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to be annoyed with this topless lady?

(582 Posts)
user3785022135267845922 Fri 18-Aug-17 13:09:35

... we r on holiday in a family resort in sunny country. There is a lady who keeps ending up on the sun loungers opposite us, who seems to enjoy lying topless by the pool everyday. She has a DS who looks about 15, and a DD who looks about 5.

I think it's really inappropriate to sunbathe topless on a family resort in full view of everyone and right by the toddler pool, and with her own DS around. Am I being unreasonable in feeling uncomfortable and wishing she'd cover up?? smile

VeryCunningStunt Mon 21-Aug-17 15:54:47

I told my DH that most of you believe that "breasts are not a sexual thing". He said that "99.999999% of men disagree".

Ah, so we're back to allowing the male gaze to define and determine female body choices, are we? hmm

HerOtherHalf Mon 21-Aug-17 15:56:56

Maybe nipple tassels are the way forward.

Handy for keeping the insects away if your twirling skills are good too.

OuchLegoHurts Mon 21-Aug-17 15:59:04

Does nobody else have extremely erogenous breasts? I get incredibly turned on by my nipples and to be honest, if I was walking around with my breasts on display I would be very aroused..I'm not saying that's normal, maybe it's not, but that's a good reason for me to keep my bikini top on blush

VeryCunningStunt Mon 21-Aug-17 16:00:21

What does it matter what some random bloke on the other side of the pool thinks anyway?

All female behaviours must be perceived through the lens of the male perspective. Did you not get the memo? If a man cannot stop looking at your tits and it's causing friction with his wife. you're duty bound to cover them up out of deference.

He, conversely, is not obliged to alter his actions in any way, shape, or form. HTH wink

OuchLegoHurts Mon 21-Aug-17 16:01:18

Just to clarify, I mean it's not only men that view breasts as sexual, for some women, such as myself, it would feel too intimate and sexual to have their breasts on view...I hope that makes some sense!

mohicipesa Mon 21-Aug-17 16:01:39

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WiggleYourWoo Mon 21-Aug-17 16:03:17

Female breasts are considered sexual in real life. It's only on mumsnet that they are not! 🤔

mohicipesa Mon 21-Aug-17 16:03:56

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

VeryCunningStunt Mon 21-Aug-17 16:04:12

I am inclined to think that most men don't only view women's breasts as just a method for feeding a baby

I don't understand what that has to do with a women's view of breasts as functional vs sexual vs fuck all to do with anyone else because it's her body?

Bluntness100 Mon 21-Aug-17 16:12:24

It is even possible to admire a nice pair of boobs without being driven into a sexual frenzy, you know

I don't think anyone said a pair of naked breasts by the pool drove men into a sexual frenzy, why take it to silly extremes confused

I don't understand what that has to do with a women's view of breasts as functional vs sexual vs fuck all to do with anyone else because it's her body?

Some women view them as sexual, some not, the point is uou can't control what other people view them as. Just because you personally think your or others breasts are purely functional doesn't mean other men or women agree with you. You can go topless and see them as functional only, getting outraged because others think otherwise isn't going to change their views.

hmm

BlueKarou Mon 21-Aug-17 16:16:28

I also think many woman feed discreetly covering their breasts, and don't flout them! Which again makes it different I think!

Was the sunbather flouting her breasts? Jiggling them about in time to music? Or just lying there with them on display?

VeryCunningStunt Mon 21-Aug-17 16:23:30

getting outraged because others think otherwise isn't going to change their views

My point is that it shouldn't matter at all how some bloke across the pool chooses to view your breasts. It's got bog all to do with him, his wife, or anyone else within eye-shot whether you choose to cover them or not, legalities allowing. Why does his view of your breasts, or breasts in general, automatically become accepted as the primary viewpoint?

