or is this employer acting illegally

[diamond49]

My DN has started working part-time in a care home.she starts shift at 2.30 and finishes at 10 pm.she gets a half hour UNPAID break.During this break time the employer will not allow them to leave the premises -they have to sit in the staff room so that the staff ratio is maintained. Is it legal to dictate where employees are during time they are not being paid

[x2boys]

It's a contentious issue it happens all the time in the Nhs.

[Littlefish]

If she is being counted in ratios, then she should be being paid. This is what happens in nursery settings anyway.

Is she a member of a union? Could she call them and check?

[JsOtherHalf]

No breaks at all in care homes in my experience.

[BannedFromNarnia]

There's an overview of the law here - www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/overview

Which is really bloody wank, I get way more than that and my job is physically much easier than care work.

But for the sticky question of where it should be, I suggest phoning ACAS.

Also, please advise her to join a union. This kind of shit treatment is what unions are for - if more people in her type of role were in one they'd have now power to make it better.

[diamond49]

If that is the case jsotherhalf then she is paid below minimum wage

[highinthesky]

The employer is taking the piss (I wonder if previous staff have taken the opportunity during the 1/2 break to walk out and not return?). Care homes have high staff turnovers with good reason.

DN should find another job.

[BarbaraOcumbungles]

I worked nights in a care home for 7 years and we're told we were not allowed to sleep on our unpaid breaks - let alone leave the premises. It's wrong, but it's normal.

We all slept on our breaks anyway, despite being told it was grounds for dismissal - I used to wish they would catch me asleep so that I could drag their arse through the courts! It's not like that now though, tribal costs etc aren't paid.

[diamond49]

This is a large national company too.how do they get away with it?

[Imgrr]

I agree that it's unfair but legal. I had to be in handover meetings 10 mins before and 10 mins after each shift unpaid, thankfully that's now being clamped down on as it brings it below minimum wage
In my experience care work is bloody hard, homes employ the absolute minimum number they can get away with, carers have no time to chat to residents it's just a production line.

[topcat2014]

If you are told what to do during your breaks, then they aren't breaks, surely?

In practice, how often does DN get her break?

If, in fact, she gets to spend half an hour each day fairly uninterupted in a staff room reading a paper or something, then that is probably fine.

If, on the other hand, she is diverted onto work tasks then not so.

Not everyone gets breaks anywhere useful. I work on an industrial estate, so there is nowhere to go. Compare, for example, lorry drivers, who would have to take driving breaks in the nearest layby they find themselves when they reach a time limit.

[diamond49]

But topcat that is different. There might not be anywhere interesting to go on am industrial estate buy you are not being told you can't go out

[topcat2014]

@diamond, that is true - and the OP's case sounds a bit shit - it's just that I can see that the restriction is within the rules.

By contrast, Burger King tried having staff on 'zero hours' waiting in an upstairs room prior to a shift (unpaid), or even being sent off shift, again unpaid, and were found to be in the wrong.

Legislation is generally a 'minimum' so I would think that, provided a proper break is available, there is no law being broken.

Still sounds annoying though.

[Tapandgo]

I think there was a test case on this very issue some weeks ago. I believe the ruling was that if staff are required to be there as part of staff ratio, then they are on duty, and need to be paid.

Unpaid breaks mean you are not employed at that time, so can go and do what you want wherever you want.

Check it out through union and citizens advice will point you to appropriate place to inquire I imagine.

[kali110]

30 mins, fine, unpaid, fine, staying instaff room have no idea about the nhs in care hone so i can't commenton that part.

[BooRadley35]

I used to work for a care home group. The reason they gave for not going off the premises was that if there was an emergency, they would need all staff present e.g fire etc. If they had to evacuate its all hand on deck

[Rinoachicken]

I work in care, day services - no break at all, from 8:30- 4. lunch is with the people we're caring for and you are watching for choking etc so not exactly a break!

[Spikeyball]

If it brings her below minimum wage then they are breaking the law. It's the same as if someone in retail has to be on the premises before their paid hours start. That time needs to be included when making sure they are paid at least minimum wage.

[pinkiepie1]

My dm is a carer, works permanent nights, she gets an hour but doesn't even get that in one go, its ten mins here and there. Then handover ten mins before and after her shift.
They can leave the building but not the grounds.
Only know that from when I lived at home and locked myself out and asked if she could drop me the key off and I had to go and collect it as she couldn't leave.

[Nurse15]

Perfectly normal in care settings - I work in intensive care and we aren't allowed to leave the area on breaks!