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to ask opinions on this IVF court case?

(280 Posts)
iogo Fri 06-Oct-17 12:46:13

I've had a quick look but can't see another thread, apologies if there is one.

I've just read this story on the BBC about a man losing his court case for damages against an IVF clinic where his ex wife forged his signature to undergo a second round of IVF after they'd split, resulting in a daughter.

I feel so desperately sorry for that child and the man involved. I can't quite wrap my head around what his ex wife did. I can understand the court not forcing the clinic to pay damages such as school fees, future wedding etc. I can understand the father not wanting to pay for the upkeep of the child and I'm not sure it's fair to make him. But then how unfair would it be to pay maintenance and school fees for one child but not the full sibling (I mention school fees as it's mentioned in the article so I'm presuming the older sibling goes to private school and the ex wife was in a position to be able to afford priveate IVF as the NHS is not mentioned)

BBC link www.bbc.com/news/health-41525215

RavingRoo Fri 06-Oct-17 12:53:37

Yes it was wrong. Yes the mum behaved illegally. But the man’s daughter is in the middle of this. If he had been any kind of a good human being he would have found a way to honour his responsibilities as a parent to her - even if it was a transfer of money to a trust in her name which only she can access. The guy seems like he’s punishing his ex-wife at all costs and this will come at the cost of his relationship with his son.

Wherearemymarbles Fri 06-Oct-17 12:57:00

Similar ethics to a case many years ago where after a ONS the woman impregnated herself with sperm from the condom then took the guy to court for maintenance, which she got.
Whatever the means of conception the father still has a responsibility for his child. I think in this case the man is paying up willingly, ie he wouldn't have to pay school fee's etc if he didn't want to.

BlueSapp Fri 06-Oct-17 12:58:40

She was wrong to forge the signiture, I can understand perhaps her desperation for a baby and this is why, but however this child came about she deserves to be loved by her father, if he was a decent man he wouldnt drag it all around the courts to potentilly humiliate his daughter.

Justdontknow4321 Fri 06-Oct-17 12:59:12

He shouldn't have to pay maintenance if he doesn't want to. He didnt want the child and she forged his signature I guess. She wanted the child that badly, she should pay for everything. It's her own fault.

Didntcomeheretofuckspiders Fri 06-Oct-17 13:00:29

Why is he suing the clinic though? It's the mother's who was deceitful and she is the one in the wrong. I think if she was that desperate to have another baby, she should be willing to shoulder full financial responsibility!

That said, it's very sad that that poor little girl may grow up feeling unwanted by her father. And let's face it, many mothers become intentionally pregnant without consulting their partner, and those fathers don't get to take anyone to court!

PinkHeart5914 Fri 06-Oct-17 13:00:36

Yes the woman was wrong, She forged his signature!

I also think that as she forged the signature that he shouldn’t be made to pay for the child’s upkeep. He did NOT consent to the ivf.

RavingRoo Fri 06-Oct-17 13:01:18

I suspect this man will change his mind about her when grandkids come into the picture. And by then, it’s likely neither of his children will want anything to do with him. It’s such a shame he’s doing this - taking a criminal case up with the ex is one thing, but he’s now punishing his daughter for her mum’s mistakes which is wrong.

2014newme Fri 06-Oct-17 13:02:57

I'm guessing in future the clinic will require both parties to sign in their presence. He's suing the clinic because he believes that they were negligent in carrying out the procedure without his permission. They obviously thought her bring in paper with his signature was fine. He does not agree

abbsisspartacus Fri 06-Oct-17 13:03:09

I think he should be allowed to terminate his parental rights in these circumstances

moggle Fri 06-Oct-17 13:04:08

I don't feel like he's not a decent man purely because he has done this, I think clinics do need to be forced to consider best procedure in situations like this and court action could well be the only way. I expect there were other avenues he explored before it came to this particular court case. Having said that of course I hope he's doing his utmost to keep this all away from the daughter who must now be 5/6. We have no idea if he treats them any differently day to day - I really doubt it - I expect it's the principle he is fighting here. I can't imagine how he could have taken the ex wife to court - fraud? - so I guess this is the only alternative.

I think the clinic SHOULD insist on seeing both parents again in the flesh after a gap like this (says that first child was conceived at the clinic in 2008 and in oct 2010 she forged the signature). Certainly that is what happened at our clinic although I don't know if they insist on it.

Osolea Fri 06-Oct-17 13:06:24

That poor bloke! He shouldn't be expected to pay a penny for a child that was created without his knowledge or consent.