Whether some random across the pool think my breasts are the sexiest breasts he's ever seen or the saddest, saggiest dugs he's ever clapped eyes on doesn't have any relevance to my decision to wear or not wear a bikini top.

fluffiphlox Mon 21-Aug-17 16:25:13

I think we need to stop worrying about what the men think.

Toddlers4HenDos Mon 21-Aug-17 16:42:41

I think we need to stop worrying about what the men think.
Agreed.
But what about the women who think like this too?

GladAllOver Mon 21-Aug-17 16:48:09

But what about the women who think like this too?
Tell them to mind their own business and go back to their Daily Mail. At least they put blanks into over their celebs' nipples.

Emboo19 Mon 21-Aug-17 16:49:19

Really this is all about women's nipples though, isn't?
When I wear a bikini my breast are still pretty much on show. The only real difference when I'm topless, is they can see my nipples! So what's so much more sexual about a women's nipples to a mans?

VeryCunningStunt Mon 21-Aug-17 16:52:58

I think we need to stop worrying about what the men think

But, but someone asked their husband and he told us what 99.99% of all men in the whole world think, so as women it's our duty to allow their opinion dictate our actions, isn't it?!

fluffiphlox Mon 21-Aug-17 17:08:12

grin

Bluntness100 Mon 21-Aug-17 17:08:50

I think we need to stop worrying about what the men think

The op is a woman.

squoosh Mon 21-Aug-17 17:09:19

Yeah, we know that.

Witsender Mon 21-Aug-17 17:47:43

The OP is cross on behalf of the son, and her husband though. So cross because of the men.

fluffiphlox Mon 21-Aug-17 17:50:56

I'm well aware that the OP is a woman thank you.

Toddlers4HenDos Mon 21-Aug-17 18:07:08

Imagine if we all lived our lives liken the OP wants us too.

I means she is offended by boobs. But may people are offended by seeing women full stop and we would need to consider them too. The OP would be lying poolside covered head to tip toe in black, actually maybe just being out in sunlight would offend some people so she would be sitting indoors. lovely holiday.

Or we could all just realise "its not about me" and go about our lives giving no fucks and refusing to be body shamed by the likes of the OP and her uncontrollably horny man people.

motherinferior Mon 21-Aug-17 18:08:11

Straight man people.

LoniceraJaponica Mon 21-Aug-17 18:14:18

"I don't understand what that has to do with a women's view of breasts as functional vs sexual vs fuck all to do with anyone else because it's her body?"

You have missed my point spectacularly.

Disn3yN3rd Mon 21-Aug-17 18:17:10

Boobs are boobs. I don't see the fuss. If you don't like them, don't look.

Society sexualises body parts much too much.

Toddlers4HenDos Mon 21-Aug-17 18:18:13

well apparently 99.999999% of men find breasts sexual, so possibly even GTB men can't control themselves around the boobs. And what about the lesbians shock

motherinferior Mon 21-Aug-17 18:22:26

The humble nipple has such erotic power!

Flashinggreen Mon 21-Aug-17 18:23:05

Recently on holiday in Cyprus there was a woman sunbathing topless and my nephew (12) commented on it in a way that he meant he thought she should cover up. We (including my 11YO) old son then talked about why shouldn't she be able to if the men are. Well I told them that, if she wants to then it's up to her.

yummycake123 Mon 21-Aug-17 18:44:30

YABU, it's only boobs! If the laws of the country allow people to go topless, then it's her right to go topless.
How you (or others) react to the fact she's topless is your problem.

Aznmum Mon 21-Aug-17 20:01:14

"and with her own DS around."

Why is the DS especially of note?

Isn't the DD more of a concern, if you think this is inappropriate, because the mother is setting the example for her that this is an okay thing for women to do?

Are you trying to imply that sons are more likely to be embarrassed by topless sunbathing than daughters?

If the DS is 15 and the DD is 5, I think the DS would be more likely to remember his mom's boobs already (from seeing her breastfeed the DD) so isn't the DD seeing them more of a concern (since she might have forgotten them otherwise)?

