly experience sexist behaviour and attitudes even from men who are generally 'nice' and non-threatening.

So asking whether abusiveness is actually biologically part of being a man but not part of being a woman is pretty pointless, because you can't really ever separate a human being's behaviour from the conditioning that comes from the society they grew up in. Male on female aggression, abuse and sexual assault is rife. Saying 'some women do bad stuff too' is minimising that.

upperlimit Tue 17-Oct-17 18:46:38

Women are capable of monstrous acts of violence, physical and sexual. What does this tell us? That there is nothing inherent to femaleness that prevents us from acting violently.

So when we see that men, as a class, are the main perpetrators of violence against women, children and other men, it is clear that it is pertinent to discuss what the fuck is wrong with maleness/ men/ masculinity to cause this difference.

We could stick out head in the sand to preserve this idea that it's all even-stevens. That's not working out so well.

I'm lucky enough to have a kind DH and three kind sons but the battle-cry of NAMALT is not going to keep them safe from the other maladjusted men.

WhyDidIEatThat Tue 17-Oct-17 18:47:42

What do you want, everyone to pretend most of the violent crime in the world isn’t perpetrated by men?

CherryChasingDotMuncher Tue 17-Oct-17 18:50:40

I am aware that most victims of sexual crimes are women, and most perpetrators are men, but that doesn't translate to all men are perpetrators

Nobody said it did. HTH

Yourownworstenemy Tue 17-Oct-17 18:52:17

Whydidieatthat that is absolutely not what I said, it is a fact that it is, I just don't think it's fair that my son or my father or brother or any other Innocent man should be seen as guilty of a crime another man has committed

Yourownworstenemy Tue 17-Oct-17 18:52:21

Whydidieatthat that is absolutely not what I said, it is a fact that it is, I just don't think it's fair that my son or my father or brother or any other Innocent man should be seen as guilty of a crime another man has committed

Yourownworstenemy Tue 17-Oct-17 18:52:50

Whydidieatthat that is absolutely not what I said, it is a fact that it is, I just don't think it's fair that my son or my father or brother or any other Innocent man should be seen as guilty of a crime another man has committed.

Yourownworstenemy Tue 17-Oct-17 18:52:55

Whydidieatthat that is absolutely not what I said, it is a fact that it is, I just don't think it's fair that my son or my father or brother or any other Innocent man should be seen as guilty of a crime another man has committed.

Yourownworstenemy Tue 17-Oct-17 18:53:51

Whydidieatthat that is absolutely not what I said, it is a fact that it is, I just don't think it's fair that my son or my father or brother or any other Innocent man should be seen as guilty of a crime another man has committed.

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