If he doesn't want to parent this child, that doesn't make him any less of a good human being. I think it's very unfair to say that if he was decent or a good human being then he'd want to. That attitude isn't tolerated towards women who have terminations, and rightly so, but they have far more responsibility towards children they don't want than this man does.

Fishface77 Fri 06-Oct-17 13:06:40

I think the mum should be jailed.
Obviously not in the best interests of the children but she shouldn't be allowed to get away with this.
Disgusting.

Fishface77 Fri 06-Oct-17 13:07:08

And he shouldn't be made to pay.

5rivers7hills Fri 06-Oct-17 13:08:09

And let's face it, many mothers become intentionally pregnant without consulting their partner, and those fathers don't get to take anyone to court!

If a man doesn't want to father a child, he can wear a condom during sex. If you don't take personal responsibility for contraception you can't act like you didn't want a baby.

5rivers7hills Fri 06-Oct-17 13:08:59

I think he should be allowed to terminate his parental rights in these circumstances

Me too.

MimiSunshine Fri 06-Oct-17 13:09:29

I dont think it's anything to do with him
Being a decent man. he shouldn't have to shut up and put up with it and to be honest his children deserve to know what kind of woman their mother is, nothing justifies her behaviour and the clinic should be held somewhat accountable for a lack of verification on the part of the process

existentialmoment Fri 06-Oct-17 13:10:52

I don't really feel sorry for hi, He consented to the fertilisation of the embryos, so biologically his input was over, if it was a natural pregnancy he woudn;t have had any say about it.

Legally she was wrong, yes. And the clinic should have had better procedure. But the child is his, he consented to her creation in the first instance, and he needs to support her fully.

BlueSapp Fri 06-Oct-17 13:11:15

The Child should in no way be deprived it is not her fault

scottishdiem Fri 06-Oct-17 13:13:36

He was suing the clinic as he has additional expenses in terms of providing for his daughter in the same way as he provides for his son.

There is a high degree of anonymisation here so it is all about how he treats his daughter and nothing suggests he treats her differently. He doesnt appear to have wanted to terminate his rights as her father so I dont think he has done anything wrong here at all.

Clinics have changed their procedures on the back of this case and I suspect men will be much more cautious about what happens to sperm etc if a relationship ends after IVF. The idea that a woman can bring a child into the world well after the relationship has ended (and she wasn't pregnant when it did end) without the fathers consent is alarming.

LoverOfCake Fri 06-Oct-17 13:15:19

No he absolutely shouldn't have to pay for a child he didn't even know was being conceived. If it was a woman she could have had a termination, he had no choice in the matter and the conception happened fraudulently. The clinic should have destroyed the embrio's when the couple got divorced.

And the mother should be jailed and the welfare of her children considered in the process. She had no thoughts about what was best for her children, only fulfilling her own selfish desires and she was prepared to break the law to get what she wanted. She should have the book thrown at her.

If I were the father in fact I wouldn't be paying maintenance, I'd be going to court for residency.

2014newme Fri 06-Oct-17 13:15:32

@existentialmoment he did not consent to the creation of the child. He consented previously to the creation of the embryo. He never consented for the procedure that would enable the stored embryo to become a baby I. E the implantation, to take place. The fact that implementation requires a seperate consent procedure, which the mother forged, shows that he never consented to it.
He should not have to pay for the child.
The mother is highly selfish, manipulating and committed fraud

scottishdiem Fri 06-Oct-17 13:16:09

he consented to her creation in the first instance

Depends on your view of IVF etc. He consented to the donation of sperm and the creation of an embryo. He did not consent to what then happened to it. Its a multi-stage process where consent has to be given at each stage. Kind of like sex really.

LoverOfCake Fri 06-Oct-17 13:18:12

What a load of absolute bollocks being spouted on this thread. If he didn't want a baby he should have worn a condom? You do know these were IVF embrio's don't you? And if the pregnancy had occurred naturally he would have had to deal with it? Except the pregnancy didn't occur naturally. At the point they separated there were to be no more pregnancies, it wouldn't be ok to force him to have sex with her so she could have a baby, forging his signature at an IVF clinic is even more dishonest. So let's not pretend that he was in any way at fault here, he wasn't and she is a deceitful bitch.

Bubblebubblepop Fri 06-Oct-17 13:19:37

I have sympathy for him but tbh at the time you created those embryos and agreed to their freezing you basically agreed to this.

Obviously the woman was wrong but there is no real recompense for him for that. The issue is the child needs financial support from
The father (obviously not including school fees but the normal amount every parent needs to pay under CSA rules)

I'm not sure it makes sense to terminate parental rights. He knew those frozen embryos - potential children he made- were there. Not sure if he made any effort to have them destroyed?

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