Or are you implying there's something incestuous here that can, for some reason, only happen between opposite-gender family members?

Witheredtits Mon 21-Aug-17 20:05:50

I agree with op, think it's a bit weird and inappropriate

CatsAreAssholes Mon 21-Aug-17 20:30:24

It's biology. Watch a program on some ancient tribes, where women go topless as a matter of course and breasts have never been sexualised the males in the tribe still find them sexual. Arguing otherwise is very naive. There is no sign on a woman that says today, or uou can find them sexual, tomorrow and you, can't. You can't control other people's reactions and for straight men breasts are indeed sexual.

that's wrong and you've just made it up and it's completely cultural that western men lust after tits like a starving 5 month old.

squoosh Mon 21-Aug-17 20:36:58

I'm going to ask my friend if she wants to catch a few days in the sun. We can re-enact this painting, whilst pouting across the pool at Clive from Swindon.

CatsAreAssholes Mon 21-Aug-17 20:41:12

Lady at the back:

"Put your fucking clothes on! Weirdos. Tsh"

GladAllOver Mon 21-Aug-17 23:33:16

I never realised until I read this thread that there were still women stuck in the Victorian age.
Men have always eyed up women whatever they wear or don't wear. If you don't like that, wear a burka - they are designed for the purpose.
If you wear a bikini, your breasts can be seen but with a thin cover of cloth.
If you take off the top, your nipples can also be seen. Is that so very different?

ByGum Tue 22-Aug-17 14:57:44

It's about context.

In a sexual setting breast can be sexual.

If I'm straddling my husband and riding him like a bull, then yeah, my breasts may be arousing and sexual in that setting. On a sun lounger surrounded by families and our own dc? Not so much!!

Its not the topless women minding their own business who are inappropriate ffs, it's the men who think a woman's breasts are always sexual and for his pleasure, regardless of how the woman feels or intends them.

I would feel uncomfortable if my Dh sat staring at a sunbathing woman's pair of tits on holiday, but it wouldn't be the woman's behaviour, it would be his, totally inappropriate of the man to make his wife and children watch him get distracted and excited at a pair of breasts. The type of man who does this, wouldn't be put off by a bikini top either, he'd still be letching and ogling, it's not the topless sunbathers problems that some of us are married to cavemen. If a man really can't be with his family, on a family holiday, in a family resort without being sexually excited by women sunbathing topless and minding her own business with her own family, then it's him who is inappropriate and probably shouldn't be in a family resort if he can't control himself.

Bluntness100 Tue 22-Aug-17 15:01:44

that's wrong and you've just made it up and it's completely cultural

Omg, I am actually struggling with how ignorant you are on this subject. Women's breasts are erogenous the world over, even in tribes where there is no media. Honestly, educate yourself. And I deleted the rest of your sentence because of the crudity, there is nothing wrong with men finding breasts sexually attractive.

Why does it disturb you so much?

Circumlocutor Tue 22-Aug-17 15:06:55

I deleted the rest of your sentence because of the crudity

Bless

DodgyGround Tue 22-Aug-17 15:40:46

Nobody answered my point about swimming pools though. Why don't women go topless like men there?

Oh and you're kidding yourself if you think breasts aren't sexual as well as functional (mammary glands, I think one user said!). When I'm having sex I get totally turned on by having my breasts exposed and/or touched. Don't care about my legs or arms, or stomach or back. I know for some, they'll say it does nothing for them, but try and tell my orgasm that. And if they weren't sexual (as well as functional, can't forget the breastfeeding), then there never would have been a page 3 girl and the like, would there?

Bluntness100 Tue 22-Aug-17 16:15:16

Bless

grin

minoandolphin Tue 22-Aug-17 16:27:45

Love the people so annoyed through to utterly horrified that their DH/DP might see another woman's breasts.

Unless you have personally ensured that he has no access to the internet without the safety settings up to maximum, never watches films rated over PG, never watches TV past the watershed, never casually leafs through his Dad's copy of the Daily Star, and has never seen ANY film starring Eddie Murphy from the 80's....he's seen other women's breasts.

