To insist to see his credit file?(175 Posts)
Background, DP and I have been together for just over 3 years, cohabiting for 2.5 years.
He earns reasonable money, however when he moved into my house, I found demands from payday lenders shoved into the back of cupboards at his old place. He dismissed these and said they weren't my concern as they were incurred and paid off before we met. Fine, I left it at that.
Last year, a demand came to our house for an old outstanding debt of around £1.7k. AFAIK, he has ignored that completely.
We were going to speak to a mortgage advisor early this year. The night before the apppointment, he broke down and cried, worrying that his credit rating would mean we were unable to get a mortgage. This is the only time I've ever seen him cry. We didn't go to the appointment.
I have today found another demand for late payment, shoved into a drawer, from another company.
WIBU to sit him down tonight and insist he shows me his credit report? We don't have any joint finances, and we are not married but I can't see how we can have a future when his attitude to debt is to hide it like this. I could be being harsh though, as a previous boyfriend declared himself bankrupt whilst we were living together and I had no idea!
Yanbu. You shouldn't join financially until you trust him. Chances are he has lots of old debts in the closet.
You can't get a mortgage if he has so many outstanding debts so you absolutely need to do this. However, he's been lying to you for the next part of 3 years. Do you really think this will magically change? What happens if you're married or have children and you find out he's still doing this?
This would seriously make me reconsider my future with this man.
Don't believe the tears. He only told you because he wouldve had to at the mortgage appointment anyway.
The fact he keeps ignoring it speaks volumes. He probably thought he could run away from it by moving house. In the long term he could cost you everything.
YANBU! Do not financially link yourself to him until he's proven he can be responsible with money - he's obviously not at the moment. He also needs to explain how he got into such a state - what was it all spent on?
Definitely. Failure to do so would be a deal breaker for me. If you're going to be financially linked or start a family you need to know what life will be like for the next 70 years and what you will be dealing with when he does. Too many people presume and hope for the best and get awful shocks. If he ignores commercial debt he'll never pay you maintenance if you split. And the number one reasons relationships fail is due to money.
We sat down together and looked at our credit reports from all 3 agencies before looking at mortgages - that's how I found out he got a (interest free) loan to buy my engagement ring!
You need to sit down together and he needs to tell you exactly what he owes and to whom. If I were you, I would tell him that otherwise the relationship is over. You can't have a future with someone who lies and hides debt like this and you certainly can't link yourself financially to him.
Once you have found out you need to work out whether this is something you can overcome. You need to know why he has these debts. It could be something sinister like a gambling addiction. It could be just simple financial mismanagement/irresponsibility or a symptom of depression. Or it could be a hangover from a time when he was out of work and the debt spiraled. Whatever it is, I don't see how you can continue with him until he gets help in place, faces up to his problems and sets in motion a plan to repay all the debt and live his life differently from now on.
You should ask to see his credit report BUT this is not an immediate sign that the relationship is doomed.
A lot of people fall into debt. It starts off small, credit is cheap so it gets bigger. (The "I'll pay it off next month" phase.) It begins to get so big that a sizeable chunk of your income is spent on paying the interest but not reducing it. Juggling with interest-free introductory periods and so on. (The "I'll pay it off when my wages go up" phase.) Eventually the offers of interest-free credit dry up, you realise that you've fucked up massively, but your income is not enough to pay off the debt and you turn to payday lenders month after month to keep your head above water.
Being in debt does not make someone a bad person, it just means they may have messed up badly. The chances are that by the stage your partner is at he has realised he has messed up but mistakenly believes he will "somehow" be able to sort this all out without your finding out. He feels that if you find out, you'll leave him.
It's rather peverse but he probably thinks he is protecting you somehow by not exposing you to this debt. The human mind is not always rational!
It's difficult to admit to debt to yourself, and difficult to admit it to someone you love. There's never a "good time" to come clean about it. Too soon, you'll be dumped. Once you are confident with the relationship, you feel you can't bring it up because your partner's response will be "why didn't you tell me earlier?"
You should not commit financially to this person until you are confident that they have informed you of their situation, that goes without saying.
