To think Catalonia is being selfish

[SupportTheresaElseBoris]

It seems to basically be about money, with some history mixed in.

But isn't that how most countries work - a small area makes a large part of the money and it's taxes are distributed across to beneif the whole country? That's how londom and the south east works and I've never heard anyone not like the arrangement.

We are now close to civil war in Europe and it could really derail the brexit process.

[EllaHen]

YABU

Massively so.

[fartgate]

I am Scottish, living in Scotland and I totally opposed leaving the UK. I was and still am dead against it so I find it hard to support catalonia's arguement for leaving Spain but I suppose, like Scotland, you need to let the people speak and have a voice.

[HopefullyAnonymous]

YABU. Read more about it.

[elQuintoConyo]

Que coño dices?

Can you come say that in Barcelona's Plaça Catalunya, through a megaphone?

I think you're a GF, especially with that username.

[FittonTower]

"Basically about money" and "could really derail the brexit process"
I'm gonna stick my neck out and say you're bored this morning......

[implantsandaDyson]

You’ve never heard of anyone complain about how London and the south east work? Not blessed with brains are you?

[SupportTheresaElseBoris]

Please post links rather than just an "educate yourself" post.

I've read several articles and I still don't support Catalonia, but that doesn't mean I support Madrid either.

Is it not mainly about money?

[SupportTheresaElseBoris]

That's not what I said, I've not seen any support for an independent London.

[howthelightgetsin]

Do we have to support either? It's not our fight. My only opinion is that the Spanish police seem to have been far too heavy handed and that I feel sorry for the Catalan police force who were put in an extremely awkward position.

[SupportTheresaElseBoris]

It's not out fight, but it will affect us all if it goes out of control.

[Zoll]

Government spending in London (esp on actually economically useful projects) is so massively more than in other regions. You are misinformed if you think nobody in Yorkshire has a problem with the fact that the Gov spends £190 per head on transport up here and £1,940 per head in London.

fullfact.org/economy/councils-london-spend-more-head/
fullfact.org/economy/regional-investment-transport/

[AgainPlease]

Here is a good place to start:
History of Catalonia

Also Catalan independence movement

They have wanted independence for years and years and years. Theres a huge separatist movement and many Catalonian's see themselves intrinsically different to the Spanish.

Same could be said for the Basque region.

[howthelightgetsin]

Yes but I've read countless articles on it and spoken to about 10 Spanish colleagues and I realise that I won't understand it ever. It's a cultural thing - so "ethic" Catalonians who make up something like 40-45% of the Catalan population always favour independence and the support for independence seems to be extremely static. I guess unless I lived there I wouldn't understand what it's about?
It was an illegal vote but at the same time if there is no way of voting legally (not like they could ever have been given a vote), what should you do? I have sympathy for the idea that they want a say. At the same time people have proved that you could have voted multiple times and support seems under 50% so surely that's that?
It's not a new thing it just seems to have escalated this time and Rajoy probably is to blame for some of that. I don't know if they should be independent but I just know the police actions looked appalling.

[SlackerMum1]

Plenty of people taking about/ campaigning for an independent London! There has been a whole campaign for ages and several petitions after Brexit for London to go it alone. Another article in the FT just this week....

[Zoll]

Secondly, many people in London wish to leave the UK. Here are a hundred and eighty thousand of them: petition to leave the UK. And here are fifty three thousand people wishing for the North to secede and join Scotland: www.change.org/p/the-uk-government-allow-the-north-of-england-to-secede-from-the-uk-and-join-scotland

And don't forget Scotland! These are just silly petitions but they are evidence of a sentiment that is alive in the UK. London doesn't like the UK much and the North is fed up of being under its boot. These tensions seem based in economic inequalities that could be remedied politically but won't be. There are examples of the same dynamic in many EU countries, not just Spain, though there it is the most pronounced after us. One consideration for EU countries if Scotland had seceded was all the implications for their own separatist movements. And there are many:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_Europe

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Secondly, many people in London wish to leave the UK. Here are a hundred and eighty thousand of them: petition to leave the UK. And here are fifty three thousand people wishing for the North to secede and join Scotland

Out of a population of how many millions?

I'm of the same view as fartgate on this. And of course allowing a referendum which the separatists lose, won"t stop them demanding another one.

[Zoll]

The OP said " I've not seen any support for an independent London."

180k people is evidence of some support. That's all. Don't over-interpret my statements. I mean what I say.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

The northern cities feel far greater affinity with their Scottish counterparts such as Glasgow and Edinburgh than with the ideologies of the London-centric south

That in itself is twaddle. Glasgow and Dundee voted for separatism in our separatist referendum, Edinburgh voted overwhelmingly to stay in the UK. On Brexit Ediburgh voted overwhelmingly to remain - so did Oxford, Cambridge, Bath, Exeter, Norwich , Winchester,Bristol and Brighton.

[Zoll]

No idea who you're quoting but it's not on this thread.

[EdmundCleverClogs]

We are now close to civil war in Europe and it could really derail the brexit process.

Oh no, and Brexit was going so well. Those silly Europeans thinking of their own wants over the great British empire once again, it's almost like they couldn't give a shit about our own stupid political choices.

The lack of democracy shown by the Spanish government is worrying in itself, regardless of the vote. If Catalonia can't even vote (whether you agree with it or not) without being subjected to violence, how do you think the Catalan people feel most of the time?

[heateallthebuns]

Yes yabu they feel like a separate nation and want self determination.

[SupportTheresaElseBoris]

I've not seen those petitions before and most of my friends live in London. I highly suspect they were voted on mainly by Scottish and other separatists movements rather than many people in London.

My boyfriend is Spanish (Malaga) and I guess his views and of his friends and family have informed me. I know the history of Catalonia, it's like many different regions in Spain that see themselves as different. The main difference is they have lots of wealth creation in the area so can push for separation where as lots of the other regions can't.

That exactly morningrunner!

[notaflyingmonkey]

People being beaten when exercising their democratic right to vote. In Europe. How inconvenient for us.

[sauceyorange]

If you're bored, OP, why not just go for a run or, I don't know, go to the library?

Rather than just listing all your tedious prejudices for us.