If you think he's going to leap over the sunbeds and declare his undying love for a strange woman because she took her top off then either you have a serious problem or your DH does.

As for kids, I don't think they'll be traumatised by a woman just hanging out (so to speak) at the pool with her top off.

Jedimum1 Tue 22-Aug-17 19:34:31

Completely agree with CatsAreAsshole. You'll be surprised to know how much stuff that we take for granted as "natural" and "biological" does not apply to all societies. From societies not having (or understanding the need of) prostitution, to people choosing gender without complications, to a city where most children are born "girls" and actually some develop male genitals before puberty. That must be something, equal upbringing.

CatsAreAssholes that's wrong and you've just made it up and it's completely cultural

broadblogs.com/2010/11/04/men-aren%E2%80%99t-hard-wired-to-find-breasts-attractive/

www.reddit.com/r/AskAnthropology/comments/1t0eia/is_there_any_society_that_does_not_sexualize/

Jedimum1 Tue 22-Aug-17 19:35:22

(the "that's wrong..." It's the quote!)

StickThatInYourPipe Tue 22-Aug-17 19:36:35

What exactly is offensive about her breasts - are they spouting curse words as people go past?

Hahahahaha!! Rude-boobs! Sorry this made me laugh A LOt

CatsAreAssholes Tue 22-Aug-17 20:05:51

Omg, I am actually struggling with how ignorant you are on this subject

I can tell you're correct by your use of OMG and your failure to provide evidence to the contrary.

The fact is that what is considered beautiful and sexual to the opposite sex depends on the area of the world and the particular culture you're in.

I don't know any men who find tiny deformed feet a turn on but ask a man in China around 1900 and he'd tell you how beautiful a tiny deformed foot could be.

It is a fact that men in other cultures find it hilarious that western man are in to breasts as they're for children.

Your orgasms aren't some how more really relevant than other women's hmm So I'm not sure what your point about erogenous zones is. Yes breasts are an erogenous zone. So are my lips, my thighs, the back of my knees, my neck, my ear lobe stops before I come over all funny those don't need to be covered because unless I'm having sex they're not being sexual all the time. Do you walk around in a state on near orgasm? hmm

If a woman can breastfeed it's proof she not having an orgasm any time her tits are loose.

And the fact is people aren't upset about women's erogenous zones being uncovered, they're upset about women's bits that men find erogenous being uncovered.

coconuttella Tue 22-Aug-17 20:11:09

I'd argue that many of the outfits that are deemed acceptable in most workplaces, let alone outside them, are far more sexually provocative ( lipstick, figure-hugging skirt above knee, high heels, bra to ensure boobs appear perky) than a woman who happens to be topless by a pool without any accessories that emphasise her sexual virility.

The presence of a visible nipple is very little in itself, and it's importance totally overblown by the OP... The sad result is that this warped belief that visible nipples are somehow unacceptably sexual when other far more sexually potent, though marginally less revealing, outfits are fine, will reduce mothers' confidence to breast feed publicly.

Luncharmstrong Tue 22-Aug-17 20:26:05

I have massive norks. They draw a crowd even when covered.
No way would I expose them to the world.
What's wrong with a bit of modesty ?

CatsAreAssholes Tue 22-Aug-17 20:30:46

What's wrong with a bit of modesty ?

Nothin if that's what you feel comfortable with. But if someone who is not as blessed of nork (or in fact significantly more blessed of nork feels more comfortable with an airing it's her business

GladAllOver Wed 23-Aug-17 11:43:34

What's wrong with a bit of modesty ?
Nothing at all. Your body, your choice what to cover. You can wear a top and shouldn't be criticised for it.

In the same way, someone who chooses not to wear a top shouldn't be criticised for it either.