I think you should ask to see his credit report in as kind and loving way as is possible in the circumstances. Explain that you are worried about the letters, demands and his previous reaction to the mortgage appointment. You love him and want to help him, but the only way you can do this is if he opens up to you. If he shows you his credit report, you can both make plans as to what is a realistic timeframe for getting outstanding debts payed off and improve his credit score.
He will be very uncomfortable and not want to do it, but only by facing up to the problems can he deal with them. If there is a skeleton in the cupboard, opening up to you and getting it off his chest will be a cathartic experience for him. He will feel better afterwards, because he will no longer be living a lie.
A mass of debt shows poor choices, but poor choices made in the past. Messing up with debt when you are 18, or in your 20s for instance, can leave you saddled with a huge burden into your 30s and 40s. But the person you are in your 30s and 40s is not the same person who made some errors of judgment ten or twenty years earlier.
Men do not usually like to let their loved ones know their weak side or share their problems ... i guess the mortgage appointment forced his hand.
Will be good to have a sit-down with him to see if he is willing to share his problems. This will test your relationship. You may need to have a sense of your own position before speaking with him. Can you accept it if he has mid-to-long-term debt on hand (even if he is able to repay it over time) ? Will your relationship be tested if he is unable to repay (e.g. due to unstable income) and you are not intending to help with the repayments ? Are you able to or do you intend to help him if he comes clean with the source of debt ?
IMHO there is no right or wrong answer (even tho any answer may carry some form of cost) - it's more of understanding your comfort zone.
Just remember debt is time. All those unpaid debts are hours of his and your life that need to be spend paying it back. Being irresponsible with money is the same as being irresponsible with your life.
In my opinion when you combined finances and/or marry, income becomes joint, decisions become joint and debt becomes joint.
Say for eg he had a debt of £1000 on a credit card and gave up work to become a SAHD, I'd think it reasonable for you to repay this monthly/however you want to even if it's not "yours". You cannot have this kind of arrangement with someone who isn't honest about you. He clearly isn't so far, so you need to see his full credit report.
Even if he paid everything off right now it could still take years for him to be in a position where banks will confidently lend to him for a mortgage. Perhaps 5+ years for it to be a good mortgage rate too. So unless you want him dragging you back I'd consider...
Credit report, damage control asap. Once all paid off get him to apply for a credit card with a low limit of say £50-£100. Ensure it's paid off in full every single month/week. It'll take a while to recover with what sounds like substantial arrears (that will appear on his report for a few years even once settled)
Cut him loose.
Stay with him and have a mortgage in your name only.
You say he earns reasonable money. So why is he in debt? Do your wages cover household expenses and how do you split these? Does he pay a fair share and does he pay it on time as agreed or do you keep having to ask?
Are you both saving for the mortgage deposit? When you say 'your house' do you mean one that you own?
Do you think he is just disorganised or does he overspend? How much spare money does he have and what does he appear to spend it on?
I'm not asking you to post the answers on here, but it's what I would want to know before getting into a joint mortgage with someone.
The fact that he owed money to payday lenders is quite worrying actually. Professionals with a decent wage usually have credit card companies throwing themselves at them offering credit. I have about £15,000 in available credit to me right now from credit cards and store cards (even though they have a zero balance). I could probably get more if I wanted. To have to resort to payday loans, you have to have very, very bad credit. If he has ignored demands for payments, it is likely that he has at least one CCJ against him.
Under the circumstances I don't think it unreasonable to ask. However, you really need to think about why you should need to. Relationships are built on things like trust and financial responsibility. If you need to ask him to show you proof of his financial situation then that suggests the trust is not there. If he does indeed have a serious long-term problem with his financial management and attitude towards debt, is that someone you really want to build a future with.
You might decide you want to try and support him and help him become more financially responsible. You might be successful, but you might also be pissing in the wind. If you choose to try, keep an open mind and don't be afraid to call it a day if you decide he is simply not going to change. Also, for now, avoid anything that would constitute a financial association between the two of you as that will pull your credit rating down.
I think asking for full disclosure is essential and of course reasonable
If it turns out he is just shit with money, run for the hills.
I don't think seeing his credit report is going to help you.