Wtfparenting Thu 24-Aug-17 18:42:52

OK OK so this is where the hate comes I suppose ... Men have less intimate parts than women yes breast are classed as intimate parts .. - a man cannot walk on a beach showing any intimate body part this is just creepy and unacceptable and women should be the same , breasts should not be exposed in public unless for feeding a child . and she has her son of 15 there that is just creepy if my mother done that I would be mortified ( if your to warm go to the shade ) no haters please only putting forward mine and my partners oppinion as all of you are more than welcome to do as well smile

Nancy91 Thu 24-Aug-17 21:18:45

You can see most of a woman's breasts in a bikini anyway, so if she wants to go topless then good for her. I always go topless when I sunbathe abroad - no tan lines. This isn't a rare thing to see.

Mysteryone Thu 24-Aug-17 23:20:26

Everyone saying there just tits are talking utter nonsense. They are classed as private parts and should be kept that way. If a woman touched a man's nipple / moob no one would bat an eyelid yet if a man touched a woman's boob all hell would break loose.

RebelRogue Thu 24-Aug-17 23:29:26

@Mysteryone do you know many women that randomly touch strange men's nipples/moobs?

Emboo19 Thu 24-Aug-17 23:51:01

If a woman touched a man's nipple / moob no one would bat an eyelid yet if a man touched a woman's boob all hell would break loose.

I certainly would bat a eyelid if a woman came up to my DP and touched his nipples. He has very lovely nipples and I wouldn't degrudge someone a quick glance, but touching rights are mine no moobs in sight, because he's supper buff

Willow2017 Fri 25-Aug-17 00:59:34

Why are they 'private parts' when mens moobs are not 'private parts'?

And how often have you gone up to a strange man and jiggled his moobs? If you think women do this as a habbit you live in a strange place!

Windytwigs Fri 25-Aug-17 01:11:12

Why are they 'private parts' when mens moobs are not 'private parts'?
Because moobs haven't been sexualised over a long period of history, thank goodness!

GladAllOver Fri 25-Aug-17 09:00:45

Genitals are 'private parts'.
Breasts are just breasts. On men or women.

fluffiphlox Fri 25-Aug-17 09:07:52

I like the degrudge word.

Emboo19 Fri 25-Aug-17 09:17:34

I like the degrudge word.
Oops! I meant begrudge obviously!! Didn't even notice that.
I'll blame the 10 month old deciding to wake me up last night. A crazy little boob obsessed 10 month old at that.

CatsAreAssholes Fri 25-Aug-17 09:23:49

They are classed as private parts

Classed as?!grin. I don't remember there being an official classification system for "private parts"

Are class A private parts the really hard stuff? hmm

Datun Fri 25-Aug-17 10:29:14

For many men, their nipples are highly erogenous. But they don't come over all coy about showing them. Because women simply don't objectify them.

Men can quite easily stop objectifying women if they see a baby attached to her breast.

It really is, as the poster upthread said, all about 'omg, boobies, boobies'.

Something that is definitely cultural, and far more common in the UK than other areas of Europe.

Willow2017 Fri 25-Aug-17 10:35:07

No they really are not!

They are boobs. Same basic tissue as mens moobs are. Men have mammary glands and milk ducts too. Should they be forced to cover up because of this?

I am still wondering where all these people who are who are overcome by the desire to run up to men and women and grab their boobs?

Holidaying abroad where 90% of the women (not me, to shy) were topless I never saw it once.

nina2b Fri 25-Aug-17 10:37:24

Her 15 year old son must hide the fact from his mates. Poor boy!

Willow2017 Fri 25-Aug-17 11:21:20

Whats it got to do with his mates what his mum does on HER holiday?

There is no reason to mention it at all so no reason to 'hide it'!

GladAllOver Fri 25-Aug-17 12:32:34

I think that was a joke willow smile

34AQuid Fri 25-Aug-17 12:36:49

'motor boating in the street' - crying with laughter at that one Nicolas.

OP, is your DH eyeing her up? Go on, be honest....grin

Tro11Hun73r Fri 25-Aug-17 12:40:41

biscuit

Willow2017 Fri 25-Aug-17 12:47:26

Ok fair do's

Faithless Fri 25-Aug-17 13:33:01

Isn't topless sunbathing a bit 1980's? The very few people (women) I've noticed doing it are aged 50+, and I've assumed it was a habit they picked up from their earlier holidaying years. They can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned, but it just seems a bit old school to me (I'm 45). My son would be mortified if I got my tits out in front of him, foreign holiday or not. And I know men get theirs out, but you know, social/ cultural norms and that?

VeryCunningStunt Fri 25-Aug-17 21:57:55

I don't remember there being an official classification system for "private parts"

Did you not get the letter? The government sent it to all households around 18 months ago.

Mysteryone Fri 25-Aug-17 23:21:47

At no point did I say people were actively going round touching other people's boobs / nipples / moobs i was only hypothetically speaking to get the point across of the difference

carolg76 Mon 28-Aug-17 03:41:46

Well where I am from in BC Canada it is legal for a woman to be topless as long as no sexual activity is taking place so I am used to it.
Breasts are just part of the body and people choose to sexualize them.
I never did that with my son. He has been taught that breasts are just part of the body so it's no big deal to him to see them.
I have no issue with it. I have gone topless a lot.
The great thing about kids is that nothing is a big deal unless the adults make it a big deal.
It's only sexual if you make it sexual.

GladAllOver Mon 28-Aug-17 09:03:09

Well said, carolg !

Witsender Mon 28-Aug-17 09:15:45

Some of you would have loved the family festival I was just at, naked boobs a plenty wandering around. Plus the odd fully nude or covered with a wafty sarong style thing.

I didn't see any kids batting an eyelid, nor any teens cringing in embarrassment.

ChevalierTialys Tue 29-Aug-17 15:32:52

You've "made it" into the Daily Mirror OP confused

ArcheryAnnie Tue 29-Aug-17 16:40:14

no haters please only putting forward mine and my partners oppinion

I feel absolutely free, whether you give me permission or not, to react with disgust at the idea women should cover up when men are not required to do so.

I will take this as your partner's opinion, by the way, only when they turn up and speak for themselves.

carefreeeee Tue 29-Aug-17 17:11:48

OP doesn't like it because they are British. Other people in resort probably think it's fine if they come from eg. Germany/France/Spain.

Similar to British people making comments such as 'my body isn't suitable to be seen in a bikini'. Women from other European countries would no more think this than worry that their hands weren't suitable to be seen in public.

Was on holiday in Italy last year and saw many Italian grandma's playing volleyball on the beach in bikini's - their families were just enjoying the sun whilst British women were too self conscious to come out from under their towels.

Gingernaut Tue 29-Aug-17 17:15:17

This debate has made it into the Birmingham Mail.

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/would-you-sunbathe-topless-children-13544641

RileyC1998 Wed 30-Aug-17 08:13:55

I don't see the big deal. I've gone topless at family resorts. If you are subtle about it, there is no problem. I wouldn't go out of my way to provoke anyone, but if you are just tanning, it's pretty easy for people who are offended by the sight of a pair of breasts to just avert their gaze.

GladAllOver Wed 30-Aug-17 16:00:41

it's pretty easy for people who are offended by the sight of a pair of breasts to just avert their gaze.

That's very true Riley, but there are those who cry "Will no-one think of the children!" because they have brought their kids up to think human bodies are disgusting things that will deprave anyone who sees them.

RileyC1998 Wed 30-Aug-17 16:42:31

I mean, if you think about it, what is being said here is that women who want to avoid tan lines up top should not be welcome at family resorts? That's a bit extreme, surely?
Now, if a woman really goes out of her way to provoke people, that's another thing entirely, but if you are just working on your tan, reading a magazine, relaxing and not attracting any more attention to yourself than any other sunbather, I don't see the big deal.

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