What you need to see is evidence of him taking financial matters seriously and behaving responsibly.
Do you think you're likely to see that?
Be very careful - I was in a very similar position to you. I found out around 3 years into living together that he had racked up lots of debts - I paid them off my re-mortgaging my house (in my sole name). Thought that was the end of it. It wasn't! Stupidly married, and then found out more debts (we are talking about £20k each time). Again paid them off. Forward to 16 years together and same thing happened yet again - refused to help him, and so we divorced - lost my house and had to give him around £130000 . Now happily settled in new house with cash help from son and daughter-in-law. Been two years now, and I am still getting phones call (kept old landline) from credit card companies - seems he has spanked the whole lot and ran up more debts in less than 2 years - this leopard did not change his spots!!
I wouldn't get a mortgage with him, regardless of what any credit report says.
His MO is to crumple up payment demands and shove them in a drawer. Unless he changes his approach sharpish, this doesn't bode well for the future.
Do you know why he incurs these debts? Is he living beyond his means?
"In my opinion when you combined finances and/or marry, income becomes joint, decisions become joint and debt becomes joint.
You cannot have this kind of arrangement with someone who isn't honest about you."
I would consider this level of dishonesty and evasion a deal breaker. Now hopefully it can be fixed, but that means cards on the table, full story and allowing you to verify he is telling the truth. Immediately. How will he manage the hard bits of a relationship of he can't be honest about finances?
As PPs have said: please don't get any joint financial products.
From personal experience, I think you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.
In your opening post alone, you have mentioned four cases of financial concern: old payday loan bills, an ignored demand, crying with fear of a mortgage appointment, another final demand.
It sounds like he was already incurring debt before you met, going by the old bills.
He moved in with you after only 6 months. Did you rescue him? Are you supporting him? Why has he continued to take out loans at your address?
Are you sure he's not a cocklodger?
You cannot afford to be connected financially to this man.
He will bring you down with him.
I would be very wary of getting involved financially with this man.
I'll try to answer the questions I can remember. He earns well now and has done for around 5 years. One of the debts date back to 2011. However one of the demands following missed payment that I've found is for Paypal credit from last November. I think Paypal credit is a recent thing, so think this has been incurred since we've been living together.
It's my house, mortgaged in my name only and I won't change that, especially as I have equity of about £70k. He is planning to go self employed so I feel I need to know these things before we consider our future - I don't want him to go self employed before these things are paid off, which I think he should be able to do in a few months, albeit he will need to seriously curb his spending.
You definitely need to deal with this, but I don't think being angry and shaming him will help, particularly if you do love and care about him. Debt with lenders like that is horrific, frightening and really stressful and whilst not helpful, he wouldn't be the first to bury his head in the sand about it. The fact that he's done that is not necessarily a reflection on your relationship or his feelings for you.
If I were you I'd let him know how worried you are about him and that you want to help but to do that you need him to be completely open so that you can make a plan together to deal with it and draw a line under things. He needs to feel that he isn't being judged or shamed for his stupidity in taking out the loans in the first place or letting it get out of hand. Explain that if you can understand the extent of the problem you'll be able to make choices together for your shared future but that in order to do so you need complete and absolute openness and honesty.
My guess is that he may not really know the extent or severity of the issue so you need to allow time to work that out together too. In the mean time, better not to link your accounts or apply for a mortgage.
He broke down and cried because he is massively and profoundly not coping. This is likely weighing on his mind extremely heavily and ruining his life. He is doing his utmost to hide it from you and ludicrously, to hide it from himself. If you love him, you definitely need to caringly sit him down and make him face up to these issues, as they are only going to get worse if he doesn't face up to them and start putting a repayment plan in place.
He may need supervision over what he is spending and its worth finding out if he has any addictions like gambling or if it is just the occasional lunacy. You would be amazed how many people are just babies about money and obsessed with acquiring status symbols they can't afford. And it sends a really good, reassuring message not to accept any expensive, extravagant gifts from him for the forseeable future.
He also needs to know that life with you will not be about bullsh1tting and pretending, but will be about honesty and practicality - that will be a good thing for him to understand before you make any more commitments to each other.
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